MP&C Shop Projects

[MP&C]

Ed, the lower plate was CRS and the slot was milled on a Bridgeport J head. The punch was made from a piece of round stock, milled to the correct width and touched up with a file. Highly technical stuff here.. No heat treating unless you want to count the welding process.



Claude, I think he's going to work out well. 16 year old son of a guy I went to school with, lives about 2 miles away, so convenient for him. I did let him know he had to keep grades up as I didn't want to catch the wrath from his mother..

 

[MP&C]

Just a test today to see if I could bend up some Jeep Cherokee drip rail to match the small sample I was sent in the mail. This was done with 18ga crs using the bead roller, mag brake, and press brake. The layout details needs just a bit of tweaking, but I think it may just work...

Just as a follow up to this drip rail, the dies I used in the original attempt had about a .07 offset. I didn't want to alter their size as they get used once in a blue moon for sheet metal offset, like I did for the 55 Chevy truck windshield panel.. So I decided to make another set, and based on the dimensional difference between the good sample and the trial piece, it looked like I needed to add about .04 to the offset, or .110 total. So here are the new dies...

I again used the "backstop" die, and had to go back and trim a bit more off the width of the lower die to get the drip rail height correct.

Then the "backstop" die was radiused to use with the skateboard wheel in providing the radius for the front face...

Then a few passes with the tipping die to fold up the front face...

The ends wanted to fold much more than the rest of the trial piece, so rather than continually readjust the tension, I sacrificed the first inch or so and just cut it off in the band saw.


Here is the outer portion formed, the height is about perfect, this is using die width and back stop to regulate dimension...

The offset also turned out much better. The sharp bend on mine wasn't quite as tight together, but we'll see what the Jeep guys say to this version.....

 

[EdT]

Thanks for the info on the punch and die set.
Ed T

 

[mopar4don]

That drip rail fab is REALLY AWSOME!

 

[MP&C]

Thanks, got a couple more tweaks to try and get the profile dialed in, but we're almost there!

 

[mhinch]

Robert,
I'm in the tear down stage of rebuilding my 1983 scrambler. I need to fabricate repair sections for the rear wheel arches. It appears to be a very basic profile. what's not basic about a jeep, right? I've thought about both using a bead roller or making forms and hammer forming the pieces. Below are a few pictures for reference. I've gauged the sheetmetal and it's 18 ga. I do have access to a lathe to turn down some special dies if need be.
Thanks for your reply and all of your help.
First try at tapatalk so I hope it works!

 

[MP&C]

Matt, do you have a picture that shows the "rust" any better? Like a view from farther back to see more of the fender?

Just from the close ups there it appears to be just some surface rust and slight pitting around the mounting holes for the fender flare. If that's the extent of the issue, you may find that media blasting the pits, epoxy primer, and glazing putty will fix what you have. I do notice that you have double wall construction, so the likelihood of some internal rust issues is also a possibility.


If this repair does warrant fabrication, this is something that could be done on a bead roller, and could also be done on a reciprocating machine like my Lennox. The trouble spot here is that any welding done on the outside may affect any finish on the inside panel. Are these two panel able to be separated in any way, ie: is this a bolt together or is everything spot welded?

 

[aggierailroad]

Every time I see all that you can do with a bead roller, I get more and more interested in making some tweaks to mine and getting some new rollers.... Very versatile tool.

 

[mhinch]

My tapatalk isn't showing latest posts so here's a few more pictures

 

[mhinch]

They're here now......on to the pictures Robert.
The passenger side does have some picking but there is no rust through. To your point all that is warranted there is a blasting and epoxy primer then fill and sand.
The pass side

Another pass side

Here's the bad drivers side

It's just a single layer of 18ga, no double wall. I can just grind inside smooth since I plan on re-coating inside of tub with color matched liner.
You're a great help and thanks for taking the time.
Please describe the technique and tools you would use to accomplish this repair

 

[mhinch]

I've removed the liner on the inside and have started on the underside. What a mess. This is true ding a ling work!

Good news is that I took the tub off in about 2 hours!

Engine may come out tonight

Thx for looking

 

[MP&C]

Matt, what I'm going to suggest is to use a hammer form. Start by looking here at this link from post 65 and on, I'm working on a 55 wagon tailgate. Towards the bottom of the page I start using MDF to make a hammer form and show some of the process.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81325&page=4


Now, looking at this picture, cut out a piece of MDF sheet (about 1/2 or 3/4 thick) in the shape shown, but a little wider for more strength (all the room I had on the picture ). Then cut another to match the shape of the wheel opening detail out of 3/8 mdf (given it's thickness), router the edges and screw to the larger sheet. Align/trim edges at the opening as needed. Cut a piece of 19 or 18 ga cold rolled steel in the shape of the 3/8 thick part, allowing about 1" for the flange at the opening, and a good 2" for the top part to transition into the side of the quarter panel. Make another "clamping" piece of MDF out of the thicker and place on top of the sheet. This should be slightly smaller in width to allow plenty of room for hammering/corking around the radius. Clamp using c-clamps, and you can even run some screws through the whole works to help keep things from moving. Will just have to weld them closed later. That's the down and dirty version of making this on the cheap, if you had a Pullmax machine you could make it with that. I'd say the bead roller would be challenged to put that much offset in without notable distortion in the panel. BTW, in order to use the c-clamps at that edge, you'll likely be repositioning many times to keep them at the edge of a table/workbench to give a good stable surface for hammering, unless you want to run screws completely through and into the workbench, then just use the clamps where they will reach.

 

[Skyline]

I know you have some mad skills, but isn't already-formed sheet metal available for that fender lip? It's not exactly a rare vehicle.

Or better yet, some pre-made flares? There are some where you cut the whole lip away to clearance for larger tires. There are some that are flexible plastic, (ie Bushwacker) and others that are more rugged....usually built to combine with armored rear corners.

 

[MP&C]

I'm with you there, heck they even make a complete tub in F/G for no rust issues at all. But I was just going by this.....

Robert,
I need to fabricate repair sections for the rear wheel arches.

Just passing on how I would do it (with minimal tooling)..

 

[MP&C]

The shop's new apprentice started last night, so we did some more metal bumping on the roof repair. We had some high spots to address, so Kyle held the shot bag on the inside while I used the body hammer on the outside.

I used the blunted pick end of this hammer to address the narrow high spots. I've found it helps to more precisely locate your "strike area" by laying a guide finger next to it. Tap down the area, move to the next....

We did have a larger high spot that made use of the hammer face, and on the bottom side Kyle held the donut dolly in place. This made short work of bringing down the high spots..

Note the "graduated" markings on the roof are also on the inside to keep inside guy and outside guy on the same page with hammer and dolly alignment.

 

[YJ4000]

Excellent work and how-to. Glad to see a young one interested and learning from a great teacher.

 

[MP&C]

Thanks!

Today we worked on tying up some loose ends. We had a slight mis-alignment at the front corner of the passenger door..

The lower hinge had already been adjusted as far as the floating nut would let it...

So the door was removed, and since we have no milling machine, we went through about 8 of these 60 grit sanding discs..

For a better comparison, here's the before again...

After

 

[larry4406]

Excellent! And this is what makes you a true craftsman! Keep it up.

 

[8man]

Having just re-hung doors on my project car, great information!

 

[Kevin54]

Robert.....just curious, but is the rocker panel going to be addressed also?

And when you are bending up your drip edges, are you doing that mostly on your new magnetic brake? If you are, can you show us on the other end of the computer lines how you are doing it. I think I've been following everything along in this thread, but maybe I missed it. I'm guessing the brake is working out as expected, or maybe better than expected?

 

[MP&C]

Yes, we were discussing that yesterday while going over the remaining tasks. That's another reproduction part that leaves a lot to be desired. It doesn't have quite enough concave to it's radius. I have a plan for that as well, we'll see if it works.

On the drip rail, both of those last practice pieces were done strictly on the bead roller. I am going to try another version partially using the mag brake in hopes of better consistency.


Thanks for the comments and questions!

 

[MP&C]

Kevin, I did another sample of drip rail to try and tighten up the bottom "vee". I did find that the mag brake will not do as tight a bend as the sharp tipping die. To be fair, I doubt an apron brake would either. It's either the tipping die or attempt some draw forming.


Sample flanged as before...

....and radius added to the front face...

Before I had used the tipping die at the crease adjacent to the radius flange only, and in an attempt to keep the vee tighter, I also flipped the piece over and used the sharp tipping wheel on the back side. Once the flange was tipped, I also used the tipping wheel (with backstop) to mark the other two folds.. Then the obtuse angle was folded using the tipping wheel, the 90 was folded using a gooseneck die in the press brake. The vee is a bit tighter than before, I think I'll see if I can borrow the stainless cover from Jonathan's cut roof section to see how well that part fits...

 

[MP&C]

Robert.....just curious, but is the rocker panel going to be addressed also?

Here you go Kevin!

With the lower corner of the door fitting better, it becomes all the more obvious how poor of a reproduction these outer rocker panels are. The "concave" radius does not match the fender to the front or the quarter to the rear of the rocker. This would have been a good fix using the Wheeling machine with a Go Kart slick, had it been noticed before installation.

Add some body flex to the mix, and trying to fix this with filler would likely be a short lived repair.


Matching the lower anvils of the Wheeling machine to the radius on the quarter, this one fits the best. Also notice how it doesn't fit as well in the rocker panel..

At this point I thought I'd try a "portable" version of the Wheeling machine to add a bit more radius to the rocker panel.

Built in guide......

After some "wheeling", and some bumping of the leading edge with a door skin hammer:

Just to show the comparison, before

After:

 

[csp]

How much time was spent rolling that? Even pressure the whole time or does it vary as you see it begin to take shape?

 

[MP&C]

I started on a creeper and found the casters counter-productive. :tard:

Once I put the piece of diamond plate on the floor I could get a bit more pressure applied. Rolled it back and forth a few times with pressure applied, and even though it has a guide, by adjusting height of handle end, you could move anvil's path up and down on the rocker about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. So worked it front to back and then moved postion slightly and repeat. Pretty much even pressure the whole time... About ten minutes it was done.

 

[PCO6]

Great idea re the portable wheeling machine. I never would have thought of that.

 

[Kevin54]

Well if that just ain't the **** right there. when you said you had an idea, I figured you had a long round piece of tubing or bar that you would lay in there and bump and thump until you got the rocker worked back. That roller is super slick. See, if your helper was on top of things, he could have rolled you back and forth on the creeper.

 

[MP&C]

At that point he was sanding, getting this ready for paint....

 

[PCO6]

... See, if your helper was on top of things, he could have rolled you back and forth on the creeper.

 

[22george]

Great idea re the portable wheeling machine. I never would have thought of that.

ditto
I wouldn't of thought of that also.
Great idea

 

[that-guy]

lovin the English wheel project. will be really eager to see it all painted up and put to use

 

[nonhog]

I started on a creeper and found the casters counter-productive. :tard:

Once I put the piece of diamond plate on the floor I could get a bit more pressure applied. Rolled it back and forth a few times with pressure applied, and even though it has a guide, by adjusting height of handle end, you could move anvil's path up and down on the rocker about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. So worked it front to back and then moved postion slightly and repeat. Pretty much even pressure the whole time... About ten minutes it was done.

WHAT!!!!! ......no video?

 

[Galvonzo]

I started on a creeper and found the casters counter-productive. :tard:

Well, if anyone isn't too sure about that Newton guy and his third law, I'm sure this exercise will change their mind. What's also funny when you think about it, is that MP&C's metal banging is pretty much just Newton's third law put to work.

 

[MP&C]

That Newton fella would have field day over here..



More progress today, working on some metal bumping on the drivers quarter, so a profile template was needed... Took a 1-1/2 x48 piece of 19 ga and used the mag brake to fold it, then the bead roller to flatten.

Then used the kick shrinker to get it to match the contour of the rear of the door, this will give us a close match to the front half of the quarter...

If you shrink too much, no need to change dies, just shrink the rear portion of the template (away from the body)

Ends are radiused...

Then the factory battery tray (firewall mounted) was dissected to use with the "Factory AC car" parts, in order to mount the battery in the passenger front corner behind the core support.

...and all the parts were media blasted. We have some sheet metal plugs to punch out tomorrow for use on a couple of repairs of thin spots, and then the works will get mocked up on the inner fender for placement, weld the parts together, and off for powder coating.

One more tip for those doing mock-up/door fitment without latches, this will hold the door flush with the jamb. (Thanks to Laszlo Nobi for that idea)

 

[E12-535iTurbo]

I'm looking for a bead roller. There is one for sale local to me but the guys is asking 350 euro's including some dies. It's a nice Jörg one. Would it be worth it or is it overpriced?

I just don't have any experience with these. So all advice is gladly taken.

 

[MP&C]

Mine is a Fasti (Fastiwerks, Germany) and I paid $600 on craigslist for the machine, about a dozen or so die sets, a circle attachment, and workpiece support. A Jorg looks to be a very similar machine (I think they are called swaging machines in Europe?) and based on what I have seen with mine, I think the main limitation you will see is it has limited throat depth. For patch panels and formed parts like the drip rails I have been doing, they are fine. If you are doing bead work on full size sheet for floor pans, etc, that one may have limitation.

350 Euro is presently about $450, but I would also check into the new pricing and IMO good used price would be anywhere from 25-40% of new. More than that and I would hope they had plenty of tooling. Gut feel is it sounds like a pretty good deal if it's the machine above and has a good selection of dies. If it's the electric machine for 450 Euros, better get over there yesterday..

 

[MP&C]

Tonight we turned our attention to inner fenders. We've got some items slated for powder coating, and these will get added to the pile.

The front edge that bolts outside the grille is showing remnants of water retention...

Mountain Dew template

Bead details to match the originals.....

Bead roller was set up with a backstop die...

Skateboard wheel and "rolling" wheel used to add radiused ends....

Grabbed a suitable scrap from the pile and used the sander to make a bead ender tool thingie, used on the treated 6x6 anvil...

Clamped and tacked....

More tomorrow......

 

[stinkity stoink]

Very nice work Robert. You make me want to get back in the garage and practice. Hopefully soon.
Thanks for posting..

 

[nonhog]

Nice! I have a similar repair ahead of me. Must practice a bit first.
See fender, where it meets inner fender? Notice the Fir needles on the one side. No wonder its rotted.
Thanks for the inspiration!

 

[MP&C]

That'll do it every time!


Well the Wheeling Machine finally has paint!

Napa Econo-etch primer....

H/K Pavo Purple and Flo Klear. I tried playing with the camera settings to get it to capture the true color, but it just wasn't happening. It may look blue in the pic, but it's about as close to Chrysler's Plum Crazy as you can get without putting a HEMI under the hood..

Here's the actual color...