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Morton Build & Solar Install 2 years Later

River19

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Mar 19, 2015
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52
(Sorry this is a long one)

Back in 2022 I documented my Morton Building build of a relatively modest 32x24 with 14' walls here on on GJ in this thread:


Concurrently we had begun working with a reputable company for a fairly robust grid-tied solar system for net metering here in NH. At the time there was some interest in how that solar build progressed etc. and as life sometimes moves quickly I never got around to following up on that project until now. But, I can now also provide some thoughts on what it has been like living with the solar system for the past 2+ years.

We needed the Morton completed as we were going to put 15 of the 39 panels on the roof. The other 24 panels were going to be on 2 stand-alone 4x3 arrays along the driveway adjacent to the Morton. Those 39 panels make up our 16kw system. The feeds from the 3 panel locations are consolidated at the Morton and then a trench was dug down he driveway to our garage and into an Enphase unit. There is also a system switch built in for when we lose grid power as we also have a Kohler full house standby generator setup and when that kicks on we need the solar tie to the grid to be killed to avoid issues.

Clearly, we use a boatload of power here as we both work from home, we are on well-water which of course uses power every time we turn on the faucet, hot tub, A/C, Forced hot air heat etc. so we are prime for supplementing with solar. For me, it is really a retirement play to minimize our power expenses (we're 50yo now). Can't control property taxes, healthcare costs etc. but I can do something about minimizing our power expenses and if we decide to add an EV to the vehicle collection we could also supplement that as well.

I say supplement as we are in New Hampshire and surrounded by trees and have the shortened winter sun as well as snow cover, newsflash solar panels don't really do much with 2' of snow on them and clearing them isn't really a great option without risking damage.

The Financials & Numbers:
The system was pricey (~$90K before tax rebate) as we opted for nothing on our house roof as I didn't want to pay off the system only to have to remove it to replace our roof, whereas the Morton is a metal roof that will outlast us most likely. Given our high cost of electricity and relatively high consumption (we had seen monthly bills of $400-650) the payoff timeline is really only ~8-9 years. 2024 was our first full year with the solar system and we made 62% of what we consumed for the entire year. We made 11.4MWh last year and consumed 18.4MWh. We make great power from March through the first couple weeks of October, December through February are relatively useless due to sun angle. We could and may take down some strategic trees to allow for some key additional mins/hours of good sun. We could also think about trimming consumption but all the large power consumers are efficient for what they are, but they exist and therefore **** power.

EDIT:
I forgot to mention, the reason for the 2 conduits is that we also took the opportunity to add a power panel to the Morton, and right now I have a couple outlets wired for quick power and lighting and will build out a full electrical plan in the coming months.

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rsparks64

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Mar 22, 2015
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Hill Country Texas
That pay off time seems too short based on what you were paying per month and the number of months the solar is effective, even if you eliminated monthly payments totally.
 
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River19

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That pay off time seems too short based on what you were paying per month and the number of months the solar is effective, even if you eliminated monthly payments totally.
When you factor in the incentives we received (which were significant as they almost halved the cost) and the assumed rate of electric rate increases year over year it lands right around 8-10year mark. Even if it is 12 years if I am off on the rate increase expectations (although they have actually increased more than I assumed so far) I'm fine with that.

The incentives in 2022 were very favorable which made this somewhat a no brainer for us.
 

CV428

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Dec 12, 2019
Messages
156
Be very, very, very careful with solar. We went with a large solar panel system 5 years ago, loved it at first, and it has been reliable. The company we went with went out of business, sold to Titan. Titan went out of business, now we have no warranty. I just got a notice that the monitoring agreement is null and void now too.

The bigger issue is that the interconnect agreement with the power company left loopholes for them to screw us over. Net metering sounds nice, but they play stupid and unethical games. Surprise fees, reduced credit value, etc. We went from $0 bills for 9 months a year to a minimum of $20, upwards of $400 per month now that the power company played games with numbers. I tried getting politicians involved, complete waste of time. Same scuzbuckets that pushed "Green energy" are strangely silent when their power company exec golfing buddies are putting the screws to solar owners. No golf carts or AC where they're all going someday...

Just be careful...
 
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River19

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Mar 19, 2015
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Appreciate the thoughts, sorry your experience was challenging. We technically own the system (financed with favorable equity line) so at least there isn't an additional middle man; The only other active players are the electric company and Enphase. If we feel the utility is starting to do shady things, we will explore other options. Our install and engineering company has been around for 30+ years locally in this space so if we need them, I feel good they will be there. But, if they go belly up, the technology and components aren't rocket science and my good friend is a master electrician who works on commercial solar projects so we can navigate whatever we need.

We do have a small minimum bill each month as that is part of the gig. One thing I do know is I didn't want to sign up for $600+/mo bills with endless rate increases either.
 
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CV428

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Dec 12, 2019
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156
Appreciate the thoughts, sorry your experience was challenging. We technically own the system (financed with favorable equity line) so at least there isn't an additional middle man; The only other active players are the electric company and Enphase. If we feel the utility is starting to do shady things, we will explore other options. Our install and engineering company has been around for 30+ years locally in this space so if we need them, I feel good they will be there. But, if they go belly up, the technology and components aren't rocket science and my good friend is a master electrician who works on commercial solar projects so we can navigate whatever we need.

We do have a small minimum bill each month as that is part of the gig. One thing I do know is I didn't want to sign up for $600+/mo bills with endless rate increases either.

I don't regret solar, I'm just eternally disappointed with the unethical actions of executives and politicians. We owns ours too, not leased or anything. Our ROI went from 15 years to 30 with the **** the electric company pulled.

If you do encounter electric company shenanigans (example: 15% credit vs 100% credit in net metering), the consultants recommend cancelling your interconnect agreement and setting up the system to not feed back to the grid (preferably, battery). Some solar owners find that ending the shady interconnect agreement allows for a truer net-metering vs the one with hidden fees and heavily penalized kwh credits.

I pulled 5 years of invoices from the electric company, with their purported numbers, and compared it to my enphase data. I put it all in Excel, found that the power company was frauding numbers and the $/kwh was off by as much as 4800% one month. Yes, 48x. I used something like 15kwh net and those turbo-clowns charged me something like $192.
 

Modern Garage

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Mar 26, 2015
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Southern Minnesota
I've had 10 KW of panels installed on a flat roof but that was on weighted sleds with no perforations. I've haven't investigated install on a sloped roof but obviously it needs bolts through the roofing. How is that installed and sealed on a metal panel roof? Bolt only though the valleys? RTV form in place sealing or washers? I need to re-roof my garage and I'm debating on material to use.
Joe
 

dcg9381

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Austin, TX
That pay off time seems too short based on what you were paying per month and the number of months the solar is effective, even if you eliminated monthly payments totally.
I question it too, 10 year payoff on turn key is 'sus.

But lets say $500/mo (power costs) * 12 months = $6k per year. @ 10 years = 60K.

That's about the system cost AFTER tax rebate, OP says he got more rebates than that, so we'll say total cost is $45k.

The OP made 62% of what they spent on power last years... So I'd SWAG that this won't pay for itself inside of 10 years... It's more like a payback of (best case) $300 a month, give or take... $45k / 300/mo (Savings) = 150 months... Not terrible.. Anything inside 20 is pretty good.

And that assumes 1:1 net meter that holds for the next 10 years, no "inter connect" fees. If the POC won't net meter, all bets are off.

And look, I love solar, but the math is the math.. And I get doing it "because".

The above does not factor in an increase in power price over life of the system.
 

ericm

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Apr 17, 2016
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Location
Southern Oregon
I've had 10 KW of panels installed on a flat roof but that was on weighted sleds with no perforations. I've haven't investigated install on a sloped roof but obviously it needs bolts through the roofing. How is that installed and sealed on a metal panel roof? Bolt only though the valleys? RTV form in place sealing or washers? I need to re-roof my garage and I'm debating on material to use.
Joe

For standing seam (or the modern interlocking seam that looks like standing seam) they use clips that fasten to the seams for a no penetration install.

For ag panel they have brackets that match the contour of the panels. The screws go in the sides of the peaks and they have a rubber seal to keep water out.

 
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River19

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Mar 19, 2015
Messages
52
@dcg9381 The increase in electric rates is the missing link on the assumptions to get into the 9-15 year mark......and the total net cost ended at ~$53K.

In 2024 our supplier increased rates by 25.8% specifically on the cost of the electricity and distribution. IMHO. there is absolutely no way you can do a ROI or hurdle calc on solar without factoring that in. From my cheap seats, I locked in the rate of electricity for 60-65% (weather dependent) of our supply. There is no way that is the only rate increase we see over the next decade. My assumptions were in the low single digit increases YoY.......due to regulators and approvals, the real increases tend to come in large chunks like the 25.8% increase.

From my perspective, even if we end up with a 12-15yr hurdle, that is more than fine for me.

I know we can also pick up some additional peak power producing hours with some selective tree trimming which would be great to get us to 70% or more of the yearly consumption, and there is also the ability to be less aggressive with the A/C usage etc.
 
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