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Motion light trouble shooting

nbpt100

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I have a RAB STL200 motion detector with an incandescent fixture using a halogen bulb. The unit will not work. Started by replacing the bulb with 3 other bulbs and no luck. I measure 120V at the fixture when I tested it. What are the odds that all 3 new 75 Watt bulbs are bad? The motion light does appear to switch as it should. I measure no voltage when it should be off and 120 volts when I am in test mode and it should be on. But still no bulbs light up.

I called RAB customer tech service and was advised to hard wire directly to the fixture as a test. I will do that tomorrow. If it lights up it must be something in the sensor unit and that should be replaced. If not, the fixture may have an issue. But I can not wrap my head around how it can consistently measure 120 volts when it should but not illuminate any one of three new bulbs. I asked the tech guy is it possible the internal relay is not allowing enough current to flow to power a bulb but will still register 120VAC? He did not know. I am not very experience with this sensor stuff. I know basic electricity. What am I missing? Or said differently, what do I need to know that I obviously don't? Thanks in advance.
 
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like2wheel

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Are you measuring 120v at the bulb while it is installed?
It seems to me that you would have a serious voltage drop under load if that internal relay was not allowing enough current to light the bulb.
 

BillK

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What kind of bulbs are you using ? Have you tried the bulbs in a different fixture to see if they work ?

If these are the typical screw in base bulbs and you are trying to use an LED replacement, make sure the base of the new bulb is not stopping it from going all the way into the fixture. I have an old wall mounted lamp inside my house that will not work with most led bulbs because they do not screw in far enough to hit the center terminal.
 

Terry D

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What kind of bulbs are you using ? Have you tried the bulbs in a different fixture to see if they work ?

If these are the typical screw in base bulbs and you are trying to use an LED replacement, make sure the base of the new bulb is not stopping it from going all the way into the fixture. I have an old wall mounted lamp inside my house that will not work with most led bulbs because they do not screw in far enough to hit the center terminal.
I have also came across this problem many times
 
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nbpt100

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It has worked and is old. It uses type T4 bulbs. These have 2 prongs that you push right in. They are not LED and the STL200 Sensor will not power LED bulbs. So not even an option with this set up.

I am measureing the 120 volts in the socket with out the bulb installed.
 

Tools4Me

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Everything on the hot side of the circuit can be hooked up correctly (including the sensor), but if you have an open neutral wire somewhere you will have 120v at the bulb and no light. Electricity needs a complete path to work, not just a hot wire.
 

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nadogail

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If the bulbs are good when tested in another fixture, next make sure they are making contact with the socket. If the problem is in the fixture, repair it by replacement.

I have found the fixtures are so inexpensive that I replace them; why spend $50 dollars worth of time to make a $25 fixture work?
 

like2wheel

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Put a couple insulated alligator clips on an old extension cord & just hot wire the bulb to see if it works.
Or carefully rig it together with electrical tape.
 
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nbpt100

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After wiring the fixure directly to the hot and neutral the bulbs light up. I can only conclude there is some issue with the sensor unit. I will replace it. The wiring was fine. No corrosion. No discoloration indicating over heating. Nothing out of the ordinary. I can replace the sensor with one from HD that claims to work with any bulb so at some point it can be upgraded to LED's by only changine the fixture. I read some other posts about RAB lighting. Some have no problems while others have had no better or worse performance than the cheaper sensors at the box stores. Thanks for all of the reply's.
 
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like2wheel

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Yeah, I've been looking for something more reliable and saw that RAB info too.

I get a lot of random triggers, especially on windy days.
I've got a combination of conventional infrared & radar type (e-senlite). The conventional seem slightly better.
 
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nbpt100

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Yeah, I've been looking for something more reliable and saw that RAB info too.

I get a lot of random triggers, especially on windy days.
I've got a combination of conventional infrared & radar type (e-senlite). The conventional seem slightly better.
RAB certainly are more solid and robust on the physical side but the electronics may be no better(quality or design) than the cheaper stuff out there. IDK..... I am new to motion dection lighting. But just my initial impression. They do provide much better documentation from what I have seen and the phone support was decent. I don't like that you have to create an account and log in to get much product info off of their Web page. I am sick of giving everyone my personal information and needing one more PW to remember. They are not in the box stores or my local ACE. You have to buy on line or from a lighting store or electrical supply house. It appears They are catering to the trade and not the home owner.

Everything on the hot side of the circuit can be hooked up correctly (including the sensor), but if you have an open neutral wire somewhere you will have 120v at the bulb and no light. Electricity needs a complete path to work, not just a hot wire.
I thought more about your comment and do not quite understand it. If I test the socket with a volt meter and I am getting 120vac. Dont I have to have a good neutral and hot connection to get that reading? If I open the neutral it should read 0 VAC. What am I missing?. I like the jpg you attached. Simple and clear. If I had a clamp on AMP meter it would have provided more info. If I was testing for power with one of the antenna type of probes that gives a presence of voltage I agree with what you are saying. The Red hot wire would show voltage bu the white neutral would not. However I was using a volt meter and got an actual voltage reading. Did I Understand you correctly?
 

Tools4Me

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I thought more about your comment and do not quite understand it. If I test the socket with a volt meter and I am getting 120vac. Dont I have to have a good neutral and hot connection to get that reading? If I open the neutral it should read 0 VAC. What am I missing?. I like the jpg you attached. Simple and clear. If I had a clamp on AMP meter it would have provided more info. If I was testing for power with one of the antenna type of probes that gives a presence of voltage I agree with what you are saying. The Red hot wire would show voltage bu the white neutral would not. However I was using a volt meter and got an actual voltage reading. Did I Understand you correctly?
I apologize if I added to your confusion, I didn't mean to. When reading this thread before my first reply, I didn't catch the part where you said you probed the actual socket and you had 120v. People I have helped in the past often tag the hot with one probe and then go to ground or to a metal outlet box with the other probe and they say "everything is working because I have 120v". I thought that might have been happening here too. If you are probing the hot and neutral pin holes of the actual bulb socket, I misspoke, and there are really only three problems you could be having.

1- The socket makes a circuit connection when you probe the neutral pin hole but doesn't make a connection with the bulb pin when the bulb is installed (not your issue since you just tested this and said the bulb works when the socket is wired directly to 120v).

2- The internal motion sensor circuitry is bad.

3- Your "test button" circuitry is possibly bad (preventing the light from working when in test mode) and the motion sensor has a dial or switch for a photocell preventing the unit from working in normal use mode. If the photocell function is on, the motion sensor will only turn on the light when it's dark outside. If the photocell is actively seeing light, all your motion sensor's actions will be nullified and the light will stay off. If your unit has a photocell, find the photocell (often a small amber colored circle about the size of a pencil eraser top) on the unit and either turn it off (if possible) or put some opaque tape over it temporarily. That should trick the unit into thinking it's dark. Then try to get the motion sensor to trigger and turn your light on and see if it now works. Your funny symptoms of the light not working but the hot pin showing 120v might be the result of an internal motion sensor circuit board that's configured to allow the voltage to appear to be going through without any actual current being allowed to go through. A ghost voltage type scenario. Strange things like that sometimes begin happening as more electronics are added to home circuits and digital multimeters are used to test those circuits. Circuit boards can create ghost voltages as a result of their design, and unconnected wires traveling next to each other can also cause ghost voltages to appear. Digital multimeters are almost always high impedance devices when in voltage measuring mode, which means they will display super small ghost voltages or induced voltages as real voltages even if no actual useful power is present. Modern higher quality digital multimeters often have a LoZ function to allow a troubleshooter to test whether the voltage they are seeing is a ghost voltage or real voltage. Analog meters, by virtue of how they work (low impedance already) won't be fooled by ghost voltages. My digital multimeter doesn't have a LoZ function, so I bought a simple waterproof bulb socket and crimped insulated alligator clips to both the leads. I keep a 5w 120v heavy duty incandescent bulb installed in the socket. If I see voltage present in a circuit when using my digital multimeter, but my 5w bulb won't light up when the alligator leads are clipped to the hot and neutral, I know I have a ghost voltage scenario if all the rest of the circuit components have already been proven functional. Make sure you know your whole circuit before you start testing for ghost voltages. LoZ testing (even with a multimeter in LoZ mode) can damage a circuit not designed to handle the small current flow you will be allowing for the testing. Usually not an issue with home wiring, but I thought I would mention it for anyone else that might be reading this.

Good luck.
 
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nbpt100

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It has been a month and I just wanted to follow up. I did intstall a cheaper motion sensor that was available at one of the Box stores. It worked good but it twice tripped the breaker in the breaker box. I am not sure what could be wrong. It is a 15 amp breaker and the one light is only 75 watts. I inspected the box and the inside is dry. No water is getting in. I was skeptical as we have had a ton of rain in the past month. One note is that the breaker lever is not moving to the center when it tripps. It stays in the on postion. I am not sure if that is normal. All breakers I am familar with will move the lever to the center when it trips. You can visually see it has tripped. Wondering if that is an indication the breaker is not working correctly and it may be the problem.??? Thoughts?
 

Mr_fixit

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Motion lights are a *************, relatively speaking. If one lasts one to three years , consider yourself lucky. they're loaded with electronics, and many things go wrong, which always makes them fail. Expect that from every motion light, and you won't be disappointed.
 

swgray

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Motion lights are a *************, relatively speaking. If one lasts one to three years , consider yourself lucky. they're loaded with electronics, and many things go wrong, which always makes them fail. Expect that from every motion light, and you won't be disappointed.
I agree, but not for the same reason. I have my outdoor lights on all the time with a dusk to dawn switch. Same switch for 34 years also.

People sneak around in dark areas and stay away from well light ones. I used to have two 500watt halogen fixtures, now I have two 30watt LEDs doing the same work. Not quite as bright but doing the job none the less. The electric bill doesn't take that much of a hit from them being on all night.
 
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nbpt100

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Motion lights are a *************, relatively speaking. If one lasts one to three years , consider yourself lucky. they're loaded with electronics, and many things go wrong, which always makes them fail. Expect that from every motion light, and you won't be disappointed.
1 to 3 years? I am on 4 weeks. I'm Just trying to figure if it may be something else other than the motion sensor.
 

FredWanaker

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I have a different unit but it has a light sensor on it too and if there is too much light on it, it won't come on or stay on in test.
 
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nbpt100

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I have a different unit but it has a light sensor on it too and if there is too much light on it, it won't come on or stay on in test.
The Defiant Unit I have from the Orange Box store will stay in test mode for 10 minutes or as long as it senses activity. The bright light is tricking it to think it is day light. You need to reposition the light that is causing this or make a mask for the light sensor.

I just returned the one I have for another hoping it was a defective unit that was tripping the breaker. I will find out in a few days.
 
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