Mounting a engine hoist in ceiling ?

[427HISS]

Hey guys, since I have the MaxJax lift ready to use in my single stall garage, I'm wanting to remove and install a new Ford 427 side oiler in my 427 Cobra.
(Punched out to 482 cu. with apx. 625-650 HP/TQ) oh ya ! lol

Rather than doing the usual big repair at my buddies automotive repair shop with limited time because he's so busy, I want to do it here at home and not be rushed. The nose on the Cobras are too long to use a cherry picker from the front, it has to be from the side of the car. And being only a single wide driveway, I have nothing solid for the lift to sit on.

So, I've decided to buy a chain hoist. The old iron engine weighs apx. 650 lbs.
The new all aluminum side oiler weighs apx. 500 lbs.

Harbor Freight has this electric hoist on sale for $100.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44006

And on that page in the upper right side, they have a "support arm for electric hoist", that I've never seen before. Is it a pole you mount to the floor and to the ceiling ?

Here is also a manual chain hoist for $50 (not as cool) lol

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=996

Here's some questions-

Is this a good quality safe hoist ?

Is the "support arm" needed ?

What does this mean,....."Single/double line capacity: 440 lbs./880 lbs."

How do you mount this unit to the ceiling and what wood/hardware is needed ?

I assume my joists are 2x8 or 2x10's.

In the photo, what's on top of the red housing ?

With a simple chain hoist, I can see bolting down a couple of sandwiched 2x8's, on top of my ceiling joists, drill a hole through the middle and bolting a large eye hook through them, but for this type I'm confused ?

I don't trust screwing a couple of sandwiched 2x8's, in between the joists, for this much weight. I would be relying on the strength of the screws or even lag bolts. Don't sound good to me !

Since I'm finishing the drywall, nice paint, cabinets and tile flooring, I want this to look nice. I think this hoist will look fine.

I'm ready for opinions and advise.

 

[rsanter]

I recomend that you get a piece of 'I' beam that will span the garage width (or lenth) and suspend the chain hoist on a trolly that rides on the I beam.
to suport this you can run round pipe or square tube up the 2 walls and sit the I beam on top of them (so you do not stress your roof structure). attack the uprights and beam to the walls and the ceiling so that they do not move side to side.
that would be a great addition to a garage

bob

 

[427HISS]

So, use the simple manual chain hoist ?

What kind of trolley would fit the I-beam and where can I buy one ?
Don't suppose you have a photo of one ?

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[garfunkle24]

Take a look at this site: http://ottosystems.thomasnet.com/viewitems/hand-chain-hoists/cyclone-army-type-trolley-hoist?&forward=1

This stuff is fairly high-end but should give you some ideas.

Something like this should work for your needs: http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Hoisting/Trolleys/175-3302.htm

Edit: HF has this one:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91492

 

[427HISS]

Now that would handle my motor. (not the $1,200 one) lol
Having a I-beam would be an eye sore though.

But, I'm not going for garage of the year either.

 

[35mastr]

Now that would handle my motor. (not the $1,200 one) lol
Having a I-beam would be an eye sore though.

But, I'm not going for garage of the year either.

If the I beam is nicely painted and maybe striped. It would be ok.I would rather have that then the wood for actual structure and safety.

 

[427HISS]

Ya, especially MENARDS,....lumber.

 

[rodm1]

If you have a low sealing 8ft or under you will have problems with lift high! If any part of the hoist hangs below sealing it will become a big problem. I always run out of lifting height especially lifting something out of a pickup truck bed.

 

[Chris Adams]

I have one of those in my garage, use it for things like lifting compressors out of truck beds by myself.

The 440-880 thing is with and without pulley in the system.
When you use a second point, usually a pulley it gears the system down by two.
Simply put, straight from the hoist it is rated to pull 440 lbs. If you run the second pulley, slowing it down and giving you more leverage, it will pull 880.

It is not powerful enough for a 427 on a straight pull.
You won't like trying to pull an engine with it with the second pulley.

You may want to upgrade to the next model.
Electric winches, especially the lower end ones, start with a jump and it is super easy to get out of control with one. Super easy.


You will be amazed at how easy it is to break the 2x4's in your garage ceiling.
You will be amazed at how quickly you run out of room when that engine is on the hoist.
You will not enjoy the cracking sound when your engine swings a little during the pull and puts 800-1200 lbs of force on that cross support.


If you can't use a long beam cherry picker you may want to invest in a simple pole frame. Not cheap, but not killer expensive.
We used to use one made from 2 inch heavy galvanized pipe, real simple to build, to pull Rat's with scattersheild and ****** (usually rock crushers or super T-tens)
We used the non-**** 1.5 ton manual chain hoist.
Since we used simple two T’s and a big U design we could use it even with low rafters, and could take it down and store it.

Remember, a hoist has to pull the engine plus whatever you forgot to disconnect, say the front of the car when it's an engine mount bolt.

With a cherry picker it bogs down, with a heavy chain hoist on a steel frame, the car lifts up.
With an electric it smokes.
With a 2x4 mounted electric it cracks.

 

[Ray-CA]

"The nose on the Cobras are too long to use a cherry picker from the front, it has to be from the side of the car."

Take a look at this old photo from the Factory. This is how they did it in the "olden days."

Ray

 

[427HISS]

You brought up some very good points.

My 427 Cobra is very short in height and my ceiling is 9' so, I may be ok.
If not, I can let the air out of the tires. lol

I and the mechanism have to be very safe and confident, I can't imagine the hoist, chain, wood ect.... breaking and crashing down on the car.

As you can see, the car is short in height.

The photo with the first engine was shot at our sprint car shop back in 2004. It's on gravel and I will not drive on it. (wonder why) lol
I emptied the sprint trailer, drove it home, loaded the cobra, back to the shop and when I was done, had to do it all over again. What a pain !

Plus, that was in late fall when racing was over and were racing now. It will just be better, faster and easier here at home.

Maybe I should make what you did or weld up a triangle frame and cut it down when the motor's back in.

 

[427HISS]

Ray, like I stated before, the nose is too long. That's a great photo, I wonder why it's up on the ramp ?

Maybe I should just add another 6' to my cherry picker, make it like 12' long. lol

 

[Packard V8]

FWIW, I would bet serious money you could put the ***-end up on ramps the way the photo shows and pull the engine with a standard cherry picker and an adjustable engine cradle. The adjustable cradle enables taking the weight of the engine at the front, bringing it up while a floor jack supports the ******. When the ****** tailshaft is clear of the crossmember, then the adjustable cradle is cranked back toward the center of gravity to balance the engine and it is jacked on up and wheeled out.

If yours is a kit car, I have no knowledge of the frame design, but I've helped pull engines out of real-deal Cobras using just this technique.

thnx, jack vines

thnx, jack vines

 

[krooser]

You're going to lift a $30,000 engine out of a $75,000.00 car with a $100.00 hoist? I'm sorry but one slip and that $100.00 lift cost you thousands of dollars...

 

[J.A.F.E.]

A gantry crane would be safer than attaching to your ceiling and could be stowed away when not in use.

Harbor freight has three different models but online they're more expensive than in the stores.


http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=gantry&Submit=Go

 

[sberry]

Beef up the joists would be the easiest probably. Fix up a couple of them and throw a 4x4 across them..

 

[Jim Stabe]

I picked up my 1,800 lb lathe and set it on levelers using a 3,000 lb HF come along hung from a 4 x 6 spanning 2 x 8 joists in the mezanine above. I would not recommend using an electric hoist to pull the engine out of that car (too nice) because of jerky on and off motions you get.

Jim

 

[Ray-CA]

Ray, like I stated before, the nose is too long. That's a great photo, I wonder why it's up on the ramp ?

Maybe I should just add another 6' to my cherry picker, make it like 12' long. lol

That is how they did it at the factory in the '60's. It allowed them to slide the engine/transmission in as one unit. They apparently didn't have the engine tipping attachment for the hoist like we do now.

Ray

 

[427HISS]

Jack- Did you ever see the way the cobras were lifted in the pits for a tire change ? "Bumper jacks". If you look close you can see them. Just a hook shape to match the horizontal bar attached to a frame with wheels. Push down and the car lifts up. No high tech at all. I'll see if I can find a pic in my files.

Mines a 2x4 box, very heavy duty. The originals were less in strength using round tubing.

Being able to do all the build myself but the engine machining, I have about 12k in the motor. I assumed these electric hoist were built with quality but, I guess not. That's why research,......everything before buying. The crane is a good idea wither I make one or buy.

I tend to agree with supporting the ceiling joists using a couple of 2x10's or 4x4's matted together and laying across the them, being only 650 lbs. Don't you think this method and strength would be fine ? hum,....

 

[A_Pmech]

You have $12,000 in that engine and you want to hang it from the ceiling???

Did I get that right?

 

[427HISS]

Well yes, what's different with any racing team engine hanging inside a trailer when changing when changing them out, like the World of Outlaws, and they have 40-50k motors ? All they have is aluminum tracks with a small hoist.

Also, what's different from hanging a engine from a cherry picker with only a chain mounted to a aluminum intake manifold, with two bolts, and your moving and swinging it around, being careful of course.

 

[A_Pmech]

The difference is that your ceiling was never designed to carry a point load of any type. So, if the ceiling fails, you're out an engine, a car, and a garage and maybe some medical bills when you crawl out of the wreckage.

Never heard of "The World of Outlaws" or had a look at their trailer engine changing equipment, but I would suspect with $50,000 on the hook they would spend a little time engineering something suitable for the job.

If that's the factory rig point for the engine, it was designed to accept the loading placed on it by the engine crane. The engine crane is specifically designed for the load of the engine, including the swinging moments. Your ceiling was, at most, designed to hold a 60lb sheet of drywall.

Realize, in overhead lifting, every part of the equipment must be designed to support a multiple of the maximum rated capacity. The multiple is known as the "safety factor". Most overhead cranes have safety factors starting at 5, as a bare minimum. That means the crane beams will yield at 5 times rated capacity.

The safety factor takes into account things like:

Wear
Improper use
Dynamic loading
Minor design and fabrication errors
Erection errors
Poor maintenence

Is your ceiling up to holding 5x650 lbs?

Don't take chances with your engine, your car, your garage, and your life. Buy or rent the appropriate equipment. The work should be enjoyable, not a life-and-death experience.

 

[Chris Adams]

On making your own hoist as I posted, you can do it with 2 inch HEAVY pipe, not the 2 inch light stuff. Or use 3 inch, medium heavy.
This is the 'build it in an hour' method. Locate three ten foot straights threaded, Two t fittings, two elbows. Four short, four foot or whatever long pieces. Bolt together to form U with two T legs. You can put it together with the pipes sticking through your rafters. Cinch it down tight so it won't unscrew or swivel.

Two guys can put it together in about ten minutes, or take it down. Sounds flimsy but we have pulled over a thousand pounds with that configuration. We originally secured it with chain to the rafters on each end, but after the tenth or twentieth pull we just got out of the habit.
We were using VERY GOOD pipe. I saw lots of light weight stuff, like you get at HD, that I wouldn't use to pull a 4 cylinder. We got this pipe at a pipe supply house, cheaper and much, much sturdier. Thick wall.
We also used ten foot one inch pipes shoved through the ‘T’ at the bottom, to give it more stability when we weren’t chained to rafters.

I lent it to a buddy who did manage to bend it. He had a 66 GTO with a big block and bent it. Because he forgot one motor mount bolt. He had the front of the car in the air and it bent the center pipe. They are able to take about 900 lbs slow pull but 1800 or so was too much. Idiot kept pulling on the chain hoist as the pipe got lower but the engine didn't lift....

A manual chain hoist is MUCH safer no matter what you anchor it on.
The manual chain hoist gives you tactile sensation, by that I mean, you can FEEL it get harder, feel it jiggle.
An electric just yanks, and I do mean yanks.
There is no feel at all. You are depended on being super quick, super observant to any problems.
And as electric motors start at full speed, there is no way to slow the pull to ease it while you adjust it.
It's either full on, or nothing.

If you have ever towed a car with a chain you know how much jump or jerk there is as it takes up. Compare it to towing with a strap where the strap soaks up most the velocity change.
The electric is like using a chain, bang, it's moving, bang it stops.

 

[427HISS]

I don't suppose you have any pics ?
I can't quite see it in my pea sized brain. Learn me.

 

[Chris Adams]

Sorry, no pics and after I got the cherry picker I never put it back together, since then we salvaged some of the pipe for things like uplink sat dish poles.

Really very, very simple. Start with a ten foot run of pipe, threaded, or they will thread it at most places, then screw it into the center of a T fitting. That’s the one with three holes. Screw two shorter pipes into the ends of the t. Now you have a ten foot tall, eight, maybe, foot wide T. Think upside down telephone pole or clothesline. Now do another, two clothesline ends. Put a 90degree elbow on the other end of the ten foot length. Now screw a ten foot between the two upside down clothesline poles. Push it up in the air. Push longer thin pipes through the bottom feet.

Of course if you are doing this in a garage you have the ten foot cross piece in the rafters, you put each end upright and screw them in, in place. Need a ladder for that point.
So you end up with a pipe between two vertical pipes. Does not look strong, but is. Try it out before risking your car on it.
I’m not responsible for misunderstandings, or getting the wrong pipe. I have seen pipe that wouldn’t hold 100 pounds sideways.

We always intended to put cross struts on it, but never did. Probably could have held up the Pontiac if we had, but who needs it.
You can build a four legged version of this rather cheaply also.

 

[rsanter]

That is how they did it at the factory in the '60's. It allowed them to slide the engine/transmission in as one unit. They apparently didn't have the engine tipping attachment for the hoist like we do now.

Ray

I have used a similar method on vintage mustangs, vettes and some others by putting the back axle on jackstands.
depending on the car you might not be able to get the cherry picker high enough and even with a engine leveling attachment you may not be able to get the angle you want because the attachemnt will start to intefere with the arm of the cherry picker.
you would be amazed how much a difference lifting the back of the car by 12" will make.
you get the tail of the trans into the tunnel and then as you start to lower the engine and level it back. someone slides under the car and puts the trans mount in place and you set the engine on the mounts.
trust me, it makes it much easier

bob

 

[mtbdudex]

Hey guys, my 1st post, great forum here.

I've got engine work to due on my 1996 Four Winns 170 Horizon boat and this thread was very valuable to me, found via Google search.


fwiw, I'm an old Ford guy, caught the "Ford bug" via my 1969 Ford Torino GT 390 FE show here in 1977 during a high school era engine rebuilding/install weekend.

That car is long gone, but memories near/dear.
Now that I have 3 kids, in near future I'll be doing some car projects with them as well.

Too bad I sold this 2 x 4 Ford OE 427 manifold in 2001, oh well.

 

[427HISS]

Welcome to the forum Mike. Yep, wish you didn't sell that intake !

I called two engineers and both said 2-2x10's will work fine but also said jumping up to the 12's would be even better for a small increase in price.

I may go with the pipes though as a friend has all kinds of sizes.

 

[07SGT5687]

I too have been following this post as I've had an idea for a while now that I'd love to incorporate in a garage we'll be starting to build this fall. I'd like to be able to hoist engines and other heavy materials from a ground floor area and then roll them along a beam and drop them in an overhead storage area. Please see the attached pic and let me know if does/doesn't make any sense. The big thing is, I don't know what is feasible or necessary to mount/position this hoist. Nor do I know what kind of hoisting mechanism would be best.

Thoughts?

 

[427HISS]

The solid pipe I laid over my 2x10's then anchored them, worked out perfect, with no deflection. Very happy.

Wow, the garage and service area you have planned is fantastic.
You may want to call and see what your local building code's are. I'm sure they'll have the information for you. After all, a lot of company's like engine builders use beams & trolley's. You can buy a kit which consists of the I-beam and trolley, you'll just need to measure the length you want.

 

[creativecars]

There seems to be much discussion about getting the rear end in the air just to put the motor and trans in at the same time??? It is not much more difficult to do them separate. Easier to manage, less weight etc... Done it many times. The op said the front sat too low for a cherry picker. This is common with many vehicles, so stack some 2x10 into ramps. You could pull a complete 460 (minus carb.) out of an older Ford van if you put the front end on stands so you could raise the motor without hitting the firewall, otherwise you would have to disassemble half the motor. It just depends on what skills and equipment you have.

 

[427HISS]

Having a hoist in the ceiling is so,....much easier than using a cherry picker, plus you don't have to store one. In small garage space is everything. Rolling a car a bit to position it where you need it is also easier than moving a loaded cherry picker.

 

[03protege]

Ray, like I stated before, the nose is too long. That's a great photo, I wonder why it's up on the ramp ?

Maybe I should just add another 6' to my cherry picker, make it like 12' long. lol

They have to get the transmission under the firewall, by raising the rear they don't have to tilt the engine to near vertical elevation to get it in.


I've seen many engine cranes built out of wood. Just two vertical beams with a horizontal across the top and 45's in the corners. Then 4 45's touching the ground to stabilize. Some people even put it on giant casters.


When my uncle was a teen he swapped a Dodge v8 into his Plymouth Valiant by connecting a pulley to the exposed beams in the garage and supported the beam on either side of the car with a 4x4. I don't recommend that method though lol.

 

[03protege]

Having a hoist in the ceiling is so,....much easier than using a cherry picker, plus you don't have to store one. In small garage space is everything. Rolling a car a bit to position it where you need it is also easier than moving a loaded cherry picker.

What is really cool are the track systems that the hoist can slide on so you can pull the engine and then guide it all the way over to the work bench.

Basically what we are talking about with the I-beam but it runs with the car instead of across it.

 

[creativecars]

Having a hoist in the ceiling is so,....much easier than using a cherry picker, plus you don't have to store one. In small garage space is everything. Rolling a car a bit to position it where you need it is also easier than moving a loaded cherry picker.

Not so much, different yes, easier no. Have you hit your head on the hoist? Of course you have. Do the chains get wrapped around things you don’t want them to? How easy is it to get the car out of the way after you pulled the motor???
I grew up using chain falls hanging from the rafters and pulled everything from lawn tractor motors to 460's. I can at least move the 460 on the cherry picker to the back of a truck to take to the machine shop, with the hoist I have to move the vehicle without a motor to load the motor.
Just sayin'
time

 

[427HISS]

Actually no, I haven't hit my head on it, as I take the hoist off the cable. I'm trying to downsize a photo I have of mine.

Moving the car is no issue as it's lighter without the motor. If I need to take the motor to the machine shop, just drive the truck under motor & lower it into the bed wherever you want. Very,....easy.

 

[427HISS]

What is really cool are the track systems that the hoist can slide on so you can pull the engine and then guide it all the way over to the work bench.

Basically what we are talking about with the I-beam but it runs with the car instead of across it.

How do you have the beam mounted, sitting on top of the house headers ?

 

[03protege]

How do you have the beam mounted, sitting on top of the house headers ?

That isn't mine

I believe he used supports going across the headers perpendicular to the I beam

 

[Packard V8]

There seems to be much discussion about getting the rear end in the air just to put the motor and trans in at the same time??? It is not much more difficult to do them separate Easier to manage, less weight etc... Done it many times. QUOTE]

Not so fast, there, creative cars! Guarantee there are several on which you've never done it many times, especially older sports cars, where transmission cannot be removed/installed with the engine in place. They have to go in and come out as a unit. BTDT many times.

jack vines

 

[427HISS]

I agree, there's a lot of cars and some trucks, where transmission cannot be removed/installed with the engine in place. How and where the transmission tunnel and fire wall is, in correlation is a major factor if both units can be adjoined as a unit into the engine bay. With my 427 Shelby Cobra, you can lift the rear of the car up high and keep the front end down.

That's the way the Shelby Racing Team took the engine in/out.