Hi everyone, this is my first ever post on the garage journal. I have landed here after doing tons of research on a vise I have and haven't been able to get any information on. It's a Morgan Co Chicago Vise, 3 1/2 S. The jaws are 3 1/2" and its a swivel base. The branding on the side is something I haven't seen before though. It's different from all the others I have seen pictures of online. I'v seen the Morgan Chicago but my vise says," MORGAN VISE CO CHICAGO." I know it's not a huge difference just would love to know if anyone has any type of info on this vise. Thanks in advance if anyone is able to help me with any information.
Morgan Vise CO Chicago
- Thread starter smkkonkel
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tool_scrounge
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Looks to be an early combination vise without the pipe jaws.
Fierljeppen
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Yeah, I'd agree, it looks like a really early version of a Morgan no. 87 combination vise. The old style base and "Morgan Vise Co." casting represent a Morgan combo vise from the early 1920's.
George Morgan acquired a defunk Massey Vise Co. in 1914 and sold their line of vises until sometime in 1921, when he started selling Morgan vises. The magazine ads below are from 1921 and the catalog no. 20 page is from the early 1920's.
Nice find! It's a pretty rare Morgan vise for sure.
George Morgan acquired a defunk Massey Vise Co. in 1914 and sold their line of vises until sometime in 1921, when he started selling Morgan vises. The magazine ads below are from 1921 and the catalog no. 20 page is from the early 1920's.
Nice find! It's a pretty rare Morgan vise for sure.
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MattGavriloff
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Bumping this thread to drop these pics here. My "new" Morgan Vise Co. 3 1/2 S. (Not new obviously, but she's a creampuff) Estate sale basement find when I got there early the first day. Ran out of time tearing it off and couldn't find the pipe jaws...:-(
Went back today and found them!
Fier's info about it likely being from the 20's only makes it even better!
Am I missing something or did Morgan go "backwards" from replaceable jaws to solid ones?
Went back today and found them!
Fier's info about it likely being from the 20's only makes it even better!
Am I missing something or did Morgan go "backwards" from replaceable jaws to solid ones?
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Fierljeppen
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I don't recall the Morgan Vise Co. ever having a machinist or combo vise with solid jaws. Do you have an example of one that you could share with us?
MattGavriloff
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CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!
And happy to oblige!...Though it's not a combo, I would consider a swivel jaw a "machinists," no? Jaws solid as a rock on this girl!!
More questions than answers it seems?!?!....
This is another "puff" of a vise (my only two Morgan's!)...came to me coated in cosmoline, apparently since just after WW2 when it was packed up. (I can't verify it, but was told it built boats in Sheboygan, Wisconsin before the war, and was taken home by its user afterwards) Seems pretty nice to have done that kind of work, but some people took care of their things.
I was under the impression, mistakenly it seems, that this vise with solid jaws was older than the removables? (Maybe it still is....Very early?) I know it's old, pre Aurora at least obviously, but do you know when they made the change in "Morgan Vise Co, Chicago" stamp to, or from, the plain "Morgan, Chicago" one?
And happy to oblige!...Though it's not a combo, I would consider a swivel jaw a "machinists," no? Jaws solid as a rock on this girl!!
More questions than answers it seems?!?!....
This is another "puff" of a vise (my only two Morgan's!)...came to me coated in cosmoline, apparently since just after WW2 when it was packed up. (I can't verify it, but was told it built boats in Sheboygan, Wisconsin before the war, and was taken home by its user afterwards) Seems pretty nice to have done that kind of work, but some people took care of their things.
I was under the impression, mistakenly it seems, that this vise with solid jaws was older than the removables? (Maybe it still is....Very early?) I know it's old, pre Aurora at least obviously, but do you know when they made the change in "Morgan Vise Co, Chicago" stamp to, or from, the plain "Morgan, Chicago" one?
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Fierljeppen
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Wow! MattGavriloff, you are on an absolute "vise tear" lately. When I saw your Morgan no. 345 swivel jaw vise, I thought the same thing as exmaxima1, "that must be a really old Morgan".
I went to my database to try to find some clues and the earliest ad's I could find were from (1921-1922), which clearly indicated in graphics and words that the jaws were removable.
So, your Morgan must be a "never seen before" vise from 1920. Previous Massey Vise Co. research for myself indicated that George Morgan was outsourcing vise manufacturers, just before he transitioned to the Morgan Vise Co. in 1920. So, I started checking out other mfg's and guess who was producing that same style at that time? The Hollands Mfg. Co. of Erie, Ohio. Here's an example from GJ member Vise, of his Hollands no.44 vise.
It has the same style and features, which really makes me believe that you have a super rare 1920 Morgan no. 345 vise, manufactured by the Hollands Mfg. Co.
Here's the Morgan Vise Co. dateline based on many references from my database.
I went to my database to try to find some clues and the earliest ad's I could find were from (1921-1922), which clearly indicated in graphics and words that the jaws were removable.
So, your Morgan must be a "never seen before" vise from 1920. Previous Massey Vise Co. research for myself indicated that George Morgan was outsourcing vise manufacturers, just before he transitioned to the Morgan Vise Co. in 1920. So, I started checking out other mfg's and guess who was producing that same style at that time? The Hollands Mfg. Co. of Erie, Ohio. Here's an example from GJ member Vise, of his Hollands no.44 vise.
It has the same style and features, which really makes me believe that you have a super rare 1920 Morgan no. 345 vise, manufactured by the Hollands Mfg. Co.
Here's the Morgan Vise Co. dateline based on many references from my database.
- Morgan Chicago.......(1920-1967)
- Morgan Aurora.........(1968-1972)
- Morgan Milwaukee...(1972-current)
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MattGavriloff
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Yeah we talked about the Massey/Morgan connection a few weeks back when I posted my Massey Clincher 34. I knew we were dealing in the 20's or sooner but I'd never have guessed I may have the ONLY known example of a Morgan with solid jaws!!
There is some resemblance for sure to that Holland's. I don't know if it's "the same enough"...lol...to definitively name them as the manufacturer. I wonder when that 44 is from, if there's a way to date them? When did Hollands form? The shape of the back of the swivel jaw is different, as well as the reinforcing bosses on the sides, and the base, but I can see a similarity, or evolution in design possibly, for sure.
Just what I needed, another mystery vise!....lolol
There is some resemblance for sure to that Holland's. I don't know if it's "the same enough"...lol...to definitively name them as the manufacturer. I wonder when that 44 is from, if there's a way to date them? When did Hollands form? The shape of the back of the swivel jaw is different, as well as the reinforcing bosses on the sides, and the base, but I can see a similarity, or evolution in design possibly, for sure.
Just what I needed, another mystery vise!....lolol
Fierljeppen
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It's not exactly the same, but the main features, including the jaws scream Hollands Mfg. Co. That particular Hollands no. 44 was first introduced in 1917, so the time period is correct.
I have a Hollands no. 6 machinist vise, that was private labeled exclusively for Crerar, Adams & Co. from the same era that is slightly different than the standard Hollands machinist vises.
I'd bet my neighbors farm that your Morgan vise was manufactured by the Hollands Mfg. Co.
Hollands Mfg. Co. That particular Hollands no. 44 was first introduced in 1917, so the time period is correct.I have a Hollands no. 6 machinist vise, that was private labeled exclusively for Crerar, Adams & Co. from the same era that is slightly different than the standard Hollands machinist vises.
I'd bet my neighbors farm that your Morgan vise was manufactured by the Hollands Mfg. Co.
MattGavriloff
Well-known member
Your picture swayed me some, looking through Morgan and Holland's vises, active and sold, on eBay and I agree completely. The jaw serrations are very unique, at least I haven't seen any quite like it before.
So my "Morgan Chicago No. 345" was made by Holland's, branded as a Morgan, likely before 1920 when ol' George began making his own, which as far as I can find you guys are indeed correct; all have replaceable jaws.
VERY COOL!! Now that's a story!
So my "Morgan Chicago No. 345" was made by Holland's, branded as a Morgan, likely before 1920 when ol' George began making his own, which as far as I can find you guys are indeed correct; all have replaceable jaws.
VERY COOL!! Now that's a story!
steaks&anvils
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Cool find! Great that everyone was able to help you identify it and validate it's rarity!
Have you posted it's vital stats over on the vise info thread? Also, can you add the information about hollands making it too?
It would be a shame for detective work like this to be lost when a small thread fizzles into history...
MattGavriloff
Well-known member
I haven't posted it's stats over there (I don't think) since there already was a 345 on the sheet, but I will sometime here now that I know mine is "different". I'll let Kevin (I think he's the stat master...lol) know to make a note about its origins as well. Right now it's half cleaned/assembled. I may have weighed it when I got it though, I can't remember. Have to check my notes.
I've actually been much more active in the vise jnfo thread recently with a couple finds Specifically I have a mystery vise that is thus far unidentifiable, so anyone here that hasn't see it take a look and HELP!...lol. I won't muddy up this thread with a bunch of none Morgan pics, but here is one of said vise for anyone that may know.
And a big THANK YOU for the sleuthing and history lesson on what I thought was a very nice, but fairly ordinary vise!!
I've actually been much more active in the vise jnfo thread recently with a couple finds Specifically I have a mystery vise that is thus far unidentifiable, so anyone here that hasn't see it take a look and HELP!...lol. I won't muddy up this thread with a bunch of none Morgan pics, but here is one of said vise for anyone that may know.
And a big THANK YOU for the sleuthing and history lesson on what I thought was a very nice, but fairly ordinary vise!!
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steaks&anvils
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Thanks.
FWIW, I handle data for a living, keeping/storing information in a usable way is how I think. It is not helpful if data cannot be retrieved when needed.
The vise information thread seems to be for the actual storage of vice stats, reference material, a central place for information. Good pictures are also valuable, example: a model may be listed as a stationary vise, but no example of the swivel base is shown. Or no picture is actually on file for that vise.
The big vise thread is a great place for general information, questions etc. Then when mysteries are solved and questions answered, the stats can be posted on the information thread and added to the spreadsheet.
The vise repair thread is for all things "vise fixing".
Individual manufacturer threads can be good to keep specific make/model information. Like the reed date thread and the wilton thread. Or the craftsman vise thread (where they are keeping count of the models found).
Problem with lots of small threads is they get lost and this site has historically not been easy to query.
MattGavriloff
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I've always had the best results using google and narrowing within: "site:www.garagejournal.com"
Then I dig through the thread results. I agree though, small threads are lost easily.
Then I dig through the thread results. I agree though, small threads are lost easily.
Fierljeppen
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The GarageJournal has a very good search engine that works well with all threads, big and small. It's not a database site, nor is it meant to be one. There's much better ways for GJ members to organize information that would be of interest to them.
Going around to all the small threads and telling people what to do all the time leads me to believe that you're a "passive control freak". If you want add something positive to the vise community, start posting quality content.
Shiftless
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Here is my Holland’s 43 1/2 for comparison. Note the cast in place jaws and the pattern of serrations.
MattGavriloff
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SHIFT, Do the serrations have a subtle "arc" to them, similar to Reeds jaws? It's hard to tell from the picture. Other than the different shaped feet though, if I cover up the brand stampings, I'm looking at my Morgan!
As an aside, I told my wife the story about the Morgan's origins (not because I thought she would care, but because she insisted on asking why I was staring at THAT specific one the other night...lol). Oddly enough, she found it quite interesting, and I think that's the first time she's ever listed to a full story about one of the vises around the garage/house...lol
As an aside, I told my wife the story about the Morgan's origins (not because I thought she would care, but because she insisted on asking why I was staring at THAT specific one the other night...lol). Oddly enough, she found it quite interesting, and I think that's the first time she's ever listed to a full story about one of the vises around the garage/house...lol
Shiftless
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Matt:
Here is a close up showing the serration pattern. Yes, there is a slight curve.
Here is a close up showing the serration pattern. Yes, there is a slight curve.
MattGavriloff
Well-known member
That's what I wanted to see! I'm pretty sure this case is closed...lol. Never thought this Morgan, or my Mystery Vise, would be so unique. Thanks all for the great information!
KMScott
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They use a large multiple cutter around a foot in diameter and drop it .06 deep, move over a 1/8 to 5/32 and drop the cutter again. Looks like around 30 degrees and then rotate again to get the pattern.Nice efficient way to cut serrations.
Manychines
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GhostintheMachineShop
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I think I have the same Morgan (Holland's?) 345
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Clint Pemberton
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Great find
Provincial
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On youtube, there is a site called "Unauthorized History of the Pacific War Podcast", which looks at the WWII campaign in the Pacific Theater. One of the hosts took a tour of a WWII battleship and recorded it, then posted it as:
Special Episode Virtual Tour of the Battleship North Carolina (BB-55) -YouTube
At 31:49 they are going through the machine shop, and you get a great view of a "Morgan Vise CO Chicago 360" swivel jaw vise. Since the ship was launched June 13, 1940, and commissioned on April 9, 1941, it pretty much dates the vise!
The whole tour takes an hour and eleven minutes, and is fascinating.
Special Episode Virtual Tour of the Battleship North Carolina (BB-55) -YouTube
At 31:49 they are going through the machine shop, and you get a great view of a "Morgan Vise CO Chicago 360" swivel jaw vise. Since the ship was launched June 13, 1940, and commissioned on April 9, 1941, it pretty much dates the vise!
The whole tour takes an hour and eleven minutes, and is fascinating.