MIOSHA inspector------Really?

[koditten]

Are you talking about DOW?
When I lived in Midland MIOSHA was always in the plant looking for something.

Partialy correct.

 

[stikman56]

Something like that may take place.



Stuart, 3'? Her trailer hitch almost sticks out father than that.

You're allowed up to 4' ( past the tail lights I believe is how they base it) with nothing whatsoever . 4'and beyond needs a red flag, lights after dark.

 

[jimindm]

That would fall under "Materials of Trade" and is exempt from Hazmat requirements..........Assuming we're talking a 5 gallon or so gas can.

It was only two gallons. Like I said its all about interpretation of the rule and regulations. Yea you can fight it, take time off to fight the ticket, listen to their speech while writing it, etc. It was just easier to get the endorsement. Whether we needed them or not, a few of the officers on the street thought we did, so we got them.

You can play monday morning quarterback all day long. This is the life this guy will be living until one or the other moves. You can choose to fight it or you can choose to live with it.

Some times you just have to pick the battles that you fight.

 

[nehog]

I'm moving into a new neighborhood and an official Michigan State vehicle stopped by the new house as the Carriage house (detached 3 car garage) was being framed. He told the builder that he lived about 7 or houses away and noticed they weren't wearing their safety harnesses and next time he would ticket them. A friendly way for a neighbor to act-------NOT!

Today my wife was leaving the site with a ladder sticking out the back of her SUV by 3'. He told her to tie a red flag on the end or put it all in her car or he would issue a ticket?

I plan on biting my tongue until the house is finished and then tell him to **** eggs. Isn't this carrying his position a little too far? Does he even have authority over an individual? What would you do?

What part of obeying the laws is unclear?

The contractors are required to use safety equipment. It's not optional, the contractor screwed up. Say a worker fell without that safety equipment: guess who's name will be on the lawsuit in addition to the contractor's name?

Any load that extends beyond a certain distance (varies by state) must have a red flag so other drivers, pedestrians etc, will notice the extended load. He was doing your wife a favor: a police officer might have written a citation. Or she might have had an accident and found herself facing a lawsuit.

Go over and thank him for looking out for you. And tell that contractor to start following the rules.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

That may or may not be true, but it would fall under the exigent circumstances-hot pursuit rulings.




Not correct for the west. If they see a violation, they can enter the property to enforce the law. This would be an exigent circumstance. They also have the right to perform warranties searches of private property with probable cause, but with large limits to this power.

The way I recall the text from the OSHA site reads it's "in plain sight" OR "exigent circumstances". I could be wrong.

In NJ they can climb right over your fence posted "Private Property" and tour your land. No warrant neccessary.


Tommy

 

[CNGsaves]

Have to agree with "Use Sugar" . . . instead of "Bleach" on the inspector noting safety violations for harnessed workers.

Thank the inspector, and give Written Note to GC that his crew was observed not using proper safety gear. Homeowner needs to CYA all around.

For the wifey ladder incident, that's borderline but again keep it positive and thank the guy and move on with your life . . . will be better in the long run.

SIDE STORY: My brother is carpenter in AZ and often has to work with "less than desirable" other workers on the jobsite. You can bet they've worked without safety gear if flat roof, etc. However, one day a hack worker had hit the hooch (alcohol) over lunch as he was unstable up on the roof and fell about 10 ft. Luckily he wasn't hurt too bad (bruised up and partial concussion) but done for day and fired. Much better to force wearing harness than risk lawsuit.

 

[Koken]

OSHA is responsible for job safety. If they witness someone on the roof without a required harness, they can enter onto the property. If they are conducting a routine inspection of lets say a high-rise building. Yes, the owner can insist that an inspection warrant be obtained since no violations were observed. That would be stupid, because the warrant will be granted, your local code/building officials would get involved and put a stop on all construction, workers comp will pay you a visit, etc. Your contractor would have his licenses, and those of his sub-contractors checked. Violations would prompt inspections of other job sites for that contractor. Your contractor could lose employees overnight, and your contractor may even walk off the job. Starting to see the picture. If your wife was driving down the street, he could not enforce anything. On the site, violations of carrying equipment is within his scope. And I won't even mention immigration problems.

Calm down and let your contractor deal with it. He does it all the time. The fact that he lives down the street means nothing. Their areas are large and he might be the only one assigned to your area. Thank him for what he has done. He has done you a big favor. Like someone else mentioned, if a worker falls off your roof and his employer has no worker's comp, guess who is sued then. Become good friends. He can save you a lot of grief.

 

[Koken]

If they inspect and all is good, they likely will not be back for follow-up inspections because you/contractor have a good reputation.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

or you could do the unthinkable....actually TALK to him, introduce yourself. *GASP*

 

[Rock knocker]

n NJ they can climb right over your fence posted "Private Property" and tour your land. No warrant neccessary.

Who is the "they" we are talking about here?

 

[Diesel Dan]

or you could do the unthinkable....actually TALK to him, introduce yourself. *GASP*

WHOA!
No need to get all crazy and what not!

Since you're new just bang everybody's wife on the street.

 

[lksdrinker]

What part of obeying the laws is unclear?

Say a worker fell without that safety equipment: guess who's name will be on the lawsuit in addition to the contractor's name?

I dont know the specifics in the state where this happened; but in NY you cannot directly sue your own employer. So when an employee gets hurt on a site they sue the building/property owner. Hopefully that building owner had someone review the contracts carefully and is indemnified by the GC and that homeowner can then pull the GC into the suit. But the home/property owner still bears some of the burden simply b/c it happened on their property.

I'm not understanding why this is a big deal at all. Sounds like the inspector was nice enough to simply point out what he could do since he saw unsafe conditions. Would you be mad at a neighbor who was a police officer if he reminded you not to drive home drunk from the bar rather than just arresting you for a DWI?

Its a lot easier to smile and nod and thank the guy than to start a lifelong war with a neighbor.

 

[Zeke]

I did some looking online, and it turns out the limit in Michigan is 4 feet - if a load is longer than that it needs a flag, if less than 4 feet it does not.

Glad you looked that up. It is my understanding as well. 4 feet from the taillights to the end of the object. This avoids confusion as to where to start the measurement, e.g., from the end of a trailer hitch. Needs to have a tail and brake light if transported after dusk.

 

[Jswain]

So tie off a red flag to any loads hanging out of the trucks in the future, and make sure the guys are wearing their proper PPE at all times. Pretty standard, or get in a ******* match and watch him slow down production everyday. Easier to be polite whether you feel he is being a **** or not

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Who is the "they" we are talking about here?

Game Wardens. Sorry. I posted two separate responses for the two quotes, but it ended up looking like one reponse.

Tommy

 

[Rock knocker]

In NJ they can climb right over your fence posted "Private Property" and tour your land. No warrant neccessary.

Probably, but if the sign said instead "Private Property - No Trespassing" they would need probable cause

 

[billspit]

I don't know about MI, but a company has to have X number of employees to come under OSHA. Your contractor may or may not come under OSHA.

The inspector may have thought your wife was part of the crew, but he has no authority over a private individual. On that issue tell him to pound sand and leave your wife alone.

The guy sounds to me like a bully. Remember BTK? That's how he was.

 

[Halfdawg]

When, not if, you bang his wife make sure all safety procedures are fallowed.

Hard had, safety glasses, harness, barricades, signage, reflective vest, ,,,, everything!

 

[Arps]

He is going to be a great neighbor.

 

[Rock knocker]

I don't know about MI, but a company has to have X number of employees to come under OSHA. Your contractor may or may not come under OSHA.

That's in reference to some record keeping requirements. The Federal OSHA ( and hence the entire nation ) minimum number of employees for OSHA work site safety is n=1. Do you really think that because you have less than 10 ( or what ever arbitrary number you think it is ) that work site safety doesn't apply and you can run your job like it was in Nairobi or something?

 

[Ray-CA]

...Today my wife was leaving the site with a ladder sticking out the back of her SUV by 3'. He told her to tie a red flag on the end or put it all in her car or he would issue a ticket?

I can't find the appropriate section in the MI vehicle code, but in CA you don't need a red flag on a load to the rear until you are 4-feet or more from the rear of the vehicle. 3-feet you should be okay without the flag.

The other issue is the Inspector. Do they have peace officer powers/authority and the ability to issue tickets for vehicle code infractions? A simple call to either the local MI Highway Patrol/State Police office and/or to the inspectors office should clear this up.

Good luck,

Ray

FOUND IT:

http://mdotcf.state.mi.us/public/webforms/public/T-1.pdf

Overhang beyond rear of vehicles .....................................................................................Any amount is permissible if the legal length is not exceeded. However, if this overhang is 4 feet or more, there shall be displayed on the extreme rear of such a load a 12 - inch red square flag in the daytime and a red light or lantern at night.

 

[Diesel Dan]

The inspector may have thought your wife was part of the crew, but he has no authority over a private individual. On that issue tell him to pound sand and leave your wife alone.

Maybe he's a member of this site and was thinking "bang his wife"???

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ Now THAT's what I call an Inspector !! . .

 

[91FE]

An OSHA inspector can enter private property without a warrant if a violation is in plain view.

Game Wardens can enter private property at any time, without a warrant.

Tommy

Not true.

I'm currently 2 days into my 30 hour OSHA class for NYC construction. As we were just taught, if they happen to be going by my job site and see an issue...

1. It is their obligation to stop.
2. They must ask for, and be grated permission to enter the site.
3. I have 30 minutes to get my ducks in a row and let them in.
4. If I turn them away, they'll be back in a hurry with a court order.

They have no jurisdiction over joe-home-owner. Being your safety conscience neighbor, I'd thank him for the advice concerning your wife and make nice. If he mentioned the ticket BS again, tell him to FO and get a life.

 

[chris142]

Barney Fife on Steroids

 

[Rock knocker]

http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/23-fish-and-game-wild-birds-and-animals/10-20.html

Law giving New Jersey F&G the right to warrantless searches. It certainly does not seem to apply to real property

 

[GN4WHLN]

If you're tired of it, get hold of his supervisor and make a formal, written complaint that he is using his position to harass you. Where I live, public employees are all licensed by the state and a complaint against your license is a big deal. My guess is he will go away and unless he is stupid will take care in avoiding you.

 

[GN4WHLN]

I can't find the appropriate section in the MI vehicle code, but in CA you don't need a red flag on a load to the rear until you are 4-feet or more from the rear of the vehicle. 3-feet you should be okay without the flag.

The other issue is the Inspector. Do they have peace officer powers/authority and the ability to issue tickets for vehicle code infractions? A simple call to either the local MI Highway Patrol/State Police office and/or to the inspectors office should clear this up.

Good luck,

Ray

FOUND IT:



http://mdotcf.state.mi.us/public/webforms/public/T-1.pdf

Overhang beyond rear of vehicles .....................................................................................Any amount is permissible if the legal length is not exceeded. However, if this overhang is 4 feet or more, there shall be displayed on the extreme rear of such a load a 12 - inch red square flag in the daytime and a red light or lantern at night.

My guess is he has no right to enforce that as he is not a sworn officer and that violation is vehicle code. I would bet he is categorized as a code enforcement officer.

 

[Nessal]

Wooohooo the government to the rescue to keep us safe!

 

[DekeT]

If you're tired of it, get hold of his supervisor and make a formal, written complaint that he is using his position to harass you. Where I live, public employees are all licensed by the state and a complaint against your license is a big deal. My guess is he will go away and unless he is stupid will take care in avoiding you.

Or maybe the supervisor shows up and double kicks your ***. It's what I did as a supervisor, support my people doing their jobs.

 

[DekeT]

Wooohooo the government to the rescue to keep us safe!

Thousands of people have died on the job because of dangerous situations employers put people in. Workplace safety has probably kept you alive. Selfish you are. And a historic pleb.

 

[ozyborn]

If you're tired of it, get hold of his supervisor and make a formal, written complaint that he is using his position to harass you. Where I live, public employees are all licensed by the state and a complaint against your license is a big deal. My guess is he will go away and unless he is stupid will take care in avoiding you.

This is the way I would deal with him. Not the way I would like to, but the proper way. I would rather fire off a round out of the shotgun and tell him to go screw himself.

 

[mygarageone]

I'm moving into a new neighborhood and an official Michigan State vehicle stopped by the new house as the Carriage house (detached 3 car garage) was being framed. He told the builder that he lived about 7 or houses away and noticed they weren't wearing their safety harnesses and next time he would ticket them. A friendly way for a neighbor to act-------NOT!

Today my wife was leaving the site with a ladder sticking out the back of her SUV by 3'. He told her to tie a red flag on the end or put it all in her car or he would issue a ticket?

I plan on biting my tongue until the house is finished and then tell him to **** eggs. Isn't this carrying his position a little too far? Does he even have authority over an individual? What would you do?

Last time I dealt with them , they have no say over private individuals or one man shops.

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

While you could probably go to their agency management and find that this person is working outside of their hours and jurisdiction, which can become huge liabilities for that inspector and agency with lawsuit potential, it's more likely they will come down on that agent with a reprimand.

And then that agent will become VERY interested in every aspect of your home or operation that they have authority over. You know, you didn't inspect the air pressure of your tires before leaving. That's an equipment violation. And your windshield is dirty. Another infraction. Really, you shouldn't be on the road at all. Let's just start adding up all the citations, shall we?

I'd ignore them, get on with your life. Once your construction is done, they won't have any reason to be around and will lose interest. Don't give them power over you by playing their game.

 

[mygarageone]

My company was doing a large project in chesinnig mi , the miosha guy came in , called us to a meeting . He said , I will be on this job for the next 2 wks and he said I promise you no one will get away with out a violation ! Of course very one scrambled to get everything in order.
Our company and the electrical contractor came out clean but then he came back one more time and both of us got hit , petty **** but he got us. Us for a very obscure issue that no one ever heard of and the electrical firm for a hard hat painted silver ? He claimed was able to cause an elec short if it hit a bare wire ?

 

[Nessal]

Thousands of people have died on the job because of dangerous situations employers put people in. Workplace safety has probably kept you alive. Selfish you are. And a historic pleb.

Haven't been hurt yet because I use something called common sense. And if I'm unsure of something, I take responsibility to find out before I do it. But sure, keep touting that horn. Ironic you would call someone a plebeian. You're such a hero to everyones rescue.

 

[91 zeee]

while he is probably right, he still sounds like a jerk on a power trip. He didn't need to threaten tickets just yet; maybe he should have introduced himself to the new neighbors and made a couple polite suggestions.
Sounds like a 'fun' neighbor; good luck. When you cut your grass, make sure to wear eye protection, hearing protection, and steel toe boots so you don't 'get a ticket'.

 

[CJM8515]

An OSHA inspector can enter private property without a warrant if a violation is in plain view.

Game Wardens can enter private property at any time, without a warrant.

Tommy

Yep they can do that. In NJ where I live they do it, but in PA where I have a cabin they wont step foot anywhere but state land. Reason-several turned up missing and NO ONE said a word. Course thats backwoods country folk for ya. Its nice, they accepted my family since we have had a cabin for 75 years there being an outsider isnt a good thing around them parts.

 

[GuyllFyre]

Wait, is this a scene from "My Life as a House?"

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

while he is probably right, he still sounds like a jerk on a power trip. He didn't need to threaten tickets just yet; maybe he should have introduced himself to the new neighbors and made a couple polite suggestions.
:

I agree. My problem was the lack of tact in dealing with these situations. I was in a similar position when I worked for the power company for 38 years. I generally left the job site with the customer informed but not ticked off at me. He must just not be a people person.