Modine Hot Dawg heater smell

[KVF]

Hi,
I see some threads about this but not exactly what I'm experiencing, so here it goes.

I moved into my new apartment about 3 weeks ago.
Every time I turn on the heater it stinks to the point I feel sick. Strongest in colder temperatures - early morning.
After PG&E (detected gas leak), Kruse Heating Plumbing & Cooling (capped & pressurized the pipes, found nothing), 2 building maintenance guys, my property manager, and one of the building owners have all come by over the last couple weeks to work with me to try to fix this issue = no solution, yet.
So far they say there's no problem being detected.
The smoke/carbon monoxide detectors have been tested, seem to be working as they should, nothing detected.
Everyone is continuing to work with me to find the source of this smell

There is a predominantly bleach-like smell, plus a whiff of something I can't put my finger on, not exactly gas, coming from the exhaust enclosure traveling through the upstairs bedroom (pictures included - the vent in the bedroom floor is nonfunctional).
Downstairs where the heater is it smells like the usual warm dust.

Apparently, I'm one of 3 people who can actually smell this "bleachy-gas", and the only one that smells it the strongest/ headaches/ nausea/ coughing.
Yesterday was the worst, went to Urgent Care but it was about 3 hours after I left my apartment & they said blood tests would take a week to schedule so we don't know if I was actually poisoned or not but I had the symptoms.
I'm staying at a friends place for now.

Is this a normal smell from these Hot Dawg heaters, or what should we be looking for to fix this?
Please help, Thanks

 

[Gizzi]

Is it a brand new heater? If so, there is an oil coating on the heat exchanger that should be burned off on start up with the windows open. If it's an old heater, I would check the flue and heat exchanger for holes/cracks. Otherwise it could be another source in the apartment making those fumes.

 

[KVF]

Hi Gizzi,
My property manager says it’s about five years old. And I was reading online that that bleachy smell might be ozone? not sure yet I’m waiting to hear back from the guy who installed it to look at it

 

[ChefRex]

Did you boil it and put ketchup on it?

Spoiler

sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[PoorUB]

A cracked or rotted out heat exchanger makes a weird smell, something like burning electrical wiring, similar to what you describe. Has anyone looked the heater over well? Hot Dawg heat exchangers are pretty durable, but I wonder if it isn't the cause. I have seen more than one tech miss it!

I also would take a good look at the b-vent and look up through it and make sure it isn't rotten, or partially plugged up. They have pressure switches that should keep them from running, but I have seen them run with almost completely plugged venting.

We had a customer call with trouble from a Reznor unit heater. It would run inconsistently. I sent a tech over to see what was going on. He was there for a short time and fixed something, but I forget what. The next day we get a call again, I send the same guy over. Third day I get called again. This time I go over, fire up the heater, notice a weird smell and start looking it over while it was running and found a couple small rusted out spots in the heat exchanger.

 

[KVF]

Hi PoorUB,
No one has looked at it really thoroughly yet. Waiting for the guy who installed it to take a closer look, hopefully next week. I’m not smelling any like electrical burning, just bleach or chlorine.

 

[TonyG109]

"These unit heaters are certifed (sic) as Utility heaters and are intended for the heating of non-living spaces that are attached to, adjacent to, or part of a structure that contains space for family living quarters. They are not intended to be the primary source of heat in residential applications." Quoted directly from a Modine Installation and Service manual for the model HD and HDB heaters. Not sure if this applies to your case, but I think it does.

Now, the above doesn't solve the issue of what the odor is but... what the heck is that white stuff dripping down the outside of the exhaust flue??? Is this something new? Was is recently "painted"? Isn't this where you think the odor is coming from? I know someone else saw this and was dying to ask but didn't...

 

[KVF]

Hi TonyG109,
Thank you for the "quote"...trying to find where it says that in the manual...? I'm not at my place right now otherwise I'd double check the model number.

https://www.modinehvac.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Hot-Dawg-Power-Vented.pdf

The building is live/work zoned. There have been no complaints from other tenants about these heaters as far as I know, everyone I've talked to seems happy in this building. The property manager & building owners + team are being good about getting this taken care of. I think this is an isolated issue. Maybe it just needs a repair or replacement.

I was wondering about the painted exhaust flue too. It doesn't smell like paint to me.

Thanks everyone for the feedback (ChefRex - haha but no.)

Maybe I posted this too soon. I think I'm going to pause this post for now. I'm going to wait & see what the installer says upon a more closer look next week.

 

[KVF]

https://www.modinehvac.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Hot-Dawg-Power-Vented.pdf

this one says "All models approved for use in California by the CEC and in Massachusetts. Unit heater is certified for residential and commercial applications."

 

[paulsomlo]

Now, the above doesn't solve the issue of what the odor is but... what the heck is that white stuff dripping down the outside of the exhaust flue??? Is this something new? Was is recently "painted"? Isn't this where you think the odor is coming from? I know someone else saw this and was dying to ask but didn't...

It does look like it was painted, probably just before it was boxed in.

 

[PoorUB]

https://www.modinehvac.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Hot-Dawg-Power-Vented.pdf

this one says "All models approved for use in California by the CEC and in Massachusetts. Unit heater is certified for residential and commercial applications."

Residential does not mean in a home. It means a residential garage or shop.

I will admit the installation might not be up to code, but as long as it is otherwise installed and operating properly I don't have an issue with it.

 

[gmcgeo]

other then all other replies, if someone sprayed or tried to clean the heat exchanger on the outside of it, thats the only thing i can think of.

it may be burning off any chemicals that they used on cleaning it off.

 

[TonyG109]

Hi TonyG109,
Thank you for the "quote"...trying to find where it says that in the manual...? I'm not at my place right now otherwise I'd double check the model number.

Just for reference, here's the link to the manual on the Modine site that has that quote. It's on the first page, right column at the top.

https://modine.worksmartsuite.com/PORTAL/io_modules/IOGETIMAGE.php?type=stream&filename=6-583.pdf .

This disclaimer is typical of most heaters of this type, including the Big Maxx one that I have. I hope you can figure out what's causing the odor. Poor air quality is no joke and can make life miserable. Please make sure to update us if you figure it out!

Tony

 

[gmcgeo]

Hi,
I see some threads about this but not exactly what I'm experiencing, so here it goes.

I moved into my new apartment about 3 weeks ago.
Every time I turn on the heater it stinks to the point I feel sick. Strongest in colder temperatures - early morning.
After PG&E (detected gas leak), Kruse Heating Plumbing & Cooling (capped & pressurized the pipes, found nothing), 2 building maintenance guys, my property manager, and one of the building owners have all come by over the last couple weeks to work with me to try to fix this issue = no solution, yet.
So far they say there's no problem being detected.
The smoke/carbon monoxide detectors have been tested, seem to be working as they should, nothing detected.
Everyone is continuing to work with me to find the source of...
THE SMELL (cue horror movie music).

There is a predominantly bleach-like smell, plus a whiff of something I can't put my finger on, not exactly gas, coming from the exhaust enclosure traveling through the upstairs bedroom (pictures included - the vent in the bedroom floor is nonfunctional).
Downstairs where the heater is it smells like the usual warm dust.

Apparently, I'm one of 3 people who can actually smell this "bleachy-gas", and the only one that smells it the strongest/ headaches/ nausea/ coughing.
Yesterday was the worst, went to Urgent Care but it was about 3 hours after I left my apartment & they said blood tests would take a week to schedule so we don't know if I was actually poisoned or not but I had the symptoms.
I'm staying at a friends place for now.

Is this a normal smell from these Hot Dawg heaters, or what should we be looking for to fix this?
Please help, Thanks

i just notice the paint on the vent pipe going through the floor, could that be burning off? that pipe is a b-vent set up so it will get hot enough to heat that paint

 

[KVF]

Ozone detection has been confirmed.

 

[KVF]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10473289.1998.10463740

Indoor Air Quality Impacts of Ventilation Ducts: Ozone Removal & Emissions of Volatile Organic Compounds

 

[PoorUB]

Wow, almost 10 times the allowable eight hour limit per the EPA.

https://www3.epa.gov/region1/airquality/avg8hr.html

Any idea of the source?

 

[KVF]

All we know is that it’s coming from the flue / enclosure (pic included in original post). Lower levels of O3 detected downstairs.

 

[gmcgeo]

Many electronic particle air cleaners and ionizers produce ozone. Ozone build up concentrations depend on how powerful the device is, weather it's placed in a small space and how many interior doors are closed.

I never heard of a modine creating Ozone build up.

 

[KVF]

other then all other replies, if someone sprayed or tried to clean the heat exchanger on the outside of it, thats the only thing i can think of.

it may be burning off any chemicals that they used on cleaning it off.

Many electronic particle air cleaners and ionizers produce ozone. Ozone build up concentrations depend on how powerful the device is, weather it's placed in a small space and how many interior doors are closed.

I never heard of a modine creating Ozone build up.

It has to be the exhaust vent

 

[gmcgeo]

It has to be the exhaust vent.

could be the chemicals on the vent yes. i forgot about that lol

 

[gmcgeo]

All we know is that it’s coming from the vent duct / enclosure (pic included in original post). Lower levels of O3 detected downstairs. My landlord who was once acting like he was interested in solving this problem has suddenly started to deflect to other issues even suggesting “maybe this place isn’t right for you” and that I should move out or saying things like “what else is she going to complain about” so he doesn’t have to deal with the problem. This is an air quality code violation so I’m taking the necessary steps to get him to fix it or ask for all my money back and move out.

let us know what happens

 

[ripperd]

If I were a betting man I'd bet its the painted pipe getting hot and cooking the paint. I don't think you are supposed to paint it, especially with regular paint. You might get away with a high temp BBQ type spray paint. I'd replace the exhaust venting.

 

[KVF]

Many electronic particle air cleaners and ionizers produce ozone. Ozone build up concentrations depend on how powerful the device is, weather it's placed in a small space and how many interior doors are closed.

I never heard of a modine creating Ozone build up.

We’ve confirmed that the Modine Hot Dawg heater is in good shape BA Morris came through and checked it out, also stating that they do not produce ozone.

 

[KVF]

Had a meeting with the owners today things went well. We believe that the source of the ozone might be coming from the fan on the exterior of the Modine heater. Tonight I’m going to turn on the heater and see if It sparks. Im really hoping this turns out to be the source of the problem and & an easy electrical fix, with no more ozone emissions.

 

[KVF]

The fan

 

[gmcgeo]

The fan

I find it hard to believe it would be that, but i have been wrong before.

 

[TonyG109]

Electric motors are known to produce ozone. The sparking between the brushes and the commutators is where this occurs. So I'm guessing that the more sparking, the more ozone produced. Based on this "guess", I would think that an issue with the motor, such as bad/defective brushes or commutators, could produce more ozone than a properly running motor. Staying tuned for the final analysis...

 

[PoorUB]

There is not any brushes or commutator bars in that motor to produce sparks. It is a simple induction motor

I would be more inclined to agree it is the painted venting.

 

[gmcgeo]

Electric motors are known to produce ozone. The sparking between the brushes and the commutators is where this occurs. So I'm guessing that the more sparking, the more ozone produced. Based on this "guess", I would think that an issue with the motor, such as bad/defective brushes or commutators, could produce more ozone than a properly running motor. Staying tuned for the final analysis...

i would bet its not the fan

 

[KVF]

So they cleaned out the flue enclosure yesterday I turned on the heat last night Did not see any Sparks from the fan but there was a reduction in the ozone detected in the bedroom up to .222 (yellow zone) the smell came on fast and then went away kind of quickly which is a first.
this morning I turned on the heater again after the fan kicked on the ozone smell was minimal The meter read up to about .045 (green zone).
so maybe all that **** inside the enclosure did have something to do with how intense the ozone was?

 

[gmcgeo]

So they cleaned out the flue enclosure yesterday I turned on the heat last night Did not see any Sparks from the fan but there was a reduction in the ozone detected in the bedroom up to .222 (yellow zone) the smell came on fast and then went away kind of quickly which is a first.
this morning I turned on the heater again after the fan kicked on the ozone smell was minimal The meter read up to about .045 (green zone).
so maybe all that **** inside the enclosure did have something to do with how intense the ozone was?

like was stated before, this fan is a simple induction motor and should not be sparking and making ozone. i would think its something to do with the vent chase, "flue enclosure"

 

[KVF]

.

 

[KVF]

like was stated before, this fan is a simple induction motor and should not be sparking and making ozone. i would think its something to do with the vent chase, "flue enclosure"

Yes and I think it’s interesting that B A Morrison said “that wouldn’t make a difference “. It clearly has in the evidence of reduced odor and ozone readings.

 

[metaldad]

you stated the space the heater hung in, was a shop, and, judging by the 1st pic, most likely.
could be whatever **** they used in their process is on everything, with them gone (?), the **** is burning off the hot surfaces

 

[PoorUB]

Turn the thermostat up to 80F, open a couple windows and let it run hard for a few hours and see what happens. Perhaps there is something on the heat exchanger or vent pipe and it will "burn off" if run hard for a few hours.

 

[KVF]

A cracked or rotted out heat exchanger makes a weird smell, something like burning electrical wiring, similar to what you describe. Has anyone looked the heater over well? Hot Dawg heat exchangers are pretty durable, but I wonder if it isn't the cause. I have seen more than one tech miss it!

I also would take a good look at the b-vent and look up through it and make sure it isn't rotten, or partially plugged up. They have pressure switches that should keep them from running, but I have seen them run with almost completely plugged venting.

We had a customer call with trouble from a Reznor unit heater. It would run inconsistently. I sent a tech over to see what was going on. He was there for a short time and fixed something, but I forget what. The next day we get a call again, I send the same guy over. Third day I get called again. This time I go over, fire up the heater, notice a weird smell and start looking it over while it was running and found a couple small rusted out spots in the heat exchanger.

other then all other replies, if someone sprayed or tried to clean the heat exchanger on the outside of it, thats the only thing i can think of.

it may be burning off any chemicals that they used on cleaning it off.

Turn the thermostat up to 80F, open a couple windows and let it run hard for a few hours and see what happens. Perhaps there is something on the heat exchanger or vent pipe and it will "burn off" if run hard for a few hours.

I’ve been doing just that twice a day. I turn on the heater (Hot Dawg) in the morning when I wake up & before I go to bed. I’m still getting green to yellow zone meter readings from .045 - .161, less times up to .223. I’m still smelling ozone or chlorine like smell, sometimes with natural gas and sometimes like truck exhaust. I’m not getting headaches anymore but I am having mild chest tightness & coughing. So I think cleaning out the flue enclosure did help a little bit but the flue is going through the bedroom and I think that’s the problem. I think the flue should be going out somewhere downstairs in the “work” area of this live/work apartment.

 

[KVF]

you stated the space the heater hung in, was a shop, and, judging by the 1st pic, most likely.
could be whatever **** they used in their process is on everything, with them gone (?), the **** is burning off the hot surfaces

That might be part of it

 

[KVF]

EPA ground level ozone standard

 

[Lassen Forge]

Cat, racoon, or skunk sprayed the unit or the exchanger before installation. Nothing smells worse than stale tomcat piss that then gets heated up...