More Craftsman Offshoring

[gatewaysysop]

First things first, not trying to start a debate and prefer not to have my thread deleted because of other people's responses. Please, please take the debate somewhere else or start a new thread if that's the route you want to go. I am only posting this to share that these products are now off-shored, because I know there are some people like myself who like to know before they buy and for whom it makes some measure of difference.

Okay, with that out of the way, here's the context. I was at the local Sears a few days ago and was checking out a few of the pullers. I noticed that the ones pictured below, and some other items (but NOT the 2 and 3-jaw gear pullers, apparently) are now made in Taiwan. It is stated on the back pf the packaging in tiny letters, as per Sear's usual practice.

Secondly, I looked at some of the adjacent brake tools, which I bought US-made versions of many years ago. Sure enough, these are also discretely marked Taiwan on the back of the package now.

Finally, the reversible snap ring pliers pictured, while they still said "USA" on the red plastic grips, the package says on the back, "Made in the USA of domestic and globally sourced components." Perhaps the grips are made in USA? Otherwise I wonder how they can get away with that.

In any event, I thought some people on this board would appreciate the heads up, especially for the pliers since they are deceptively marked USA on the product for some reason. Again, please don't turn this into a debate about offshore vs. domestic tools or a brand bashing thread. Only sharing the information since I know some people care about this (and I'm glad I noticed before I bought it).

 

[ibedayank]

assembled means put togather NO parts have be made here inside the borders of the usa
just put togather here in then packaged here

 

[toolmaker1]

Thank you for the head's up. I will be in the market for a few pullers soon and sears was going to be my first stop. Now I guess I will look elsewhere.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Thank you for the head's up. I will be in the market for a few pullers soon and sears was going to be my first stop. Now I guess I will look elsewhere.

Well, like I said, the 2 and 3 jaw gear puller style, of which I own all three they sell, are still US-made by Western Forge apparently. Those, however, were the only US-made pullers I could find, nothing else seems to be domestic anymore.

 

[472scout]

As much as I hate what's happening I actually think Sears has done very well to keep USA tools on the floor this long. US factories are closing left and right driving up costs while their target market insists on wallyworld prices more and more each day. Supply and demand.

 

[woody 73]

As far as I could tell all the tap & dies are coming from china, hex keys and files coming from both china and India.

 

[Fedwrench]

These have actually been imported for a few years now. All of those items were supplied by KD tools. Now even the KD versions of those tools are imported. What really blows is the steering wheel puller forcing screw is now about half as thick as the old US made version.
I still blame the joint venture between Cooper industries and Danaher resulting in the birth of the Apex Tool Group which has led to the Chinafication of formerly US made tool companies so Gearwrench could expand. I'm headed to AAPEX and SEMA next week. Craftsman has a booth in Sema this year. I'm curious as to what they'll have displayed.

 

[jk47]

These have actually been imported for a few years now. All of those items were supplied by KD tools. Now even the KD versions of those tools are imported. What really blows is the steering wheel puller forcing screw is now about half as thick as the old US made version.
I still blame the joint venture between Cooper industries and Danaher resulting in the birth of the Apex Tool Group which has led to the Chinafication of formerly US made tool companies so Gearwrench could expand. I'm headed to AAPEX and SEMA next week. Craftsman has a booth in Sema this year. I'm curious as to what they'll have displayed.

Maybe let the Craftsman rep know about this message board, and the fact that we are not blind to the fact many tools are now foreign made. Might fall upon deaf ears, but it's worth a shot.

 

[hammergodthor]

These have actually been imported for a few years now. All of those items were supplied by KD tools. Now even the KD versions of those tools are imported. What really blows is the steering wheel puller forcing screw is now about half as thick as the old US made version.
I still blame the joint venture between Cooper industries and Danaher resulting in the birth of the Apex Tool Group which has led to the Chinafication of formerly US made tool companies so Gearwrench could expand. I'm headed to AAPEX and SEMA next week. Craftsman has a booth in Sema this year. I'm curious as to what they'll have displayed.

You got it! They took Kobalt, Craftsman, and a few others with them, right down the Chinese drain. Craftsman tools are now worthless, and will possibly cost Sears the entire Craftsman enterprise; all so a few CEO's could get a bonus.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

These have actually been imported for a few years now. All of those items were supplied by KD tools. Now even the KD versions of those tools are imported. What really blows is the steering wheel puller forcing screw is now about half as thick as the old US made version.
I still blame the joint venture between Cooper industries and Danaher resulting in the birth of the Apex Tool Group which has led to the Chinafication of formerly US made tool companies so Gearwrench could expand. I'm headed to AAPEX and SEMA next week. Craftsman has a booth in Sema this year. I'm curious as to what they'll have displayed.

EXACTLY!! Apex/Danaher means more Gearwrench garbage across the board. Most everything at Napa is now you guessed it, rebadged Gearwrench. If Sears listens to the consumers more than the CEO's, they'll drop Apex like a hot rock and farm production out to one of the few remaining American enterprises.

 

[ibedayank]

kd tools is apex tool group
95% of tools in sears now are apex tool group made
Armstrong is also owned by apex

 

[ibedayank]

SK .... USED to make some craftsman stuff...
damn good stuff it was to

 

[Fedwrench]

kd tools is apex tool group
95% of tools in sears now are apex tool group made
Armstrong is also owned by apex

True and Armstrong factories still pumps out most of the US made sockets, ratchets, extensions, raised panel wrenches, etc.
However, the KD hand tools line was killed off a few years ago to allow for Gearwrench's expansion. Look at current versions of Napa profesional hand tools and Allen and you'll see alot of rebadged Gearwrench. There were a few previously KD designs that are now branded Armstrong such as the knurled handled 36 tooth quick release ratchet or that 45 tooth non quick release round head ratchet.
However, I don't know who is making the Chinese Craftsman polished tools. The tools don't resemble Gearwrench tools because the new Craftsman wrenches have those fat bulky open ends.
Lastly, the voting with your dollars works both ways. If you don't like PRC made Craftsman don't buy it but, if you like US made Craftsman, you need to buy it new from Sears whenever you can.

 

[pipsters]

As much as I hate what's happening I actually think Sears has done very well to keep USA tools on the floor this long. US factories are closing left and right driving up costs while their target market insists on wallyworld prices more and more each day. Supply and demand.

Yes I agree. Sears has tried IMO to keep it US made. You just can't compete when you product sells for $3/socket and you can buy one at Harbor Freight for $1. Harbor Freight / Northern Tool offer excellent value and good quality tools that will serve anyone from the DIY'er to the pros (ie MechanicNamedJohn).

Craftsman tools are on the order of 2x-3x as expensive as the equivalent Chinese imports produced by Danaher, for most people that is incredible hard to justify. It was for me until I got a $70k a year pay raise. I used to exclusively shop at Harbor Freight, it was what I could afford. That is also part of Sear's problem, the reduction in the middle class which has resulted in less money for people to spend on quality products.

 

[Mr.Nutcase]

Makes me sad......................

 

[dudutzu905]

Craftsman 10 pc. Crowfoot Flare Nut Wrench Set

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00942048000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3

if you look on the picture on their website it says USA but thats not what is in stores, instead "USA" now says "craftsman" and is made in china, I'm returning mine and spend and extra $20-30 and get a used set of snap on

 

[Skin]

Craftsman 10 pc. Crowfoot Flare Nut Wrench Set

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00942048000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3

if you look on the picture on their website it says USA but thats not what is in stores, instead "USA" now says "craftsman" and is made in china, I'm returning mine and spend and extra $20-30 and get a used set of snap on

They switched to imported flare tools quite some time ago because of SKs troubles, nothing new, but the site should be updated to reflect that.

Look for a set of KD if you dont want to spend a lot. They fly under the radar and generally only fetch around $20-$30, even new.

Finally, the reversible snap ring pliers pictured, while they still said "USA" on the red plastic grips, the package says on the back, "Assembled in the US from global components." Perhaps the grips made in USA? Otherwise I wonder how they can get away with that.

The case the set comes in probably isnt made in the USA.

assembled means put togather NO parts have be made here inside the borders of the usa
just put togather here in then packaged here

Actually he paraphrased incorrectly a bit, the set actually says

"Made in the USA of domestic and globally sourced components".

 

[pipsters]

Craftsman 10 pc. Crowfoot Flare Nut Wrench Set

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00942048000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3

if you look on the picture on their website it says USA but thats not what is in stores, instead "USA" now says "craftsman" and is made in china, I'm returning mine and spend and extra $20-30 and get a used set of snap on

I bought the last ones in my store for $56 that were US made a few months ago.

 

[boohocky]

Yep, I just got back from Sears maybe a half hour ago, went in to buy some socket rails. I was looking around and couldn't believe how much stuff is now foreign and bearing a name that America built. It worries me to death that in a matter of time, I will no longer be able to purchase USA tools for the simple fact of nothing more than greed coming from the people making the descisions for these companies.

 

[gatewaysysop]

They switched to imported flare tools quite some time ago because of SKs troubles, nothing new, but the site should be updated to reflect that.

Look for a set of KD if you dont want to spend a lot. They fly under the radar and generally only fetch around $20-$30, even new.



The case the set comes in probably isnt made in the USA.



Actually he paraphrased incorrectly a bit, the set actually says

"Made in the USA of domestic and globally sourced components".

There was no case on the ones in the store, it was just a two piece set in the throw-away plastic packaging. Sorry if I botched the quote, my point and the point of the entire thread was to highlight that it wasn't made in the USA.

 

[Skin]

Except it is made in the USA. Its the same snap ring pliers the trucks sell.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Except it is made in the USA. Its the same snap ring pliers the trucks sell.

The point is to illustrate what I saw. I've put up a picture of the product in question and corrected the quote from the back of the package. Anyone can hit their local Sears and see for themselves and make their own choice. The fact that it's the same as what is on the tool trucks doesn't really inspire confidence in the COO, at least not for me, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Boiler]

Yes I agree. Sears has tried IMO to keep it US made. You just can't compete when you product sells for $3/socket and you can buy one at Harbor Freight for $1. Harbor Freight / Northern Tool offer excellent value and good quality tools that will serve anyone from the DIY'er to the pros (ie MechanicNamedJohn).

Craftsman tools are on the order of 2x-3x as expensive as the equivalent Chinese imports produced by Danaher, for most people that is incredible hard to justify. It was for me until I got a $70k a year pay raise. I used to exclusively shop at Harbor Freight, it was what I could afford. That is also part of Sear's problem, the reduction in the middle class which has resulted in less money for people to spend on quality products.

This exact theory is why wages are flat or decreasing in this country. Why do you think there is a reduction in the middle class? Because we send our dollars overseas and they don't come back to us like they would if we spent them with our neighbors. The more your justify selling out your neighbor (or cousin, parent) by not supporting USA made products, the more dry up, leaving less people with jobs (or good ones) and less money to support whatever you do for a living.

 

[dudutzu905]

They switched to imported flare tools quite some time ago because of SKs troubles, nothing new, but the site should be updated to reflect that.

Look for a set of KD if you dont want to spend a lot. They fly under the radar and generally only fetch around $20-$30, even new.

I did look for the KD ones, but I only could find them in singles and even then couldn't find 14mm and 18mm, pretty common sizes
does anyone know of a place where I could get a set or singles to make a set?

I bought the last ones in my store for $56 that were US made a few months ago.

lucky you

 

[GoBlue]

Yep, I just got back from Sears maybe a half hour ago, went in to buy some socket rails. I was looking around and couldn't believe how much stuff is now foreign and bearing a name that America built. It worries me to death that in a matter of time, I will no longer be able to purchase USA tools for the simple fact of nothing more than greed coming from the people making the descisions for these companies.

We always blame the greedy executives who want their company to *gasp* make a profit. Why dont we blame the cheep *** consumers with no pride who dont care where the product is made just that its cheep cheep cheep. I think a lot of this outsourcing is just catering to consumers wants. Your average consumer is a total *******.

 

[buffalobill]

lol, yep, most consumers ARE total assholes! idiots that buy garbage, break it or lose it, then buy MORE garbage is a big reason companies dont do as well anymore. No one cares if they lose their 5 dollar 200 peice tool set from garbage freight over the course of a year. they just go buy another one.

No one with any decent brand of tool does that. And that is why good companies are slipping, they are pandering to the idiots.

 

[Weedwaka]

I agree. Its the lazy, stupid, sell out consumers.

They would rather buy cheap sweat shop made china garbage and pocket a few dollars then support good jobs and family's in their own country.

These people will never make the connection between where their money is spent vs the their own country's slow demise and decreasing quality of life. Look 30% off at Harbour Freight ( Or if your Canadian, Princess Auto ) !!!

Those low low china tool prices wont look so good when you are making 8$ an hour and cant support your own family. Your friends and neighbours would help you out, but damned if they didn't just shut down the manufacturing facility where they all worked and offshore the **** out to china.

....well Im off to princess auto to get 400 drill bits for 6$

 

[pipsters]

This exact theory is why wages are flat or decreasing in this country. Why do you think there is a reduction in the middle class? Because we send our dollars overseas and they don't come back to us like they would if we spent them with our neighbors. The more your justify selling out your neighbor (or cousin, parent) by not supporting USA made products, the more dry up, leaving less people with jobs (or good ones) and less money to support whatever you do for a living.

We send roughly $720 billion a year more out of this country than we take in. Half of that is oil. Half again of that (roughly) is to one country and one alone. I'll let you guess which one that is. Roughly $20 billion a month to China more than we sell to them.

 

[GoBlue]

nevermind

 

[mrholeshot]

In before page 3 and the lock at page 5

 

[NWphotog]

In before page 3 and the lock at page 5

Lol, too true! A lot of Sir Rants-alots posting the usual diatribe.

 

[GoBlue]

lol...if that was in response to mine...my bad. I edited it...sometimes i need to remember to keep my mouth shut!

 

[gatewaysysop]

First things first, not trying to start a debate and prefer not to have my thread deleted because of other people's responses. Please, please take the debate somewhere else or start a new thread if that's the route you want to go.

I'm was begging up there, if you'll notice. Can we please not get my thread deleted or locked down? I asked at the outset and I'm repeating here since some people (particularly page 2, it seems) didn't see the this part.

 

[TWX]

We always blame the greedy executives who want their company to *gasp* make a profit. Why dont we blame the cheep *** consumers with no pride who dont care where the product is made just that its cheep cheep cheep. I think a lot of this outsourcing is just catering to consumers wants. Your average consumer is a total *******.

I blame both actually, and one more group, stockholders.

Stockholders want to make money, and are generally no longer interested in long-term money. They want money NOW. That means structuring businesses for profit NOW. It also can mean shortchanging the future in favor of now.

Corporate executives know that stockholders want to make money now, and they also want to make money now. They're essentially hired by the stockholders for this purposes, and stockholders are willing to pay an individual a lot of money, far more than they deserve, in my opinion, to get that executive to deliver money to the stockholder now.

Workers want as much wages as possible. Unfortunately, this flies in the face of what stockholders want, and to borrow an expression from the deposed Tsar of Russia, "to the strong, it is the weak who are wrong." So, those who are low get axed and production gets sent overseas where it doesn't cost as much for similar kinds of work per worker.

Consumers want to spend as little money as possible or to get as much stuff as they can for the money as possible. Unfortunately too many consumers don't study the products available to them and buy something substandard because it's less expensive to buy, because it's also less expensive to make. Granted, for a lot of consumers, cheap quality is either not a problem because of how little they'll use something, or is not a problem because they're so used to cheap that they're not let down when something fails.

Blame everyone. If we as a culture insisted on quality we wouldn't have LCD TVs that last 1/10 the amount of time that an older CRT TV lasts, we wouldn't have cheap plastic **** everywhere, and we wouldn't have so many fads.

 

[kippieland]

I think one thing to remember is that Sears doesn't actually make the tools, they are contract out with another company and put there name on it. Stanley made for awhile and now Apex (Danaher/Cooper) are making them. I think it makes it easier for Sears to find the cheapest manafacture as possible. I am almost 100% sure that Kobalt, HF, and Sears are made in the same factory....which looks like to be in Taiwan instead of China right now....which is another example of moving where ever it cheaper.

 

[slipjointed]

Lol, too true! A lot of Sir Rants-alots posting the usual diatribe.

Sorry, but IMO there isn't a single thing more important at this moment in time, than re-investing in the manufacturing base that will have to someday support my children, and their children. If incessantly standing on a soap box in front of my friends, neighbors, and the internet, is what it takes, then so be it.

snip

Precisely.

Today's greedy investors want as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, consequences be damned.

"Taking stock in a company" actually used to mean something.

It's possible for consumers, businesses, and stockholders, to all invest in their future for reduced short term gain, but long term security. Unfortunately, it seems they all could care less... or are just too stupid, or too nearsighted to realize it.



edit: I'd like to add, anyone who maintains that the blame lies on the consumer... if that was so, what need would these companies have to routinely hide the COO?

There used to be a time when these very same companies used to, as a rule, very conspicuously mark "USA" on the front of every package, as a marketing point. Then, the USA slowly moved to the back, then it shrunk, and then it was replaced by just about anything but USA, and in the very smallest print legally allowed (and sometimes smaller).

These companies have been willingly participating in a campaign aimed specifically at downplaying the importance of COO to the US consumer. It's hard to blame the American consumer for not caring about COO, when the products and packaging are intentionally designed to program them not to.

There are still many American companies operating successfully with 100% USA made product lines. Not only are they successfully operating, but they're successfully competing at the same price point as the import products, but with higher quality.

There is no real "need" to outsource for many products, other than squeezing one more drop of blood out of the turnip, in exchange for sacrificing a whole lifetime's worth of crops.

 

[NWphotog]

I'm was begging up there, if you'll notice. Can we please not get my thread deleted or locked down? I asked at the outset and I'm repeating here since some people (particularly page 2, it seems) didn't see the this part.

Respectfully Gateway, you don't get to chose the content of the posts in a thread. You get to chose the content of your posts in a thread. After that it goes on a ride. As has been pointed out previously anything after the first 3 pages isn't important and if it makes it to 5 it probably needs to be locked.

 

[Notwerk]

I find it kind of funny that Sears is getting into the outsource thing at a historically bad time for outsourcing. Fuel prices and Chinese wages are rising fast. I guess it's not entirely their call, as has already been pointed out. It's their reliance an Danaher's increasingly Chinafied product portfolio that has caused this mess, but you'd think that Sears would have noticed this and moved to protect their brand.

 

[pipsters]

I find it kind of funny that Sears is getting into the outsource thing at a historically bad time for outsourcing. Fuel prices and Chinese wages are rising fast. I guess it's not entirely their call, as has already been pointed out. It's their reliance an Danaher's increasingly Chinafied product portfolio that has caused this mess, but you'd think that Sears would have noticed this and moved to protect their brand.

I think hand tools are still a lot cheaper to make over there. Environmental regs are probably the biggest cost to tool manufacturers these days.

 

[GoBlue]

and lets face it...hand tools are probaly not the hardest thing in the world to manufacture or design for that matter.