More wiring questions

[bobbyu]

I'm getting ready to run wires for my lights and have a number of questions. The garage is 18x36 with 10' ceiling. I am planning on three switches at two doors to control the lights.

1. Can I run one 12-2 wire to the first set of switches and power them all from that one source or do I have to power each set of switches off its own home run on its own breaker?

2. Can I run 12-2 to the first one then 14-3 to the lights? I'm pretty sure this answer is
NO.

3.Is it still a good practice to have a little extra wire right above the box?

4. Running romex parallel to my trusses can I just staple to the side of the truss?

I do have to get it inspected. I've met once with the inspecter and stopped in again today with my questions but he was out.

Thanks for all the help.
Bop

 

[Mustang51js]

You can run 12-2 for all the lights if you don't overload the circuit after adding up all the lights being on.
You can run 14/3 to the lights but then you must keep the breaker at 15 amps
Stapling the wires is ok but wire must be 1 1/4 inch away from edge of stud
Your supposed to get everything inspected anytime you run new wires. But that's a decision you have to make.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you are going to use 14-2 in any part of the circuit, you MUST use a 15A breaker, so why not just 14-2 for everything.

The wire must be attached (stapled) within 6" (?) of the box. (The exception is when feed fir behind a finished wall.) The wire must also be "attached" to the box so that it can not be pulled backward. Plastic boxes are designed so that when the entrance tab is punched and left attached it acts as a barb and the wire can not be pulled backward.

 

[pattenp]

NM must be supported/stapled at intervals not exceeding 4.5' and within 12" of boxes.

 

[bobbyu]

What about powering the 3 switches? Can I run one 14-2 to the first switch then jumper off the back to the next then again to the next? I will only be running 6 lights. Two per switch. These are the one's I'm looking at. http://www.menards.com/main/p-2259118-c-6354.htm

Thanks

 

[Mustang51js]

You will be fine running the lights on one circuit,your running about 3-4 amps with them all on.

 

[theoldwizard1]

What about powering the 3 switches? Can I run one 14-2 to the first switch then jumper off the back to the next then again to the next?

Yes, as long as you are don't exceed 15A.

 

[justsam]

I am planning on three switches at two doors to control the lights.
You will need to run 14/3 between the two different switch locations

Can I run 12-2 to the first one then 14-3 to the lights? I'm pretty sure this answer is
NO.
The run to power the lights themselves will only require 2 conductors, 14/2

As has been stated here one 15 Amp breaker circuit is fine for all the lights you are specifying.

 

[bobbyu]

Does someone have a drawing or picture of wiring in a 4 way switch where the light is between the 4 way and one of the 3 way switches? I have this one that shows it at the end but I'm going to have it between the 4 way and one of the 3 ways.
http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/electrical/wiring-diagrams-4way.html
Thanks

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Bring the power wire into the switch box. Take three black pigtails and wirenut them with the incoming black power wire, and run one pigtail to each switch. Much neater than jumping switch to switch and makes each switch independently removable.

Charles

 

[Mustang51js]

Doesn't matter where the light is, it needs to go to one of the 3 way switches for it to work. There's a couple different ways to do it but hard to explain if your not familiar with the way the switches work. What do you have now,what wires go into what boxes,if you can tell me then I can walk you through how to connect the wires.

 

[bobbyu]

It is a new construction. I plan on a switch for two lights. Six lights total. I've run 14-2 from the panel to a three gang box where I will have three switches then 14-3 to the lights, then 14-3 on over to another row of 3 way switches. I plan on controling one set up lights with three swithes hence needing to have a 4 way switch. I have about all the wires run. Haven't got the osb up for the ceiling so no lights to wire yet. I was just looking for easy to follow diagrams which show the lights between the switches instead at the end of the curcuit. I have found a good daigram for 3 way with the light between the switches but not one that includes a 4 way. I'm pretty sure I have it figured out but just trying to be sure about it. I plan on starting to put in outlets and wiring switches tomorrow.
Thanks.
Bob

 

[Mustang51js]

The 4 way switch location needs two 14/3 to do it right. But from what you have explained you need to take the first box with the 14/2 feed and take the black wire onto the black screw. You need to run a 14/3 from one of your switches to another location. I don't know your switch locations so it's hard to explain. But say you have 14/3 from first box(1)to lights like you said, then down to another box(2) like you said. Now you need a 14/3 to another box.(box 3). Box1 would have the black feed onto the black screw,whites tied together,and black-red from 3 wire onto the two brass terminals. Up in the lights you would have the white from the 14/3 from box one,that white goes to your nuetral of the light. The white wire from the other 14/3 would get taped black and go to the black of the light. The black and reds from 14/3 get tied together.Now in the box2 you will have two 14/3 wires, take the whites and tie them together,the black and red from one set will go on the line side of the 4 way and black and red from the other set goes on the load side of the 4 way. Now in the last box3 you will have just black red and white, the white goes to the black screw of the 3 way and the black-red goes to the brass terminals of the 3 way. You will also have grounds but they all go together so no need to explain that. Let me know if any of this makes sense.

 

[justsam]

Does someone have a drawing or picture of wiring in a 4 way switch where the light is between the 4 way and one of the 3 way switches? I have this one that shows it at the end but I'm going to have it between the 4 way and one of the 3 ways.
http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/electrical/wiring-diagrams-4way.html
Thanks

Your original post states that you will have three light switches at two different locations. I understand this to mean you would like to switch light bank one, light bank two or light bank three ON/OFF at TWO different locations.

If the above is correct you have no need for any four way switches, you need 6 three way switches.

 

[RPH]

Consider putting your lights on 2 separate breakers. Nothing worse than popping the cb and total darkness descends upon you while running the table saw or such. Cheap insurance for safety.

 

[bobbyu]

Your original post states that you will have three light switches at two different locations. I understand this to mean you would like to switch light bank one, light bank two or light bank three ON/OFF at TWO different locations.

If the above is correct you have no need for any four way switches, you need 6 three way switches.

I plan on controling one bank at three different locations and the other two banks at only two doors. I have a door I won't be using a lot but still want to be able to turn some lights on when I come in there and then shut them off at the other doors. I think I got it straight on how to wire them. I just got to get the OSB up so i can mount lights.
Thanks
Bob

 

[bobbyu]

Can someone tell me if I can secure 6-2 NM with these? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-1-2-in-1-Hole-Plastic-Cable-Clamps-12-Pack-PPC-1550UVB/100175900?N=5yc1vZc5l4

 

[Mustang51js]

It would work for running wires on top of Sheetrock, i wouldn't use it for inside the walls, I use bigger romex staples

 

[bobbyu]

I couldn't find bigger staples last week at Menards. Maybe this week. I just saw these listed on Home depot site when I did a search for staples. I didn't know if they would pass code.
Thanks
Bob

 

[Champanada]

Okay bobbyu, here's the deal...... I am pretty sure that you will not have so many lights in that garage to overload a 20 amp circuit so, this is what you do.... run ONE 12/2 romex to ONE switch box and power BOTH 3-way switches in that box. Run 12/3 to BOTH the 3-way in the first run AND the 4-way in the second run. From the 4-way, run another 12/3 to the 3-way at the other end of that run; tie the neutrals (white) together (pass-through) with the others being the travelers. from the other 3-ways, run a switch leg to the lighting and connect the neutrals to the lights and the black (switch leg) to the light black.............. DONE!

 

[Beemer533]

Okay bobbyu, here's the deal...... I am pretty sure that you will not have so many lights in that garage to overload a 20 amp circuit so, this is what you do.... run ONE 12/2 romex to ONE switch box and power BOTH 3-way switches in that box. Run 12/3 to BOTH the 3-way in the first run AND the 4-way in the second run. From the 4-way, run another 12/3 to the 3-way at the other end of that run; tie the neutrals (white) together (pass-through) with the others being the travelers. from the other 3-ways, run a switch leg to the lighting and connect the neutrals to the lights and the black (switch leg) to the light black.............. DONE!

Why 12awg? As stated above he isn't overloading a 15A circuit.. I would not want to wire up several switches in a box with 12awg, what a pain... I would rather split the circuit if I had to and use 14awg.. 2 12/3 and a 12/2 in one 2 gang box

 

[Champanada]

Beemer.......... that is always an option, but you are actually creating more work for yourself by doing it that way. My reason is expandability; you wouldn't have ANY problems putting in additional lights and just tapping into one of the other switched circuits. I know that it is MUCH easier dealing with 14/2 than it is 12/2, but it really isn't like you would be doing this every day............ do it once and forget it.

 

[bobbyu]

Well I did split the circuit and ran 14-2 for two sets of lights and one set off another run of 14-2. I believe I have it wired like Champanada described above. I hope to pick up some lights tomorrow. I was hoping to see them go on sell this week but no such luck. Most likely next week after I buy them this week. I did find some plastic staples for #6 wire. So I think all my wires are ran, stapled and terminated in the panel. Turned power on the sub today. Checked all outlets and so far everything looks good. Now the lights. Thanks.
bob

 

[Beemer533]

Beemer.......... that is always an option, but you are actually creating more work for yourself by doing it that way. My reason is expandability; you wouldn't have ANY problems putting in additional lights and just tapping into one of the other switched circuits. I know that it is MUCH easier dealing with 14/2 than it is 12/2, but it really isn't like you would be doing this every day............ do it once and forget it.

That may be true, I just prefer to keep the circuits separate and use 14 awg... By separating them, even with 14 awg I can still add on in the future. I tend to overwire a bit, so I usually have expandability regardless. To each his own of course!

 

[Falcon67]

Why 12awg? As stated above he isn't overloading a 15A circuit.. I would not want to wire up several switches in a box with 12awg, what a pain... I would rather split the circuit if I had to and use 14awg.. 2 12/3 and a 12/2 in one 2 gang box

I skipped the 3 way for the shop lights by the door, but I do have three "zones" of lights wired from the same 3 switch box. And I wired everything with 12-2. I didn't want to source an odd breaker or buy yet-another-type-of-wire, so the whole thing is 12 awg. The only exception is the 5kW heater, wired with 10 AWG and fused at 30A.

 

[bobbyu]

I to set up three switches for three zones. I installed two lights on my west zone and amazing but they worked just as they should. Should get the rest of the OSb up on the ceiling this week so I can install the other 4 lights. I thought about running 12-2 to the switches but I didn't think that would pass, mixing 12-2 and 14-3 in the same circuit. I had ordered 14-3 and 14-2 for the lights not thinking about running 12-2. I don't plan on changing any of it. I still have room to expand if I want to. 14-2 is definitely easier to work with. Thanks

 

[bobbyu]

I purchased a couple of these lights http://www.menards.com/main/p-2313552-c-7495.htm
and mounted them flush to the osb I have up on my ceiling then I started to wonder if they will pass inspection. The say they are for tight spaces on the box but says "grid light" on the box. They work good and I havn't noticed them getting hot. They are the only open face light I found at Menards. Any suggestions what would work flush mounted? Thanks
bob

 

[Mustang51js]

You should be able to screw them right to the ceiling,you can use Sheetrock screws since they will go right threw the metal of the lights.

 

[Mustang51js]

Only issue inspector might have is they have no cover, you may need to buy individual clear bulb covers for inspection and then return them after since they are like $5 each.

 

[bobbyu]

Yea I just screwed them to the OSB and I was looking for covers but didn't see any at the store but I didn't find anybody to ask at the time. Thanks

Bob

 

[bobbyu]

Well I passed my inspection, so I'm good. I have another question. I'm going to put a light up in my attic. When the inspector was up there I decided I need a light up there. I talked with him about it. Anyway I'm going to put up a fixture in a plastic box feeding it with 12-2 from the garage door outlet. The fixture just has connections for the neutral and the hot. Do I just not connect it to anything? To the neutral side? I don't want to cut it in case I might need it in the future. Thanks for all the help.
Bob

 

[pattenp]

Are you asking about the ground wire? Are you saying the fixture has no ground connection?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Probably a plastic or porcelain bulb holder. If attached to a metal box, indeed, there is nothing to attach the ground wire to, just fold it back in the box, If a metal box, ground it to the provided ground point in the box with an 8-32 screw the hole is threaded for.

I very much dislike plastic boxes in a shop. Guess its my desire for "industrial strength".

Charles

 

[pattenp]

I think you meant to say plastic box.

Probably a plastic or porcelain bulb holder. If attached to a metal box, indeed, there is nothing to attach the ground wire to, just fold it back in the box, If a metal box, ground it to the provided ground point in the box with an 8-32 screw the hole is threaded for.

I very much dislike plastic boxes in a shop. Guess its my desire for "industrial strength".

Charles

 

[bobbyu]

Are you asking about the ground wire? Are you saying the fixture has no ground connection?

That is right. A cheap plastic fixture. It has not spot for a ground wire.

 

[pattenp]

Then do as Charles suggested. Just fold the ground wire back up into the box. Do not cut it off because it may be needed later.

 

[bobbyu]

Then do as Charles suggested. Just fold the ground wire back up into the box. Do not cut it off because it may be needed later.

That is what I did. I wish I had known it was such a cheap thing before I ripped the package open. The price should of been a clue.
Thanks
bob

 

[Slednut]

When I wired my 4 and 3 way switch circuits I googled 3 and 4 way switch diagram, then clicked on images.

 

[Mustang51js]

That is what I did. I wish I had known it was such a cheap thing before I ripped the package open. The price should of been a clue.
Thanks
bob

It's plastic that's why it doesn't have a ground,doesn't mean it's cheap,just there's nothing to ground on it. If you must hook up the ground go buy a pull chain with an outlet on it, then you will need to hook in the ground.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

It's plastic that's why it doesn't have a ground,doesn't mean it's cheap,just there's nothing to ground on it. If you must hook up the ground go buy a pull chain with an outlet on it, then you will need to hook in the ground.

Never seen a plastic or porcelain lamp holder with a receptacle that was anything other than two prong.

Personally, I prefer the old porcelain lamp holders, just be careful with the screws to not chip or break the fixture. Put two or three in the attic with a switch at the entrance. install CFL bulbs and when you forget to turn them off, you won't waste much electricity or generate much heat.

Charles