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moisture problems in garage floor

justjoey

New member
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
3
I have been researching epoxies, coatings and coverings for 2 weeks straight and cant find an answer to my problems. I have what appears to be moisture coming from under my garage floor (hydropressure) and causing effloresence (sp, white fuzzy salt crystals) on the surface. I really need to get some kind of coating on the floor to stop the moisture before it makes my ceiling sag. Its already causing some of my joint tape to sag. Plus it makes an uncomfortable work area.

Anyone have any suggestions that wont cost me an arm and a leg? I was reading about www.sanitred.com in an old thread but has anyone used it?

Thanks
 
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nonhog

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Nov 6, 2007
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Arizona (Tucson)
Don't know if you searched or not but here is some infohttp://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13398&highlight=moisture&page=2
you may or may not know Wolverine doesn't sell DIY anymore (last I saw)
I have yet to remedy my issue, like to do my homework well in advance.
 

Jabberwalk

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Jan 12, 2008
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67
Location
Knoxville, TN
If you have moisture problems, coatings are not the answer. You are only placing a band aid on the problem. You will most likely have a floor failure unless the moisture issue is resolved. If you want a nice looking floor, look at polishing the concrete- no coatings to fail. Just my .02.
 

thegarageguy

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Oct 24, 2007
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Sorry Jabberwalk but your dead wrong. Some industrial manufacturers make vapor block primers. I have been using it on moister sensitve slabs in garages and basements with great success for the past 2-3 years.

I normally charge an extra $1 sqft for this.

You will not find this product in DIY or be offered by your franchise garage companies.
 

Jabberwalk

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Jan 12, 2008
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Location
Knoxville, TN
Sorry Garage guy- I'll stick with my original post. If the moisture is so bad that the drywall is being damaged- a vapor blocking primer is not the answer.
Here's a scenario. Joey uses your super special primer and coats his floor. When the cap of the slab blows out from pressure in a few years who is going to pay for it? You can have your experts say the concrete failed not the coating. Technically that is correct. The problem is the cause of the floor failure was a coating that should have never been put down. I have witnessed this happen. The customer was SOL. Yes, if there is a slight moisture issue, primers can help. I would have a moisture test done to see how much moisture are we talking about. Then search for the cause and address it.
 

dxdexter

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Aug 1, 2006
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1,923
As mentioned above, I believe coatings are the wrong way to go in your situation. The moisture ingress you describe will almost certainly cause adhesive failure of the coating. The only way to prevent moisture migration due to hydrostatic pressure is to remove the moisture source by proper drainage. Moisture problems can be minimized by the placement of an impermeable layer between the earthworks and the concrete. This can take the form of polyethylene sheeting or job specific products.

If you do succeed in preventing moisture vapors with products such as those suggested by thegarageguy, then the degradation of the substrate concrete may continue. Many aggregate sources are not compatible with the chemical make up of Portland Cement powder and through the process of Alkaline Aggregate Reactivity, driven by the presence of moisture, will break down the concrete, eventually to rubble.

I am unfamiliar with the products mentioned in your original post. They make great claims, but most of these type of products are generally stop-gap measures and do not give long term durability.
 
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justjoey

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Feb 13, 2008
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Thanks for the comments. Would installing a french drain on one side of the garage help? When we moved in we had a big empty muddy clay filled flower bed on one side of the garage. Since we moved in I got rid of that and placed sod down with a slight slope away from the foundation. (advice from a foundation company). We had some sinking in the garage and had piers installed before we closed. Could this have anything to do with my problem?

Spending a lot of money for a professional epoxy is out of the question also. We just did some major renovations on a tight budget, plus we are only planning to live here 2 years or so. Would stain and a clear sealer help at all?
 

www.rocksolidfloors.com

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Feb 17, 2008
Messages
49
Location
Minneapolis, MN
The use of a moisture blocking primer is like patching a car tire on the outside, it is best to fix the problem from inside out. Citadel Floor Finishing systems offers a waterproofing system that will work from the inside out. The product reacts with the free lime (ca) that is in the concrete to internally seal the concrete from the inside out. As far as moisture blowing off the top concrete cap I find this hard to believe in the fact that moisture will always that the path of least resistance. Good Luck.
 

thegarageguy

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Well listen, I'm no chemist and I certainly will not recommend anything specific without seeing the slab and testing it to know what or which product to use. But yeah, even these special primers have their limitations. So far I have used my products by manufactures recommendations and I have not had a failure yet. I mean hell, if the slab is constantly damp and creating such a humid environment that its sagging your tape, then ****, dig french drains and pump the water out. Then coat it, carpet it, paint it, use fricken chalk for all I care.

I have used these products successfully and they are out there for the professional to use. Will they apply it properly. I dont know. Is there a risk involved? Sure, like anything in life.

Again, these special primers can handle a certain amount of hydrostatic pressure but it definately is not a cure all. dig french drains and if epoxy is a way you want to go after that, then i would definately recommend to have it primed first with a moister stop primer. my 2 cents
 
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MrCrewcab

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Jan 6, 2008
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Great White North
Have you considered tiles like racedeck or the ones sold at costco? kind of expensive though.

You really need to find the source of the moisture though. is it an attached garage? If not, could you trench around the outside and install weeping tile?

How about installing a sump pump in a corner of your garage, not on top of the floor but drop a 5 gallon pail with holes drilled in the sides into a hole dug into your floor and then you could pump it outside away from your garage.

If it was me I would install a little dehumidifier and use the tiles or wait a year after fixing the moisture problem before coating the floor

just a thought
 

DynoDave

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Mar 25, 2005
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Location
Michigan
The use of a moisture blocking primer is like patching a car tire on the outside, it is best to fix the problem from inside out. Citadel Floor Finishing systems offers a waterproofing system that will work from the inside out. The product reacts with the free lime (ca) that is in the concrete to internally seal the concrete from the inside out. As far as moisture blowing off the top concrete cap I find this hard to believe in the fact that moisture will always that the path of least resistance. Good Luck.

Do you have any experience with this product? I was looking at something similar, but haven't been able to find anyone that's actually used it.
 

Jaguar Fan

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Park City for Ski Season; Las Vegas for Poker Seas
Thanks for the comments. Would installing a french drain on one side of the garage help? When we moved in we had a big empty muddy clay filled flower bed on one side of the garage. Since we moved in I got rid of that and placed sod down with a slight slope away from the foundation. (advice from a foundation company). We had some sinking in the garage and had piers installed before we closed. Could this have anything to do with my problem?

Yes, a french drain will help a lot. You may need to consult a soils engineer.

I have way more experience with french drains than I ever wanted to have.

The home I currently live in is on a hillside... a custom home that is tiered (it steps up the hill). The General Contractor died unexpectedly about 3/4 of the way through construction, and in the process of picking up the pieces, we discovered a ton of construction defects. Magically, every sub said "I didn't do that; the dead guy came in and did that himself." Yeah, right. 17 lawsuits later... but that's another story.

One of the many things screwed up was the drainage system... I have a pier and grade beam foundation, and water would pool on the uphill side of grade beam intersections. I literally had to put a half dozen sump pumps under the house during the rainy season.

The saturated soil caused the garage slab to heave and crack.

I put in 3 french drains, and magically the water-under-the-house problem was cured. The soils engineer I worked with spec'd the drain a bit differently than most. Because of the high clay content of the soil (tiny particles), we dug the french drain about 3 feet deep (needed to consult with the engineer who designed the foundation to ensure it was OK), and in the bottom on a few inch bed of drain rock he put a perf pipe with the twin perferations facing UPWARD, not DOWNWARD (as is the custom in the area). He said the downward facing perferation implementations have been failing in the area after about 8 years -- it gets clogged. Of course, the perf pipe was wrapped in filter fabric, and the entire trench was also lined in filter fabric.

Here's a suggestion for you to consider... in one location where we couldn't really do a french drain, we did something different that helped a lot. Next to the exterior foundation on one uphill segment I had installed a concrete walkway, with about 12 inches of drainrock underneath. The Concrete is sealed. During the wet months, water from the hill hits the concrete walkway and runs to a surface drain. It has been 16 years and the concrete has never deteriorated.


One other location: in addition to the french drain, in one location we put bituthane (I think) against the grade beam down to about 6 feet.

Good luck -- water infiltration can be a tough problem to solve.
 

FL_Javelin

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Sep 14, 2006
Messages
134
Location
SW Florida
Thinking outside the box here, what about what pool people use to seal a leaking pool? There is a product they inject under the slab through drilled holes which would possibly stopped the slab from seeing all the moisture.

$.02
 

Fuller

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Feb 10, 2008
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87
Location
St Pete FL
I'm in the Tampa/ St Pete area and I see a lot of wet slabs. In some neighborhoods it seems like I have to walk away from every sales opportunity I get. From a business POV it's much safer for me to either sell them a plastic tile system rather than take a chance on a complete floor failure. Doing some kind of wet slab mitigation only increases the financial risk IMO.
 

WolverineCoatings

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Oct 22, 2007
Messages
833
Location
Spartanburg, SC
We developed one of our products (a primer) specifically because of Florida (for swimming pools). I mean, holy ****... you dig one foot in Florida and you hit water! Truely, there is no worse place to coat concrete on the whole planet. Not to mention... if you're not careful the pool will actually pop out of the ground!
 

Kevin54

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Jan 12, 2005
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Urbana, Ohio
Thanks for the comments. Would installing a french drain on one side of the garage help? When we moved in we had a big empty muddy clay filled flower bed on one side of the garage. Since we moved in I got rid of that and placed sod down with a slight slope away from the foundation. (advice from a foundation company). We had some sinking in the garage and had piers installed before we closed. Could this have anything to do with my problem?

A drain would help. The ground needs to be sloped away from the building though. Dig down around the foundation, seal the block with a asphalt based sealer, then backfill almost to the top with gravel, then put a layer of landscaping fabric, then put your topsoin on top. Also if you have a block foundation, the water can actually fill the core of the block up. Lastly you could probably coat the floor with a product like UGL, DriLoc, that penetrates the concrete and keeps the moisture from coming through. Check it out in one of Lowes little displays in the concrete area. I just don't know about coating over this though. But fixing the foundation would be your best start.
 

dreamingmuscle

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Dec 4, 2005
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Location
Tryon Oklahoma
Put in French drains then pour 3 feet of concrete around the outside of the garage over the drains. Sump pump is a option worth looking into, but with out perf pipe to direct water its way it might not be 100% effective. A dehumidifier to top it off would be great also.
________
Ford Maverick
 
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justjoey

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Feb 13, 2008
Messages
3
This past weekend I re-graded the lawn on the garage side to channel away from the house put in new sod, also fixed a gutter that wasnt working properly. So far so good, but if this doesnt help ill try a french drain. Supposed to be a rainy week here so we will see how it worked. Im really thinking of just staining and sealing the floor and forgetting any kind of epoxy.
 
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