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Mitsubishi hyperheat mini-split (multi-split) questions

theoldwizard1

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A properly ducted central system with high SEER and high AFUE is efficient and maintains the entire "envelope", keeping everything at a constant reasonable temp...
A well designed house does not necessarily NEED to have all rooms maintained at similar temperature. To get a high SEER on a central system, the duct work must be well sealed and insulated.

Zoning a central system is difficult/expensive.
 
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Jackfre

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A well designed house does not necessarily NEED to have all rooms maintained at similar temperature. To get a high SEER on a central system, the duct work must be well sealed and insulated.

Zoning a central system is difficult/expensive.

This to my mind and experience is the issue. My basic contention is that the unitary manuf can put all the technology they want in the equipment, BUT, between that equipment and the homeowners comfort is a completely inadequate duct system. The equipment manuf are strapped over this issue. Since ‘15, the National Codes require a max duct leakage of 6%. I am not aware of exactly how many states are actually enforcing this code. Even if they are, you have to look at ALL the duct work that has been installed prior to that time. The DOE has said the average residential duct system looses between 18 & 42% of its energy in duct losses. I represented duct sealant manuf for over 15 yrs and that business was almost 100% commercial. Inverter equipment on ducted systems, especially on a retro-fit application will be problematic due, not to the equipment, but to the deficient ducting.
 

yeldogt

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This to my mind and experience is the issue. My basic contention is that the unitary manuf can put all the technology they want in the equipment, BUT, between that equipment and the homeowners comfort is a completely inadequate duct system. The equipment manuf are strapped over this issue. Since ‘15, the National Codes require a max duct leakage of 6%. I am not aware of exactly how many states are actually enforcing this code. Even if they are, you have to look at ALL the duct work that has been installed prior to that time. The DOE has said the average residential duct system looses between 18 & 42% of its energy in duct losses. I represented duct sealant manuf for over 15 yrs and that business was almost 100% commercial. Inverter equipment on ducted systems, especially on a retro-fit application will be problematic due, not to the equipment, but to the deficient ducting.


In a funny turn of events -- the new multispead and variable speed equipment make zoning easier and fix many of the undersized duct work problems in existing homes. I grew up in a zoned house -- up/down/large addition .. so I understood done correctly it could provide superior comfort. I have zoned almost all my projects .. it's super easy with the new equipment.

Putting a full inverter unit in a large house and expecting the far away rooms to get proper flow on low speed is not going to work iMO.

I went with Carrier back in mid 00's because of the Infinity zoning -- that was only two speed. I stuck with Carrier when I did the last two 5 speeds. From what I have been told the Trane zoning is also very good now. When you start up the Carrier system it actually learns the ductwork .. it's really slick. I have it set for continuous circulation -- it's really cool --- it modulates all of the dampers throughout the day based on the three zones. The constant circulation fan speed is very low ... coupled with 25% capacity.
 

eddieK

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Nampa Idaho
A well designed house does not necessarily NEED to have all rooms maintained at similar temperature. To get a high SEER on a central system, the duct work must be well sealed and insulated.

Zoning a central system is difficult/expensive.

Duct systems that are not duct sealed must be when a new install is done, in fact in my zone there is HERS rater testing required before and after install.

A well designed house...in nirvana I guess you can overcome physics. Not heating a space when you heat others creates a cold sinc, same thing with cooling, just the opposite.

Insulation and proper fenestration slows down heat loss and heat gain from outside, not conditioning a space inside causes infiltration.

Unless you envelope every room and weather seal every door and never open them.

I rarely recommend zoning central systems, because of the room required around the equipment to do so and the initial cost(although that is getting better now). I do argue that the miniscule difference in energy used to condition the entire protected area inside the home verses zoning (except for different levels - where heat gain and loss is dramatically different per level) is well worth it because of infiltration.

The inherent problem with mini splits is that the they are essentially throw away systems, repairs after 7 plus years are expensive and in many cases parts are simply not available.

There's an old saying that applies to high tech..."trick parts have trick prices and trick problems".

Even high SEER central systems are now prone to this, recently replaced a blower and circuit board in a Rheem 95 plus 16 SEER unit just out of warranty, that $400.00 blower replacement (old cost)cost the homeowner over $1,500.00.
 
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yeldogt

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Duct systems that are not duct sealed must be when a new install is done, in fact in my zone there is HERS rater testing required before and after install.

A well designed house...in nirvana I guess you can overcome physics. Not heating a space when you heat others creates a cold sinc, same thing with cooling, just the opposite.

Insulation and proper fenestration slows down heat loss and heat gain from outside, not conditioning a space inside causes infiltration.

Unless you envelope every room and weather seal every door and never open them.

I rarely recommend zoning central systems, because of the room required around the equipment to do so and the initial cost(although that is getting better now). I do argue that the miniscule difference in energy used to condition the entire protected area inside the home verses zoning (except for different levels - where heat gain and loss is dramatically different per level) is well worth it because of infiltration.

The inherent problem with mini splits is that the they are essentially throw away systems, repairs after 7 plus years are expensive and in many cases parts are simply not available.

There's an old saying that applies to high tech..."trick parts have trick prices and trick problems".

Even high SEER central systems are now prone to this, recently replaced a blower and circuit board in a Rheem 95 plus 16 SEER unit just out of warranty, that $400.00 blower replacement (old cost)cost the homeowner over $1,500.00.

This is why when building new insulation and sealing up is so important. I'm not one for doing setbacks .. but in every houses have owned -- even very well insulated ones there is basic physics at work. Why try and keep an unoccupied second floor at 72 during the day in the summer -- or the lower level at night. Zoning allows those subtle changes w/o any loss of comfort or huge setbacks throughout the whole house.

Time will tell on the availability of parts -- I think that hurt LG. My LG was installed in 2007 -- Fujitsu in 2012 ... the first Mitsubishi was in 2015. Noe have been touched ..except filters.
 

Jackfre

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YD, After several years I do think you will be surprised at the performance increase if you pull the entire cover off the unit and clean the coil. All the build-up seems to happen on the back 40% of the coil that you cannot see. Also, a good cleaning of the fan blades will yield noticeable results.
 

yeldogt

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Jan 2, 2012
Messages
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YD, After several years I do think you will be surprised at the performance increase if you pull the entire cover off the unit and clean the coil. All the build-up seems to happen on the back 40% of the coil that you cannot see. Also, a good cleaning of the fan blades will yield noticeable results.

We have only done the filters and the front ..
 
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