Moore & Wright vs. Starrett levels

[atlm]

Does anyone have experience with Moore & Wright levels, as compared to Starrett? Are they about the same, as far as quality and accuracy?

I'm comparing the MWELM and the 98-12, both 12", with similar specifications (0.3 and 0.42 mm per meter).

 

[Dave455]

Yes, I have both a Moore and Wright, and a Starrett, though they are both vintage tools, not current.

Not a lot to choose between them in all honesty. Moore and Wright are probably more common in the U.K. Starrett in the U.S.

Over the years, both makers have offered different grades, so you need to ensure you are comparing like with like, but there’s not a lot of difference quality wise.

Don’t have any experience of the newer ones.

Have you considered used? Levels are one of those tools that are costly new, but often don’t see a lot of use, and can be good buys used. Unlike things like dial callipers, there’s not a lot to go wrong with a level!

I sometimes see Rabone levels at very reasonable prices too - mainly because most folks want one of the above names. Rabone made quite nice levels though.

Buying used, I’d get whichever I could get the best deal on. Buying new, I’d go with whoever has maintained their quality the best!

 

[neophyte]

Yes, I have both a Moore and Wright, and a Starrett, though they are both vintage tools, not current.

Not a lot to choose between them in all honesty. Moore and Wright are probably more common in the U.K. Starrett in the U.S.

Over the years, both makers have offered different grades, so you need to ensure you are comparing like with like, but there’s not a lot of difference quality wise.

Don’t have any experience of the newer ones.

Have you considered used? Levels are one of those tools that are costly new, but often don’t see a lot of use, and can be good buys used. Unlike things like dial callipers, there’s not a lot to go wrong with a level!

I sometimes see Rabone levels at very reasonable prices too - mainly because most folks want one of the above names. Rabone made quite nice levels though.

Buying used, I’d get whichever I could get the best deal on. Buying new, I’d go with whoever has maintained their quality the best!

I’m not sure about levels, but a number of Moore Wright products were rebranded by Brown & Sharpe at one point, I think maybe when Brown and Sharpe had union troubles decades ago, but I may have that part mistaken.

Tabone was also later purchased by Stanley Tools, so some items got rebranded as Stanley Rabone, or just Rabone.

 

[ive]

Have a starett. Made in Dominican. There’s red floaties in one of the bubbles. Wouldn’t recommend.

 

[Dave455]

I’m not sure about levels, but a number of Moore Wright products were rebranded by Brown & Sharpe at one point, I think maybe when Brown and Sharpe had union troubles decades ago, but I may have that part mistaken.

Tabone was also later purchased by Stanley Tools, so some items got rebranded as Stanley Rabone, or just Rabone.

Yes, could well be. The older Brown and Sharpe that I’ve seen appears to be their own products, and the later appears to be rebranded Tesa, but anything could have happened in between. I don’t see a whole lot here in the U.K.

When I referred to ‘Rabone’, I was actually referring to the original J.Rabone and Sons. They made a variety of measuring equipment, and had a reputation for being a bit ‘mid grade’, but their level’s were really nice. They merged with Chestermans (who were really ‘top end’) in the early ‘60’s and became ‘Rabone Chesterman’. My level predates that!

Wasn’t sure who owned them now. I see stuff with the name on but it’s (unsurprisingly) not even mid grade now.

 

[neophyte]

Stanley still owns Rabone, and some UK made stuff is still Rabone branded.
I’m not sure whether a Stanley owned facility is still producing the Rabone stuff, or whether an outside manufacturer like Fisco is doing the production for Stanley, since Stanley seems to have closed their main UK factory.

 

[Dave455]

I think I read somewhere that Stanley paid $14 million for Rabone Chesterman in the late 80’s. If so, I’m not surprised they hung onto it!

Yes, Stanley closed their main U.K. factory (the old ‘Chapman’ works) some years ago. I’ve actually driven past it. The bulk of it looked like it dated from the ‘50’s. I suspect some was a good deal older. A lot of those ‘50’s and 60’s buildings were never designed to last as long as they did, so in all fairness to Stanley the place probably needed more investment than was viable.

They do have at least one other factory still going (Hellaby) which I think had a good deal of investment. I believe it’s was making Proto screwdrivers, among other things. Could be making some Rabone stuff, but I don’t know what’s U.K. made.

If it’s tape measures then yes, Fisco is more likely, although I believe there’s another firm making tape measures too.

 

[Joebass]

Have a starett. Made in Dominican. There’s red floaties in one of the bubbles. Wouldn’t recommend.

Let's see this, not saying I don't believe you but the Dominican Republic is not known for manufacturing lol, especially precision tools. Pretty sure ALL Starrett levels are made in MA.

As for the OPs question, Moore and Wright is equivalent to Starrett in the UK, where Starrett isn't as common.

 

[neophyte]

Let's see this, not saying I don't believe you but the Dominican Republic is not known for manufacturing lol, especially precision tools. Pretty sure ALL Starrett levels are made in MA.

As for the OPs question, Moore and Wright is equivalent to Starrett in the UK, where Starrett isn't as common.

Starrett actually has manufacturing facilities, I think in Scotland, although maybe just for blade manufacturing.

“ Manufactures band saw blades, power tool accessoriees and optical measuring projectors.”
According to the Starrett website.

 

[dutchgray]

The Starrett holesaws are made in Scotland as well, but that makes sense since they are made out of bandsaw blade.

Moore and Wright machinest tools are much more commonly found than Starrett here but there is still a lot of good used Starrett out there.
Lots of Mitutoyo as well.

 

[davethorik]

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/93676/000119312506195818/dex21.htm

Looks like Starrett acquired the facility in DR in 2004. What a joke. I've seen their chinese junk too. I wont be buying any new Starrett tools anytime soon.

 

[atlm]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I couldn’t decide between the two, so I ordered both, and plan to do a side by side comparison.

According to Starrett’s website and sellers on Amazon, the Starrett 98-12 levels are all made in the US. This one comes with a NIST certificate, whatever that is.

I didn’t find COO listed anywhere for the Moore & Wright MWELM 12” level; just info stating the company is from the UK. Hopefully there will be something that answers that question when I get it, on the level itself or in whatever box or container it comes in.

 

[Dave455]

Moore and Wright are now part of Bowers.

Bowers originally made (and still make) bore mics. All the ones I’ve seen are quite high quality, and British made. Bowers also own Baty, who make shadowgraphs and dial test indicators. The Shadowgraphs are definitely British made, the factory isn’t far from me. Can’t speak for the DTI’s. I always preferred Verdict, which definitely are British made!

Being under Bowers ownership is probably better than the options as the management should understand the product, however the previous owners had outsourced some stuff to the Far East, and once production is lost, it’s difficult to get back!

Don’t know what’s outsourced and what isn’t. A friend has a Moore and Wright combination square. It’s relatively modern, and modern styled, but it’s a lovely tool, so they can do it when they try!

Broadly speaking, I see very few new measuring tools, or items of inspection equipment, that are of better quality than the old. Doesn’t matter if you are looking at Moore and Wright, Starrett, or even Tesa, they all seem to suffer.

I’m quite lucky in that I was buying used / surplus tools when industry was switching to metric. I was buying phenomenal quality equipment - Moore and Wright specialist mics, Benson verniers, Mercer DTI’s at unbelievable prices. The more specialised the item, the better the deal. Sadly those days seem to be over!

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

When I had to buy a level, it was on the required list, I got a Moore and Wright, since it wasn't Starrett or Mitutoyo , it was reasonable. But that was 35 years ago. No complaints.

 

[atlm]

I realized I never posted the results when I finished my side by side comparison of the Moore & Wright MWELM and the Starrett 98-12 levels 2 years ago, so here they are:

Where they are the same:

• Both levels are 12", with 3 bubble vials (1 main, 1 horizontally perpendicular and 1 vertically perpendicular), and a V-groove down the center of the main measuring surface for corners and round objects.
• Both levels arrived calibrated spot-on, and provided the same measurements (bubble offset on the same surfaces).

Differences:

Case:

• The Moore & Wright MWELM came nicely fit in a foam-cutout inside a plastic case.
• The Starrett 98-12 came in a cardboard box with no liner. (There is a higher-cost version available with a foam-lined wood case.)

Country of Origin:

• The Starrett 98-12 is made in the USA, clearly shared by Starrett on the their website and on the level's box.
• The Moore & Wright MWELM is now made in China.

Day to day use:

• The 2 holes in the center of the Starrett make handling and maneuvering easier and more comfortable than the single hole on the end of the M&W. Yes, the M&W can be picked up from the center using the lip, but it's not as as easy or secure as slipping fingers into holes (I know, that sounds funny).
• The clear liquid and red markings on the Starrett are easier for me to see than the green liquid and black markings on the M&W.
• On the Starrett, the short vial horizontally perpendicular to the main is on one end of the level, easy to see when leveling 2 planes of flat surfaces. On the M&W, the short horizontally perpendicular vial is next to the main vial and partially hidden by the frame.

Quality:

• The Starrett has a beautiful wrinkle black finish with impeccable metal surfaces and machining.
• The M&W is finished in what looks like black paint, over a casting with inconsistent texture and visible imperfections in the base metal including where it is machined. Functional but unrefined.
• On the Starrett, the cylindrical protection cover for the primary vial is metal. From what I've read, I believe it's brass with a silver-colored coating.
• On the M&W, the cylindrical cover is black plastic.

Summary:

When I bought these 2 levels, I got great deals on both. The Moore & Wright MWELM cost me $117 after tax, brand new. The Starrett 98-12 (TCAL version) cost me $181 after tax, used like-new from Amazon Warehouse. With the M&W being $64 cheaper and including the nice case, I really wanted to like it better.

Either of these levels will do the job.

But in the end, I found the Starrett to be a more user-friendly design, with better build quality, better material quality, better maneuverability, and better visibility. And, as a bonus, its overall finish is gorgeous.

So I kept the Starrett, and have used it now for just over 2 years, mostly for pool table leveling, for which the 12" length works great, but also to occasionally level machine surfaces.

 

[Dave455]

I realized I never posted the results when I finished my side by side comparison of the Moore & Wright MWELM and the Starrett 98-12 levels 2 years ago, so here they are:

Where they are the same:

• Both levels are 12", with 3 bubble vials (1 main, 1 horizontally perpendicular and 1 vertically perpendicular), and a V-groove down the center of the main measuring surface for corners and round objects.
• Both levels arrived calibrated spot-on, and provided the same measurements (bubble offset on the same surfaces).

Differences:

Case:

• The Moore & Wright MWELM came nicely fit in a foam-cutout inside a plastic case.
• The Starrett 98-12 came in a cardboard box with no liner. (There is a higher-cost version available with a foam-lined wood case.)

Country of Origin:

• The Starrett 98-12 is made in the USA, clearly shared by Starrett on the their website and on the level's box.
• The Moore & Wright MWELM is now made in China.

Day to day use:

• The 2 holes in the center of the Starrett make handling and maneuvering easier and more comfortable than the single hole on the end of the M&W. Yes, the M&W can be picked up from the center using the lip, but it's not as as easy or secure as slipping fingers into holes (I know, that sounds funny).
• The clear liquid and red markings on the Starrett are easier for me to see than the green liquid and black markings on the M&W.
• On the Starrett, the short vial horizontally perpendicular to the main is on one end of the level, easy to see when leveling 2 planes of flat surfaces. On the M&W, the short horizontally perpendicular vial is next to the main vial and partially hidden by the frame.

Quality:

• The Starrett has a beautiful wrinkle black finish with impeccable metal surfaces and machining.
• The M&W is finished in what looks like black paint, over a casting with inconsistent texture and visible imperfections in the base metal including where it is machined. Functional but unrefined.
• On the Starrett, the cylindrical protection cover for the primary vial is metal. From what I've read, I believe it's brass with a silver-colored coating.
• On the M&W, the cylindrical cover is black plastic.

Summary:

When I bought these 2 levels, I got great deals on both. The Moore & Wright MWELM cost me $117 after tax, brand new. The Starrett 98-12 (TCAL version) cost me $181 after tax, used like-new from Amazon Warehouse. With the M&W being $64 cheaper and including the nice case, I really wanted to like it better.

Either of these levels will do the job.

But in the end, I found the Starrett to be a more user-friendly design, with better build quality, better material quality, better maneuverability, and better visibility. And, as a bonus, its overall finish is gorgeous.

So I kept the Starrett, and have used in now for just over 2 years, mostly for pool table leveling, for which the 12" level works great, but also to occasionally level machine surfaces.

If it’s a choice between U.S. made and Chinese made, and there’s $64 price difference, then there is no choice!

Even looking at the pictures, it’s obvious that the Moore and Wright is nothing like the quality of previous tools.

You definitely made the right decision! I’d have done the same.

 

[dnschmidt]

They didn't call themselves "The Worlds Greatest Toolmakers" for nothing. I like Starrett everything.

 

[atlm]

If it’s a choice between U.S. made and Chinese made, and there’s $64 price difference, then there is no choice!

If the quality of the tools is equal and the prices are close , I agree with you completely that it would be an easy choice.

But I've owned tools that were U.S. made that were of mediocre quality, like Craftsman raised panel ratchets. So, a hands-on comparison of the tools themselves was valuable to me.

At the time of this purchase and comparison, COO for the M&W was unclear. That seems to be intentional on the part of M&W, as its COO was not (and still isn’t) listed on Amazon, M&W’s website, anywhere on the level, or its case. There was just a card that said something about M&W being a UK company.

After deciding to keep the Starrett and sending the M&W back, I did some more digging to satisfy my own curiosity. That’s when I found the COO for this M&W level, listed on a few reseller websites. There are also public documents from Bowers Group that mention manufacturing for M&W in China.

Even looking at the pictures, it’s obvious that the Moore and Wright is nothing like the quality of previous tools.

Agreed, the differences in the levels can be seen pretty clearly in their stock pictures!

You definitely made the right decision! I’d have done the same.

Thanks, and thank you for all the information you shared back in 2020.

Hopefully all of this helps the next GJ member who is looking for a level of this type.