Mounting bases for cable ties?

[MatBirch]

I know there are lots of options and brands, so I’m not so much looking for a style. I’m hoping to lean on personal experience here.
We have a need to use a cable tie mounting bases at times in our shop when we can’t penetrate a surface. Maybe it’s only one layer thick and can’t have a fastener protruding the other side, or maybe it’s just a very thick material that doesn’t lend itself to getting the job done effiently. Conditions vary.
Anyway, we’ve used the lilltle plastic 2-way square stick on bases and constantly struggle with them releasing. We’ve tried Ideal brand and Panduit brand through Fastenal. They all fail to stay stuck. We clean, de-ox the aluminum surfaces, use heat, no heat, scuff, don’t scuff, painted, unpainted... doesn’t seem to matter. Come back a day later, and it’s hanging there. Even using a very high quality 3m VHB tape stuck to their tape doesn’t work. Believe it or not, the two tapes delaminates from each other.

What are your experiences? Successes and failures? Brands to try, or avoid? I’m nearly to the point of having a pile of them laser cut from light gauge SS, and adding our own VHB tape. We have excellent results with the tape on many other applications.

Thanks!

 

[cvairwerks]

Epoxy adhesive mount metal pads. Here are two options:

http://www.newark.com/thomas-betts/tc-105/cable-tie-mtg-base-aluminum-25/dp/12C2341

https://www.electricalhub.com/click...MI2vjKs5zM2wIVgrjACh3DggG0EAYYAiABEgKkTfD_BwE

The ClickBond ones can be had for less money with a little searching. Certain epoxies can be had that will develop enough strength within an hour or so.

Adhering to aluminum requires diligent cleaning and degreasing of both of the bonding surfaces. Scrub with ScotchBrite, wipe with either 90% alcohol or acetone on a clean rag and wipe dry with a second clean rag. Water break test for a clean surface. If it's not clean, then repeat until it's clean. Bond the pad down after 15 minutes or so of air drying the pad and structure and let the adhesive cure. TyRap after that.

It's the same process we use for bonding mounting studs in the airplane on all surfaces, though we have some additional processes for titanium and composite.

 

[travisn1]

I've had great success putting painters tape down first then the zip tie block on top of that. Granted it wasn't for a deliverable product but worth a shot.

 

[kd3pc]

I am with cvairwerks...use air or marine epoxy pads and never look back...just be sure you don't want to move or remove them, once set - they are pretty permanent.

bests

 

[Marctrees]

Thomas and Betts Ty Raps, accessories, and tools may be historically THE best.

Marc

 

[mcbane]

If screw holes are an option, this is my go to cable tie anchor: https://www.waytekwire.com/item/21251/Cable-Tie-Mounting-Base/

 

[nadogail]

T&B or Panduit have, in my opinion been the "go to" brands.
I personally have never encountered the situation you describe; I would ask either or both manufacturers for guidance.

 

[flat tire]

I been using walmart brand for years with no problem

 

[Fierljeppen]

An inexpensive, yet effective solution for me was to add a few dabs of clear RTV to the base before installing. It works even better if you can remove the existing tape first. It's also a great way to re-attach any bases you come across.

Most of my applications have been in an injection molding environment, where the air eventually contaminates the inside of control cabinets.

 

[Stuart in MN]

When using the stick on mounting pads you need to make sure there's little or no tension in the wires that's pulling up on them.

 

[gahrajmahal]

My guys used to peel off the tape, clean off the adhesive with solvent then use two part epoxy to hold them on. Didn't know about epoxy versions. Would have saved some steps.

 

[ScottsGT]

I use a drop of CA in the center of the pad. But the trick is to give the pad 24 hours to sit before putting the stress of the cables on it. Let the adhesive pad do it's thing first.

 

[Albiemanmike]

Strange I use them on my boat which sees constant salt water spray on the transom to hold the wires down coming from the transducers and they have held fast for a very long time now. I think I used the Panduit ones from West Marine and Home Depot/Lowes. This was on fiberglass though. A little acetone prior to application and boom stuck for good. I would think that the issue you are seeing is not getting the surface surgically clean before application as well as making sure these aren't used in a load bearing capacity.

 

[Albiemanmike]

Epoxy adhesive mount metal pads. Here are two options:

http://www.newark.com/thomas-betts/tc-105/cable-tie-mtg-base-aluminum-25/dp/12C2341

https://www.electricalhub.com/click...MI2vjKs5zM2wIVgrjACh3DggG0EAYYAiABEgKkTfD_BwE

The ClickBond ones can be had for less money with a little searching. Certain epoxies can be had that will develop enough strength within an hour or so.

Adhering to aluminum requires diligent cleaning and degreasing of both of the bonding surfaces. Scrub with ScotchBrite, wipe with either 90% alcohol or acetone on a clean rag and wipe dry with a second clean rag. Water break test for a clean surface. If it's not clean, then repeat until it's clean. Bond the pad down after 15 minutes or so of air drying the pad and structure and let the adhesive cure. TyRap after that.

It's the same process we use for bonding mounting studs in the airplane on all surfaces, though we have some additional processes for titanium and composite.

Using those would certain work but you are adding an additional step in the manufacturing process by having to also mix up and apply epoxy to each and every little cable tiedown unless I am missing something?

 

[ishiboo]

Using those would certain work but you are adding an additional step in the manufacturing process by having to also mix up and apply epoxy to each and every little cable tiedown unless I am missing something?

The applicator guns have nozzles that mix the epoxy as you use them. The Weld Mount gun at least is very good about actually correctly mixing it, unlike some of the disposable epoxies you find at the hardware store where it's hard to get equal amounts if you only need a small amount.

 

[ishiboo]

Another option might be wire ties with VHB tape:

https://www.ebay.com/p/15pcs-24mm-C...-With-3M-VHB-Red-Self-Adhesive-Tape/914682615

I googled to see if they existed and somehow 3M doesn't make them, but it looks like someone or a company are DIYing them.

 

[cvairwerks]

Using those would certain work but you are adding an additional step in the manufacturing process by having to also mix up and apply epoxy to each and every little cable tiedown unless I am missing something?

We do it tens of thousands of times a week on our airplanes.....There are more than a thousand nutplates and hundreds of studs for cable clamps on every a/c. Each location has to be cleaned and prepped prior to gluing the nutplate or stud on. Been a part of the manufacturing process since 1973 for our facility.

 

[FigureItOut]

I'm sure you're aware of this, but the adhesives on those are pressure sensitive. You didn't mention applying pressure when you described the details of the procedure that's not working for you, so I figured I'd mention it. When I use them, I push down evenly, applying as much pressure as I can comfortably sustain while counting to 30. Along with a good cleaning, this gives me good results.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930AZ using Tapatalk

 

[LS1-IROC]

This is what we use now. Used to do the PSA stuff and also drill and tap them. Now we use the grip nail system it's sooooo much faster and is permanent.

https://www.gripnail.com/

https://www.gripnail.com/products/fasteners/wire-management-fasteners/tackmounts

 

[MatBirch]

Thanks for the input guys! I’ve also had some personally in the past that worked fine, but as a general rule, our failure rate at the shop is probably 80% or worse. We do clean religiously, tried scotch brite, different cleaners, tried leaving the bases overnight (schedule doesn’t always allow). Most often we are attaching to 6061-T6 plate, but I like to use them in panels also, most often Hoffman, Eaton, and Square D. Just doesn’t seem to matter what we try. If they’re still stuck when the unit leaves, I’m always surprised. Sometimes we just have no choice but to use them. If I can put a screw in, I just use a P clip...
I like the idea of the epoxy and aluminum TB clips. If you can trust it the aircraft industry, I guess it’ll work for a SWAT van

 

[Jlarson]

I use a lot of them in our panel shop and in field control cabinets. We put a few dots of super glue on them. For larger bundles we order them without the adhesive and use vhb or epoxy.