Morton barn framing and ceiling questions

[bcparfitt]

Hi folks,

I'm working on a diy frame out of 30x60 Morton building. I'm trying to partition out 2 of the 'bays' in the building to form a heated 15x30 workspace. I got some free advice from a GC who described how he would approach the project, but after starting, I have some concerns about loads on our roof trusses. I don't have detailed drawings to post of the trusses at the moment, but I do have a photo I took of the work so far...

Trusses are 7' 7" on center.

My questions are:

1) Can I support the 2x8 rafters shown in the photo off of the trusses? The rafters are 16" OC and are secured at the trusses with joist hangers. The other end of the rafter is resting on the wall framing at the exterior edges of the barn. The drywall ceiling would obviously be screwed into the 2x8 framing being put in place. Can we suspend 2x8s and drywall from the trusses? I started with 2x8s for rafters thinking that I might be able to get some light storage space above the ceiling in the middle section of the roof. Based on some initial feedback from Morton, it sounds like I shouldn't do that.

2) I'm planning on building a partition wall at the third truss (not visible but directly off the photo on left side). This would give me a heated workspace of approximately 15x30. My thought for framing the partition wall was to screw a 2x6 header to the underside of the third truss similar to what is shown in the photo on the second truss. Note that the 2x6 you see screwed to the underside of the second truss is temporary only and is just being used to help support the 2x8 rafters as they are installed. The partition wall would then be framed between the sill plate which would be screwed to the floor and the header which would be fixed to the underside of the truss. Are there any concerns with floor heaving pushing that wall up into the truss? I'm in the western new york area and we do get some pretty cold winters.

With this partition wall in place, only the 2nd truss would carry an additional distributed load of ~20 2x8 rafters plus drywall. The partition wall would support the outboard end of the 2x8s over the second bay. The middle truss would support one end of the rafters of from both bays.

https://goo.gl/photos/dbVWePoXyBMaUkDJ9

I have the same question being reviewed by Morton, but am wondering if any of you have any insight.

Thanks for any input
Brian

 

[rieferman]

Trusses are carefully designed for certain loads, and I'm doubting that yours are designed to carry heavy loads and/storage. And, trusses are designed to deflect under load - the company I used to work with allowed room between top of wall and bottom cord (there are clips available for this connection) to allow for movement.

That said, if I understand your plan correctly, you plan to have a wall running parallel to your window wall to create the 15 foot width of your heated space. That wall will be right under the header you're suspending from above.... so why not rest the header on your wall? Then you can have storage, and accommodate movement etc. without worrying more about it. What's the benefit of suspending from the truss in this case?

 

[bcparfitt]

Trusses are carefully designed for certain loads, and I'm doubting that yours are designed to carry heavy loads and/storage. And, trusses are designed to deflect under load - the company I used to work with allowed room between top of wall and bottom cord (there are clips available for this connection) to allow for movement.

That said, if I understand your plan correctly, you plan to have a wall running parallel to your window wall to create the 15 foot width of your heated space. That wall will be right under the header you're suspending from above.... so why not rest the header on your wall? Then you can have storage, and accommodate movement etc. without worrying more about it. What's the benefit of suspending from the truss in this case?

You are correct. The partition wall will be running parallel to the window wall. I was going to tie the header of the partition wall directly to the underside of the truss, but it sounds like I need these clips you describe in your post. That 'header' you see suspended under the truss in the photo is just a temporary sill I am using to place rafters. That truss would eventually have rafters tied in on both sides of it to create my 15 foot wide space.

With that arrangement I'd still have a weight component of the rafters and some drywall on the middle truss visible in the photo. The outer two trusses would carry no load since the rafters would be resting on wall headers.

I'm not concerned about storage space overhead as I have ample room in the barn. The only load I'm looking to support is ceiling at this point.

 

[rieferman]

You are correct. The partition wall will be running parallel to the window wall. I was going to tie the header of the partition wall directly to the underside of the truss, but it sounds like I need these clips you describe in your post.

I don't see a need to touch the trusses at all. With a 15 foot wide room, and a ceiling that is carrying only sheetrock and insulation (and maybe a plywood top to protect the other side of the insulation), I'd just build a freestanding box that fits under the trusses (but doesn't touch them) for my room and call it a day. Two walls are exterior walls, so you'll have plenty of tip over prevention.

PS - Might as well take advantage of the storage space above this box/room.

 

[bcparfitt]

I don't see a need to touch the trusses at all. With a 15 foot wide room, and a ceiling that is carrying only sheetrock and insulation (and maybe a plywood top to protect the other side of the insulation), I'd just build a freestanding box that fits under the trusses (but doesn't touch them) for my room and call it a day. Two walls are exterior walls, so you'll have plenty of tip over prevention.

PS - Might as well take advantage of the storage space above this box/room.

My ceilings aren't all that high to begin with and I'd hate to lose 6" of headroom to build a ceiling under the trusses.

I see several folks here have finished off their ceilings using the ribbed metal panels. Seems like that might be a lighter weight option that would not put much load on the trusses at all. It looks like these could be fastened directly to the bottom chord of the trusses.

I expect I would then lay insulation on top of the panels from above. Would that make better sense?

The only question then becomes how to support the freestanding partition wall. It sounds like I do not want to fasten the wall header to the truss. I'd like to frame a garage door in the wall to be able to move larger things into and out of the shop. Not sure how I'll get enough support and rigidity in the wall to do that.

Could I use something like these truss clips to tie the wall header to the truss? Looks like these clips would still allow for the truss to slide up and down, while giving the wall some lateral stability at the top.

Thanks again for the thoughts and replies.

B

 

[gogolf0401]

Trusses are carefully designed for certain loads, and I'm doubting that yours are designed to carry heavy loads and/storage. And, trusses are designed to deflect under load - the company I used to work with allowed room between top of wall and bottom cord (there are clips available for this connection) to allow for movement.

That said, if I understand your plan correctly, you plan to have a wall running parallel to your window wall to create the 15 foot width of your heated space. That wall will be right under the header you're suspending from above.... so why not rest the header on your wall? Then you can have storage, and accommodate movement etc. without worrying more about it. What's the benefit of suspending from the truss in this case?

What are these clips you are referring to called? Where can I find them? Any pictures? Looking to add a partition wall tomorrow in my pole barn but sounds like I should be using these clips instead of fastening directly to the bottom of the truss.