MIOSHA inspector------Really?

[Ross/Kzoo]

I'm moving into a new neighborhood and an official Michigan State vehicle stopped by the new house as the Carriage house (detached 3 car garage) was being framed. He told the builder that he lived about 7 or houses away and noticed they weren't wearing their safety harnesses and next time he would ticket them. A friendly way for a neighbor to act-------NOT!

Today my wife was leaving the site with a ladder sticking out the back of her SUV by 3'. He told her to tie a red flag on the end or put it all in her car or he would issue a ticket?

I plan on biting my tongue until the house is finished and then tell him to **** eggs. Isn't this carrying his position a little too far? Does he even have authority over an individual? What would you do?

 

[Tweeker]

He thinks he can patrol the roadways like the police too,wtf! I tried looking up his jurisdiction but was confused. I dont get how he can just roll up randomly and tresspass to cite on a place he has no business being.

 

[koditten]

Sounds like he doesn't have enough to do. Last I knew, all those inspectors were busy responding to call ins. I find it hard to believe that they can find the time to randomly jack someone up. There is enough job sites actually having accident that those guys have plenty to keep themselves busy.

But as for the athourity, ,yeah they got the power.

 

[jhelrey]

I'd tell him to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[malibu101]

I'm moving into a new neighborhood and an official Michigan State vehicle stopped by the new house as the Carriage house (detached 3 car garage) was being framed. He told the builder that he lived about 7 or houses away and noticed they weren't wearing their safety harnesses and next time he would ticket them. A friendly way for a neighbor to act-------NOT!

Today my wife was leaving the site with a ladder sticking out the back of her SUV by 3'. He told her to tie a red flag on the end or put it all in her car or he would issue a ticket?

I plan on biting my tongue until the house is finished and then tell him to **** eggs. Isn't this carrying his position a little too far? Does he even have authority over an individual? What would you do?

Sounds like he doesn't have enough to do. Last I knew, all those inspectors were busy responding to call ins. I find it hard to believe that they can find the time to randomly jack someone up. There is enough job sites actually having accident that those guys have plenty to keep themselves busy.

But as for the athourity, ,yeah they got the power.

See the 2 comments I highlighted above.

Koditten or anybody- Do you really KNOW that they can enforce OSHA rules on a "Joe Homeowner"?
Like your wife, or you, driving your personal vehicle non-commercially?
That sounds kinda stretching for their powers.

 

[BillK]

Sounds to me like he is just doing his job, imagine that ?????

 

[brownbagg]

the state osha people here can only ticket, commercial and industrial , they leave home building alone, although i feel they need to go after them too but they can't touch individual

 

[koditten]

Actually, I don't know if they have any clout when it comes to dealing with private indeviduals. My experience comes from the workplace.

When you notice the CEO of a major corperation asking the state inspector if he wants coffee, you tend to take those guys pretty serious.

 

[SiGmA_X]

Does OSHA really not oversee residential construction? OSHA.gov says for residential construction to contact them if things are in violation, so I would assume they have some jurisdiction.

E: This article implies that they have explicit jurisdiction, too: http://ohsonline.com/articles/2012/11/01/osha-residential-construction-regulations-compliance.aspx

 

[Joe Reed]

Welcome to the neighborhood. Just pray he's not President of the HOA

 

[NUTTSGT]

I believe I would make an inquiry with his superiors. If he is off the clock, tell him he is trespassing and that you will call the police.

 

[Stuart in MN]

If you have a contractor working on the carriage house, he was doing his job to give them a warning about wearing safety harnesses. As for your wife and the ladder, call MIOSHA at 1-800-866-4674 and ask if their inspectors have jurisdiction over homeowners working on their own home. Having said that, she probably should have had a flag on the ladder.

 

[Architorture]

OSHA can't do squat to private individuals....at most he might be able claim that it was a violation taking place on the work site and penalize the builder as he is the responsible party with control over the worksite.

OSHA would occasionally become an issue when I'd do project inspections as the architect. The GC would always be worried about what shoes we were wearing, our hard hats and especially when we'd get on the roof. I've been caught once or twice on the wrong side of the temporary roof barrier by the OSHA folks...no citation for me, but the GC got a warning

 

[rslaback]

I believe I would make an inquiry with his superiors. If he is off the clock, tell him he is trespassing and that you will call the police.

And how do you suppose that might end? I bet the GC would prefer not to handle it this way.

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

I believe I would make an inquiry with his superiors. If he is off the clock, tell him he is trespassing and that you will call the police.

Something like that may take place.

Stuart, 3'? Her trailer hitch almost sticks out father than that.

 

[DekeT]

You are at a new house site. The inspector doesn't know that your wife is not part of the crew for the contractor and he sees her breaking rules. Why should he not mention a ticket is possible? You people need to calm down.


From MIOSHA,
"A citation may be issued to any employer who exposes their employee(s) to an unsafe condition. To avoid a citation, an employer must ensure their employees are not exposed to the unsafe condition by eliminating the condition, protecting their employees, or removing their employees from exposure to the unsafe condition."

 

[jimindm]

I certainly would make a few calls and see if he is overstepping his bounds. If he is a neighbor, I would also take a plate of cookies down to him/family and introduce yourselves.

One thing to keep in mind, when talking to anybody about the situation keep in mind that what they are telling you is how they interpret the laws and regulations. It may not be how this guy interprets it.

Years ago I drove a flatbed for a towing service. Mostly out of town trips, but with in the state. The DOT office in town, that we got our CDL from, told us we did not have to worry about the hazmat endorsement. Most all of the trucks had a gas can on them, for emergency road service. Can not tell you how many drivers were stopped and asked why no hazmat endorsement. We got by for a while just pouring the gas in the truck, or the vehicle we were towing. That usually confused the officers, but it got us out of warning and tickets. It was not long and we all had our hazmat endorsement, even though the counter help told us we did not need it and we were throwing our money away.

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

And how do you suppose that might end? I bet the GC would prefer not to handle it this way.

After the GC is finished this may be instituted.

The initial safety violation may have been warranted. The latest incident seemed to me be a "Barney Fife" moment.

 

[muddinguy]

The workers he can get, your wife is non commercial tell him to **** a fat one!

 

[Stuart in MN]

Something like that may take place.

Stuart, 3'? Her trailer hitch almost sticks out father than that.

I did some looking online, and it turns out the limit in Michigan is 4 feet - if a load is longer than that it needs a flag, if less than 4 feet it does not.

 

[Scott r c]

Ticket for a ladder sticking out. I'd tell him to **** off. We they come on a jobsite you can make them leave, telling them to come back with a search warrant, or so I have been told. Only problem is when they come back it would get expensive.

 

[Elvenhome21]

Ticket for a ladder sticking out. I'd tell him to **** off. We they come on a jobsite you can make them leave, telling them to come back with a search warrant, or so I have been told. Only problem is when they come back it would get expensive.

OSHA dont need a warrant. they can walk into anyplace that has compensated workers at any time for any reason and no notice.

 

[Pack Rat]

When you notice the CEO of a major corperation asking the state inspector if he wants coffee, you tend to take those guys pretty serious.

Are you talking about DOW?
When I lived in Midland MIOSHA was always in the plant looking for something.

 

[plow]

I certainly would make a few calls and see if he is overstepping his bounds. If he is a neighbor, I would also take a plate of cookies down to him/family and introduce yourselves.

One thing to keep in mind, when talking to anybody about the situation keep in mind that what they are telling you is how they interpret the laws and regulations. It may not be how this guy interprets it.

Years ago I drove a flatbed for a towing service. Mostly out of town trips, but with in the state. The DOT office in town, that we got our CDL from, told us we did not have to worry about the hazmat endorsement. Most all of the trucks had a gas can on them, for emergency road service. Can not tell you how many drivers were stopped and asked why no hazmat endorsement. We got by for a while just pouring the gas in the truck, or the vehicle we were towing. That usually confused the officers, but it got us out of warning and tickets. It was not long and we all had our hazmat endorsement, even though the counter help told us we did not need it and we were throwing our money away.

That would fall under "Materials of Trade" and is exempt from Hazmat requirements..........Assuming we're talking a 5 gallon or so gas can.

 

[DPG]

I'm moving into a new neighborhood and an official Michigan State vehicle stopped by the new house as the Carriage house (detached 3 car garage) was being framed. He told the builder that he lived about 7 or houses away. What would you do?

Bang his wife.

 

[SilverSS1969]

I think he would have the right to tell your contractors they need to have the proper PPE. They cant go after individual but did he know your wife was the home owner? Is it possible he thought she was part of the construction crew?

I believe Michigan law does state any object more them two feet from the back of a vehicle does need to have a red flag. I usually carry a few red shop rags and put them on the back of the steel or 2x on the back of my truck to be on the safe side.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

That would fall under "Materials of Trade" and is exempt from Hazmat requirements..........Assuming we're talking a 5 gallon or so gas can.

AFAIK, carrying 2 or less portable fuel cans doesn't require HAZMAT certs and the maximum size a portable fuel can that can be filled at a filling station is 6 gallons.

Tommy

 

[Rock knocker]

OSHA dont need a warrant. they can walk into anyplace that has compensated workers at any time for any reason and no notice.

You are so wrong. No member of the government can come onto your property without permission or exigent circumstances.

OSHA usually does not have a warrant for an inspection when they first arrive and may not conduct warrantless inspections without an employer’s consent. It may, however, inspect after acquiring a search warrant or its equivalent based on administrative probable cause.

http://web.princeton.edu/sites/ehs/healthsafetyguide/F1.htm

 

[LS6 Tommy]

You are so wrong. No member of the government can come onto your property without permission or exigent circumstances.



http://web.princeton.edu/sites/ehs/healthsafetyguide/F1.htm

An OSHA inspector can enter private property without a warrant if a violation is in plain view.

Game Wardens can enter private property at any time, without a warrant.

Tommy

 

[Thumper68]

Just had a conversation with the local osha guy a few months ago, I was standing on the top of a 4 foot ladder my upper half through the ceiling he called me down and started giving me a dressing down until I told him I was a self employed contractor, as the boss/owner/tech I can tell osha to **** eggs when it comes to my safety on the other side if I had an employee in the same situation I would have gotten a warning or fine for letting someone not under my direct supervision break a osha rule.

I googled the hang over for MI and I saw that it is the same as MN 4 feet or less so no flag needed at 3 feet, might be a good idea though, I will put a flag on under 2 feet if it can be hit by a passerby, on my roof rack I don't bother since you would have to be 7 feet tall to come in contact with it.

Not to mention I don't think a osha guy can give you a ticket for a driving violation.

Sounds to me like the guy has the typical power trip.

My suggestion for dealing with him in the future?


Bang his wife!

 

[G_P]

OSHA has no authority over your wife, her vehicle, or what she is hauling.

 

[logixjock]

OSHA dont need a warrant. they can walk into anyplace that has compensated workers at any time for any reason and no notice.

Absolutely not true, just a VERY bad idea to make them go get a warrant.

Straight from their website:

"Employers have the right to require compliance officers to obtain an inspection warrant before entering the worksite."

 

[Rock knocker]

An OSHA inspector can enter private property without a warrant if a violation is in plain view

That may or may not be true, but it would fall under the exigent circumstances-hot pursuit rulings.

Game Wardens can enter private property at any time, without a warrant.

Not correct for the west. If they see a violation, they can enter the property to enforce the law. This would be an exigent circumstance. They also have the right to perform warranties searches of private property with probable cause, but with large limits to this power. Washington is common among the west:

RCW 77.15.095

Fish and wildlife officers and ex officio fish and wildlife officers may make a reasonable search without warrant of a vessel, conveyances, vehicles, containers, packages, or other receptacles for fish, seaweed, shellfish, and wildlife which they have reason to believe contain evidence of a violation of law or rules adopted pursuant to this title and seize evidence as needed for law enforcement. This authority does not extend to quarters in a boat, building, or other property used exclusively as a private domicile, does not extend to transitory residences in which a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy, and does not allow search and seizure without a warrant if the thing or place is protected from search without warrant within the meaning of Article I, section 7 of the state Constitution. Seizure of property as evidence of a crime does not preclude seizure of the property for forfeiture as authorized by law.

 

[Rock knocker]

Absolutely not true, just a VERY bad idea to make them go get a warrant

Yes that

 

[Architorture]

I've done design work at a couple of places that just flat out refuse to allow inspectors into the facilities...one is an underground storage facility and the other was a large pharma/research facility...each just paid the fines because it was considered too big of a liability to have unvetted inspectors walking through areas with highly sensitive and expensive projects going on.

 

[Slednut]

Unless the guy is just a jerk, he must have a motive. Something about the new construction has put ire in this guy’s mind. The noise, parking, jealousy or maybe he is just a jerk.

 

[rslaback]

Unless the guy is just a jerk, he must have a motive. Something about the new construction has put ire in this guy’s mind. The noise, parking, jealousy or maybe he is just a jerk.

Or maybe he just believes in what he does. It is the Michigan Occupational Safety and Health Administration. The regulations which he is tasked with enforcing, like them or hate them, were written to keep people safe and not dead.

You do also need to consider that he very well could have an aspect of cover your *** syndrome. Say someone gets hurt on the OP's garage. Do you really think that no one is going to ask Mr. Inspector if he ever noticed anything seeings as he is in the area regularly?

 

[jake00]

Wanting to ticket the wife? Sounds like he's "impersonating a police officer "

 

[ford33]

Your interpretation of his actions may be different than his intent. Sounds like he was pointing to a safety issue with the lack of harness on the workers. He was being helpful.

He's your neighbor now until you move from this house. Do you really want to start trouble in your new neighborhood? Do you need that additional stress in your life now?

He may be viewed by others in the neighborhood as a knowledgeable and caring person. You, on the other hand, are new to this neighborhood and an unknown. Who do you think your neighbors will side with if rumors start about your construction safety and build quality?

Welcome to the neighborhood or not! You decide.

 

[RivennHewn]

Or, ya'll could just do things the right way.

Why take the chance of somebody getting hurt?

How would you feel if someone fell to their death on your new garage floor?

As an inspector, he has probably seen way too much of the ugly side of being careless.

maybe he just wants his new neighbor to avoid any problems.

He could have written up your contractor, and cost him thousands.