Moving ceiling outlet

[rockford33]

Just curious if anyone knows an easy way to do this:

I have an outlet in the ceiling of my townhouse garage and one outlet on the endwall. The outlet on the ceiling only has the garage door opener plugged into it. It would be nice to have more outlets on walls. I'd like to extend power from the outlet in the ceiling over to the wall (without destroying a whole lot of drywall). The ceiling outlet is kind of useless since it is unreachable and only has one thing plugged into it. Another outlet on the wall would be more useful since I only have one outlet in the entire garage!! Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!

As an aside, if I have a 200 amp main breaker, but the individual breakers only add up to 180 amps, could I safely upgrade an individual breaker (say a 10 amp to a 20 amp) without harm, as long as I stay below the 200 amp limit? This is a theoretical question since I haven't looked at my circuit panel in great detail, but would like to make sure if I can add more power to my garage.

 

[Wile1Coyote]

Can you get to that attic space above your Garage ceiling? If not forget about it as it is more hassle than it wil be worth. If you can it is only as hard as getting a wire up to that location and to wherever you want to add the new outlet in the wall. Chasing wires inside walls is not always fun particularly in a wall that is insulated. Can usually be done though with some ingenuity and a good fish tape. GL

 

[rockford33]

Can you get to that attic space above your Garage ceiling? If not forget about it as it is more hassle than it wil be worth. If you can it is only as hard as getting a wire up to that location and to wherever you want to add the new outlet in the wall. Chasing wires inside walls is not always fun particularly in a wall that is insulated. Can usually be done though with some ingenuity and a good fish tape. GL

Unfortunately, it's a townhouse, so I have a living room up above the garage. I might just have to run an extension cord across the ceiling and down the wall so I use that second outlet. It'll look tacky, but I'll only be here another 3 or 4 years anyway. Thanks.

 

[rjspitz]

I had the same issue in my townhouse. So I bought a retractable extension cord and hung it next to the outlet. Then whenever I need it, just pull.

 

[Wile1Coyote]

Yeah that Retractable cord idea is a good one, Usually the door opener hanger is a good place to hang the reel as well. $40 at any Sears.

 

[TOO Z MAXX]

If you do not want to cut up sheetrock, the only other way to add outlets is use metal conduit on the walls and pull wire throught them. You would need an extension box mounted where the outlet on the ceiling is at, then start running conduit from there.

 

[TOO Z MAXX]

On the question of upsizing a breaker in a panel. Never do that unless you can upsize all of the wire on that circuit, which in most cases is not practical. Big breaker and small wire is a potential fire and can be very dangerous.

 

[rockford33]

On the question of upsizing a breaker in a panel. Never do that unless you can upsize all of the wire on that circuit, which in most cases is not practical. Big breaker and small wire is a potential fire and can be very dangerous.

What kind of load (amperage) do you think standard household wiring would be able to handle? I would think (I'm not an electrician though) that they would use the same gauge wire throughout the house (except to the dryer outlet) because it would be more economical than using different wire sizes all over the place. I haven't looked yet to see what the amperage ratng for the garage breaker is, it may be adequate for my needs (at least in this townhouse, no table saw for me ). Just throwing the question out there.

I might just do the cord reel from the ceiling outlet. Since I am only here for another 3 years or so, it might not be worth the hassle to do it and do it right. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[TOO Z MAXX]

#14 wire is 15 amps
#12 wire is 20 amps
#10 wire is 30 amps (dryer)
# 8 wire is 50 amps (hot tub, AC)

 

[sjsfire]

TOO Z MAXX has the plan. I'd go with adding the extension box to the ceiling outlet , run it accross the ceiling then down the wall to a suface mount box all inclosed in conduit. You could then branch out from from the wall box both ways and add a few more outlets. Just be sure to use the proper size wire. It will give you a cleaner look. GOOD LUCK!!

 

[rockford33]

I think what I am going to do when it warms up is:

1. Leave the GDO outlet alone.
2. Change the existing 60-watt bulb fixture to a junction box. From there, go out to either side and to the front of the garage. One duplex outlet at the front of the garage for a plug-in fluorescent ceiling light. At either side of the garage, another duplex outlet for plug-in fluorescent lights. That should give me good lighting (5 twin tube lights) that turn on with the origonal switch. Plus, I can unplug them and take them with me when I move, only leaving the outlets on the ceiling behind.
3. Come out of my breaker panel (in left front wall of garage, next to garage door), and come down the left wall with new surface mount wiring (armored cable, supported every 3 feet and within 1 foot of an outlet), and add two outlets along the left wall.

What do you guys think of that plan? I figure I can buy a big roll of 12-2 armored cable and use that for all of the ceiling and wall outlets. I'll get better lighting (5 twin tube instead of one), and outlets along the left wall (only existing wall outlet is on wall opposite the garage door), most likely on just a 15 amp circuit since I only use a bench grinder, circ. saw, etc.. Shouldn't be too expensive, and I can take some of it with me when I move in 3-4 years.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Neil

 

[6t7gto]

Neil.
IMO, that will not look professional at all.
use conduit.

david

 

[rockford33]

Neil.
IMO, that will not look professional at all.
use conduit.

david

David,
Thanks for the input. I thought it might look professional, depending on how easy it is to work with the armored cable (i.e. nice and straight). I thought about metallic conduit, but don't I have to ground it somehow per code? We have an older copy of the NEC Code Book here in my office, I'll have to look at it to make sure I am code compliant. For some reason, I thought I read somewhere that I couldn't use exposed PVC for conduit. If I can do PVC, I am not sure if that would look good either. Anyone have some shots of how they installed surface wiring to new outlets and/or switches?

Thanks,
Neil

 

[Stuart in MN]

I suggest using Wiremold. It's a system that uses a rectangular channel that is surface mounted for routing the wires from one receptacle to the next. It's pretty unobtrusive and can be painted if desired. I believe you can buy it at Home Depot or the other big box stores. Here's a link to the Wiremold website that shows how it works.

http://www.wiremold.com/www/consumer/products/metal_raceway/index.asp

 

[6t7gto]

Neil.
i never mentioned PVC.
i was referring to metal conduit and/or thinwall.
some people call it by different names.
as far as grounding the metallic conduit, the ground is continued on from the existing metal workbox. unless it is a plastic box, then you would have to ground it.
the Wiremold, Stuart mentions, is quite pricey. but will look good.

david

 

[sberry]

I agree that running a surface conduit would be the thing to do, you can get decorative surface raceway at the home stores, it is used extensively in renovation to old buildings. As for the panel, no changing breakers for the most part, at least not without some qualified council but unless your panel is smokin hot, you are on all electric everything going full blast adding some simple circuits for utility loads would not be a factor. I have a 200 with 5 or 600 A of breakers installed. On new services, or new style services, not old 60A fuses, but 200's I am sure others have but I cant recall running across a 200 that was overloaded except for a couple small resturants on fish fry nite in July where cooking and cooling were running at peak.

 

[sberry]

Something else to consider is to ignore the circuit that is there now, its easy to get caught up in that thought, for a garage I would be thinking of getting a new wire back to the panel and not having it hooked to other circuits. You said no table saw stuff but even co0mmon vaccuums are hungry although not constant but I hate to apply any heavy loading to wiring that may be of vintage nature, is it properly grounded thru several junctions, etc. I would pull one new 3 conductor (with ground)wire, you might be able to route a new wire easier than extend the old? Mount a 4 x 4 box and have 2 new uninterupted circuits right from the main, run a couple pcs wire mold around the corner for another outlet and presto, new good safe outlets, a known quanity and quality, you know they are not shared with other rooms, takes any motor loads straight to the panel, done deal.

 

[rockford33]

Stuart,
Does the Wiremold need to be grounded and do you know if it would meet code? Some research I did on the web shows using grounding bushing at the locknut where you connect the conduit into the boxes.

I looked at metallic conduit yesterday in HD. Not real expensive. I think I saw the Wiremold next to it, but didn't check the price. The raceway looks kinda small for pulling cable through though.

6t7GTO/sberry,
This would be a new circuit for the wall outlets, so no existing metal workbox, just a cable coming from the breaker panel, through the wall into a junction box, then conduit to the new outlets. This way I have a brand new, unused circuit for just the garage with 2 GFCI outlets.

The only existing wiring I would be using would be for the ceiling outlets, which would have the fl. lighting plugged in. Basically I would be taking the existing 60 watt bulb and fixture out, and replacing with a junction box and 3 outlets convenient to where I want the lights.

I have several electrical books at home, and the NEC Code here at work (although the NEC Code is not the easiest read, nor does it seem to really explain how to do things, just what and what not to do).

Thanks for all of the help guys. I am anxious to get this started, but the wife needs to make a paycheck first (been living on my pay since last August ), and it needs to get a little warmer (32 degrees and windy today!!).

-Neil

 

[Stuart in MN]

Yes, Wiremold needs to be grounded but it's pretty straightforward. It should be included in the instructions. Also, if you go to this link you'll see a video of step-by-step installation, including the ground wire connection. Wiremold installation video link

Wiremold is generally acceptable in most areas, but you should probably check to make sure there aren't any local restrictions. Also, it's designed for individual wires and not Romex, so there should be plenty of room inside.

 

[Donutboy]

I had a similar situation and needed to plug the garage refrigerator in. There wasn't an outlet where it was located, so I bought the biggest, heaviest extension cord Home Depot carried along with a box of cable clamps. I plugged the extension cord in, and then every foot and a half secured it along the ceiling, top of the wall, and finally down the wall with the cable clamps. And yes, the current draw of the refrigerator was well below what the extn cord can carry. Total cost was probably $25-$30 and I was done in a half hour. Since I never unplug the refrigerator, the solution works pretty well. Some day I'll have additional outlets installed in the garage, but this is working for now.

 

[nudave]

Ugh, extension cords = temporary, meaning a few hours. Major fire hazard there.

I just got done wiring up my basement and garage. It's only a 22x20 garage. I have 4, 4' flourescents and 2 500w halogens. We installed 4 circuits to the current panel (200 amps). There are 2 20amp circuits in the basement for the receptacles, one 20 amp circuit for the garage receptacles (no huge appliances/tools are running out there, so one 20 amp is sufficient.) The last circuit is 15 amps for the garage lighting.

 

[sberry]

I have several electrical books at home, and the NEC Code here at work (although the NEC Code is not the easiest read, nor does it seem to really explain how to do things, just what and what not to do).

The NEC is not a very good "how to" manual, for most people it would be confusing at best. The how to wiring books are way better but most dont go into special circuit requirement designs, yours is basic. One of the things to remember no matter what you are doing is that any metal, boxes, raceway, pipe, fixtures need to be grounded, this means a continious pathway via the ground wire back to the panel. Number 1 thing.