Mossberg 890 ratchet

[baldytooltime]

Gentlemen may I introduce you to Frank Mossberg’s last ratchet produced, the 890. I’m figuring late 1920’s about same time as the 851 extention bar. Patent date as far as I can tell was APR 2 1918 which corresponds to a different ratchet. However, exactly 17 years later after patent expired Thorsen came out with M77 in 1935. Indestro and Wright followed years later with the open head / clipped cover design. It kinda reminds me of an enclosed Lane unique 1908 ratchet. This is my first post. I tried to deep dive as much as I could. I found no reference to this ratchet in any catalog or advertisement. Enjoy!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Frank Mossberg’s last ratchet produced,

Not sure about last. Certainly very late, late 1920's, if not into the 1930's, around that juncture when Mossberg was desperately trying to stay relevant with all kinds of weird hot-forged cold-broached concoctions and just about to merger with APCO. (Ads with tools labeled "Mossberg,", no "APCO-" prefix, continued to appear in catalogs after the merger, vestiges of a history so enduring and prominent it outlasted a formal change in business entity and name.)

But they made an interesting, similar, 10-tooth ratchet dubbed the No. 911. Catalogs or other records or references are very hard to come by from this period, so I have no substantive evidence of specific sequence, but I would think a ratchet they dubbed the No. 890 would've preceded a ratchet they dubbed the No. 911, sequentially. Then again, there are some weird indicators that the ratchets might be more similar than distinct, or even the same. More on that below.

There are a few examples of the No. 911 here on GJ. I know @3baygarage has one. Linked here.

Maybe you can compare notes with him.

The reason for doing so has more to it than just close part numbers. See more on that in my reply below.

I found no reference to this ratchet in any catalog or advertisement.

Here's an ad in a 1928 Motor Record for a very late socket set showing a No. 890 ratchet with a loop handle, similar to the handle on their ratcheting connecting rod wrench.



Here's a 1929 Shapleigh cat showing a merchandiser with a No. 911 ratchet.



And, most confoundingly, here's an ad for a No. 911 ratchet - with a No. 890 part number on the shank.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm going to link this post to the end of the thread where we've been discussing Late Era Mossberg, and vice versa, so it can be more readily found in months and years to come. (There's an A-Z Index in the Stocky thread at the very top of the forum for navigating to threads that are not currently seen or active on page 1.)

 

[3baygarage]

Nice grab. I saw that rat and thought it was the same one. It looks as though the 890 was also chrome, but it's mostly gone. Note how my 911 has pretty flaky chrome, which may only be a coincidence.
I will say the 890 teeth look even more exposed. Interesting. By the look of the anvil I'm assuming 2 pc gear construction too. Over all they look quite similar. Leads me to wonder if the 911 was a revised version, maybe for the gear teeth, while the catalog could have prior art with the new # listed. Cool either way.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Leads me to wonder if the 911 was a revised version,

That was my first thought as soon as I saw the 890. Developed at the same time, for sure, and the catalog with the "890" marking on the handle of a ratchet advertised as a No. 911 is very suggestive.

Your 911 doesn't have any patent markings, correct? OP thought APR 2, 1918 but I am seeing "APR. 8. 1913", which is a Tuesday, but not resonating for me. It may not be a Mossberg patent. Whatever it is, it's oddly nearly a full expiration cycle away from the production of the ratchet on which it is marked.

EDIT: There are no ratchet wrenches with that patent date in DATAMP. According to the Annual Report of the Commissioner of Patents for the Year 1913 there were eighteen (18) ratchet wrenches or mechanisms patented in 1913. None granted on April 8.

 

[baldytooltime]

Thanks so much. Your deep dives are way more effective. So it’s not the last. Never heard of 911 either. I agree patent date doesn’t match up with anything. If you look at 645 on 1915 and top pic of universal Apr 2 1918 they at least look alike but universal was quite revolutionary in design. Not exactly sure when Thorsen jumped on to making that M77 but it looks like 1935, which was too coincidental for me 17 year patent expiration. Anyhow thank you so much for all your research. Baldy

 

[four.cycle]

The Thorsen model 77 ratchet appears on page 11 of the 1931 Thorsen catalog.

 

[baldytooltime]

Well there goes that theory. So the date must be 1913???? Very strange patent date hopefully we will find another with the patent date clearly marked. Thanks for Thorsen reference!

 

[four.cycle]

no problem.
I have a mess of Mossberg material in a folder I have not yet gotten to, but it looks like it's earlier - 1908 and thereabouts.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If you look at 645 on 1915 and top pic of universal Apr 2 1918 they at least look alike

I don't know what "645" or "on 1915" means here. Please explain. I'd like to review what you say it looks like.

So the date must be 1913????

You're right there and can inspect it closer in person, but the marking sure looks like "PAT. APR. 8. 1913" to me from here.

Anyhow thank you so much for all your research. Baldy

My pleasure. Nice find! Thanks for posting. Welcome to GJ and if you're going to stick around, DO check out the Sticky at the top of the forum. In addition to the A-Z Index, there is an A-Z list of Mfgrs linked in there, too, and all kinds of other info. The A-Z Index is a handy finder for all members, due to the way the forum buries threads chronologically, and for new members, as a way to discover what topics (mfgrs, brands, types of tools, etc) already have a dedicated thread. Mossberg has three: Early, Middle, and Late.

 

[baldytooltime]

Mossberg M 645 ratchet wrench 28 Dec 1915.

US Patent: 1,165,995 - Wrench

US patent 1,165,995 Wrench was issued to Frank Mossberg of Attleboro, MA. It was granted on 12/28/1915. Ratchet "click" slides in slot in handle; head is two pieces bound together by upsetting.{br}This ratchet design was used in Mossberg's No. 645 ratch

www.datamp.org

Thanks I’ll try to figure out A-Z index.

 

[four.cycle]

^ it does not appear that 1165995 is the patent which applies to your specimen, although I could be missing something.

HERE is the "A-Z index" mentioned above

and HERE is the LIST

as an aside: Frank Mossberg had a boatload of patents.

 

[username2]

Very cool. I just saw a couple of 'Mossberg' extensions at the ReStore. I thought I'd leave them for the Mossberg collectors, but it was interesting. Usually, it seems like consumer goods companies went into weapons or other military accoutrements (for WWII), but I hadn't run into the opposite.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Usually, it seems like consumer goods companies went into weapons or other military accoutrements (for WWII), but I hadn't run into the opposite.

?? Not sure what this means. From 1889 through at least the late 1940's, Frank Mossberg's various companies (Mossberg Manufacturing Company, Mossberg Wrench Company, Frank Mossberg Company) and the company he left that merged with the Auto Parts Company to become APCO-Mossberg, a WWII supplier, always made tools and only tools, as far as I know.

EDIT: Oh, wait, if you're thinking the firearms maker, not the same company, and no relation.

 

[Beerhippie]

Very cool. I just saw a couple of 'Mossberg' extensions at the ReStore. I thought I'd leave them for the Mossberg collectors, but it was interesting. Usually, it seems like consumer goods companies went into weapons or other military accoutrements (for WWII), but I hadn't run into the opposite.

As above, not the same Mossberg.

But lots of arms manufacturers went into tools and consumer goods in the post-war/inter-war periods. After gearing up for wartime production, they were left with large, well-staffed manufacturing facilities and little market for arms.

 

[username2]

EDIT: Oh, wait, if you're thinking the firearms maker, not the same company, and no relation.

My mistake. It's an unusual enough name that I assumed they were the same.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

My mistake. It's an unusual enough name that I assumed they were the same.

No worries. I remember researching it many years ago, when I first heard the name associated with wartime tools, to see if it was a case of brothers. And your allusions to a case in reverse, like Winchester, only makes the association stronger if you don't realize they're different companies.