Monitor Barn beam install?

[Brown6041]

Hi everyone, I am in the planning process of designing a 36' x 48' monitor pole barn. It will basically be two sections each 36'x24' with the front being storage and back half being a small appt to live in while we wait to build our house. The layout allows me to take back over part of the living area once we are out to increase my shop size and still keep a guest house. There will be a loft above the center aisle, only above the living area. Ok here is my question. With 6x6 poles spaced 12' apart how do I go about attaching the beams between the posts that will have the lofts floor joists attached too. Plan is to use 2x10 joists and still trying to determine what size beams i need to carry the loft load. Loft will only be used for attic storage, Any help/advice would be amazing. Thanks

Chris

 

[RocketScott]

Concealed flange hangers. Look for a C in the Simpson call out.

https://www.strongtie.com/facemount...hucq-hgus_productgroup_wcc/p/hu.huc.hucq.hgus


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MagKarl]

My loft is supported by LVL's notched into the posts. Joists are hung from the LVL's.

 

[Brown6041]

My loft is supported by LVL's notched into the posts. Joists are hung from the LVL's.

So the pole is notched at the loft and keeps going up to support the center aisle truss's? or is this just a notch at the top of a post?

 

[theoldwizard1]

So the pole is notched at the loft and keeps going up to support the center aisle truss's? or is this just a notch at the top of a post?

Why do you want the posts to run all the way up to the top of the second floor ?

Just put your side beams ON TOP OF the posts, build you floor for the second level ON TOP OF those beams and then 2x4/2x6 wall above that. Those will be exterior walls, so you don't need them to be open like on the first floor.

Make sure you have some one do the engineering on those 12' beams sitting on top of the posts. With that span and holding the entire second floor and roof, you may need more than a couple of 2x10.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My loft is supported by LVL's notched into the posts. Joists are hung from the LVL's.

They could be placed on top of the LVLs.

 

[Brown6041]

Why do you want the posts to run all the way up to the top of the second floor ?

Just put your side beams ON TOP OF the posts, build you floor for the second level ON TOP OF those beams and then 2x4/2x6 wall above that. Those will be exterior walls, so you don't need them to be open like on the first floor.

Make sure you have some one do the engineering on those 12' beams sitting on top of the posts. With that span and holding the entire second floor and roof, you may need more than a couple of 2x10.

I have thought about that framing idea. How would i go about attaching my shed rafters to the 2x6 wall framing? Also 2x10's would just be the floor joist that would attach to whatever size beam it is that i would need.

 

[Brown6041]

What about something like this. It looks like they used a beam to span down the center aisle and then placed a smaller post on top of the beam in the middle. This is basically how I am wanting to frame my pole barn. Just with the beams a little lower so the joists can be used as the ceiling for the living area. I would use a 2x10 attached to the face of the posts to attach the side rafters to the center.

 

[matt_i]

I think the Simpson heavy duty hangers are a good idea. I would look into LVLs for your side beams. A 2x10 spanning more than about 10-12 feet and being asked to carry pocket loads itself doesn't seem like a very robust structure in my mind. Other possibilities are to fabricate heavy (like 1/4" thick) steel "shelf bracket" weldments that thru-bolt the 6x6 column, or to figure out a conservative nailing schedule that allows a 2x or 4x framing member to be screwed or bolted to the column so that the end grain can be used as a shelf. The steelies have the benefit of also being screwed or bolted into the end of the LVL as well for retention all around.

Why do you want the posts to run all the way up to the top of the second floor ?

Just put your side beams ON TOP OF the posts, build you floor for the second level ON TOP OF those beams and then 2x4/2x6 wall above that. Those will be exterior walls, so you don't need them to be open like on the first floor.

Make sure you have some one do the engineering on those 12' beams sitting on top of the posts. With that span and holding the entire second floor and roof, you may need more than a couple of 2x10.

Imo this is a very poor idea for these reasons. The height where you saw off the "poles" the building above that has lost its moment integrity. So then its basically like building a stick frame from that point up relying on additional wall framing plus the shear-diaphragm to build the moment integrity back up. Inother words now you have to start sheathing with plywood so the top part doesn't simply fall over in the first wind. This doesn't take into account trying to figure out how to intertwine the ends of 2x, 4x or LVL width materials in a 90 degree corner on top of a 5-1/2" square pad.

Another analogy: Think of building a wooden gantry crane with two 6x6 posts buried in the ground with a single LVL as the loadbearing crossmember. Would you attempt to fasten the LVL to the side of the posts or build/buy steel pocket hangers to span in between the posts or would you set the LVL on top of the posts and then attempt to fasten it so it didn't roll over under the crane load....

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have thought about that framing idea. How would i go about attaching my shed rafters to the 2x6 wall framing? Also 2x10's would just be the floor joist that would attach to whatever size beam it is that i would need.

You would definitely want to build the upper walls with 2x6s. The shed rafters need to be spaced to land on the 2x6 studs. If you were planing on 2x8 rafters 24" O.C., then you could go down a size and install them 16" O.C.

 

[theoldwizard1]

What about something like this. It looks like they used a beam to span down the center aisle ...

What I see are trusses for the center roof. The only "full length" posts I see are the ones in the front.

QUOTE=Brown6041;6162157] ... and then placed a smaller post on top of the beam in the middle.[/quote]
A 2 piece post is a waste of money. You loose all of its structural integrity.

QUOTE=Brown6041;6162157] I would use a 2x10 attached to the face of the posts to attach the side rafters to the center.[/QUOTE]

NO, NO< NO !!! Any load carrying structural horizontal member should EVER be connected to a vertical "on the face". It needs to be "set in" or "set on top of".

The exception is "joist/beam hangers". If you use the correct ones for the job and install ALL of the PROPER FASTENERS (not just plain nails) then they will do the job.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Imo this is a very poor idea for these reasons. The height where you saw off the "poles" the building above that has lost its moment integrity. So then its basically like building a stick frame from that point up relying on additional wall framing plus the shear-diaphragm to build the moment integrity back up. In other words now you have to start sheathing with plywood so the top part doesn't simply fall over in the first wind.

I won't argue. I will just say there are MILLIONS of building built like this.

Instead of using rafters on the wings, you could use a half truss. Much lighter and less force on the upper stick built wall.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The ULTIMATE "monitor style" barn build !

This is a REAL barn, not a half barn/half house. If you read the text that goes with the picture, you will see that the STYLE of the construction was as important as the finished building.

Also note, it is completely open on the inside. This can only be accomplished with a pole building design.

Not the best angle, but you see there is NO RIDGE BEAM. Each rafter pair was built on the ground, There is a rafter tie under the OSB triangle at the top. The OSB is glued and screwed. The ten posts are actually attached to the concrete floor. It was a monolithic pour, but the outer edge and footer where the post rest are double thick. Rebar in the footers and wire mesh everywhere.

 

[bczygan]

Another thing to note, is the beam holding the mezzanine or loft floor not only has that load AND the wall above it, but the roof over the 2 story section (Unless supported by a beam), AND the shed roof of the outside bay, unless it is supported by another separate beam.

Bill