xtremek
Well-known member
I saw that coming.
MP&C Shop Projects
- Thread starter MP&C
- Start date
The following weekend we ventured to Moriarity NM to the Lewis Antique Auto and Toy Museum. Heaven on earth...
The inside stuff....
a 427-8V powered 57 T-bird
Some of the treasures outside....
Give me the old stuff over the new...
Alas, all of these goodies were part of the museum and not for sale. We did spend about 4 hours there taking in the sights, even still...
The inside stuff....
a 427-8V powered 57 T-bird
Some of the treasures outside....
Give me the old stuff over the new...
Alas, all of these goodies were part of the museum and not for sale. We did spend about 4 hours there taking in the sights, even still...
xtremek
Well-known member
At least in NM they shouldn't rot very fast. There are some very sweet rides in the pics. What's the first one?
larry4406
Well-known member
Very cool Robert!
xtremek
Well-known member
So now that I'm back from the short hiatus in Albuquerque, hanging TV's for the day job... We did get to see some sights, here's cars and coffee attendees on April 17th..
My apologies, this is the one I was referencing. I recognize pretty much all the reast of those nice vehicles.
shortykorte
Well-known member
Great pictures and vehicles especially the one with the car hauler in the background.
The short busses would make for a nice ride.
Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal
The short busses would make for a nice ride.
Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal
Bob Heine
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Robert, my brain cells got a workout with that one. I recognized it as a fancy 1950s British sports car but couldn't put a name to it. Somewhere in my lizard brain a couple of cells told me Wayne Carini (Chasing Classic Cars) did a show with a couple of cars like that one. The show aired October 27, 2020 so it was my short term lizard brain memory. It's a 1954 Arnolt Bristol Bolide. They didn't sell a lot of them so a nice one (like the one in your photo) sells for around $350,000.
I believe you could handle the restoration of one of these with no trouble. The Bertone factory in Italy welded the body sheet metal into a single piece with leaded seams and made the razor edge fender tops with a "slender rib of formed sheetmetal, welded into place." Hemmings has an article on one restoration:
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/a-study-in-metalwork-1954-arnolt-bristol-bolide
Sorry to hijack your thread but my brain successfully processing a link (with Google help) got me excited.
TimeWarpF100
Well-known member
Love the demon! Friend of mine bought a new 72 340 demon. Red with black stripes hood scoop and black interior was a 4spd too. Let me drive it around long before I got my drivers license.
Edit add: I now realize its a 340 Duster not a demon. should have known no scoops
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jbmatth
Well-known member
I'm glad all of the info is out there for the 1954 Arnolt Bristol Bolide, I hadn't heard of it before but like the look.
JB
JB
Bowtie4life
Well-known member
Robert.............was that the cars and coffee out in Virginia or is that one down your way?
joe49
Well-known member
Is Archie still OK, he has to be in the '90's now. Was the trunk lid of the dark blue car in your third picture repaired now?
This past Saturday I went to the Jalopyrama show, held at the Talbot County Community Center in Easton, MD. I made a stop off at the parking lot of the Double T Diner in Parole, MD first though, had to finalize an online purchase of these two gems...
Should be some good overflow storage for the Lennox dies.. Here are some of the pictures from the show.. The Willys Woodie is a one of 6 made.
Cody Walls had two cars there in bare steel, badass to say the least. The Buick has been sectioned and roof pancaked, the 32 is heavily channeled.
This show is always a must see, and this year did not disappoint..
Should be some good overflow storage for the Lennox dies.. Here are some of the pictures from the show.. The Willys Woodie is a one of 6 made.
Cody Walls had two cars there in bare steel, badass to say the least. The Buick has been sectioned and roof pancaked, the 32 is heavily channeled.
This show is always a must see, and this year did not disappoint..
txvwnut
Well-known member
Those cabinets are cool as hell, so's the bare metal deuce with the six banger.
xtremek
Well-known member
I have to say that I hate the earth tone fad of the past few years, more than I hated the pastel fad. Doesn't take away from the quality of builds, but still.......
Bowtie4life
Well-known member
Nice show Robert.........thanks for sharing the photos!!!!
TimeWarpF100
Well-known member
'55 Wagon update?
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
Cody has build threads on both those cars over on the HAMB, they're epic. The Wayne-Chevy six engine in the '32 is way cool.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...d-3-window-coupe-“the-ardun-killer-“.1161976/
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/cody-walls-builds-the-e-job.1093095/
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...d-3-window-coupe-“the-ardun-killer-“.1161976/
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/cody-walls-builds-the-e-job.1093095/
Jehannum
Well-known member
So now that I'm back from the short hiatus in Albuquerque, hanging TV's for the day job... We did get to see some sights, here's cars and coffee attendees on April 17th..
You missed me, but you got my 240Z in the picture. The guy in the red jacket is the owner of the 1600 in the foreground
Well after about two months of travel for the day job, hangin TV's....
…..we finally got back to work on the wagon and some long overdue progress. The lift gate has been outfitted with some stainless prop rods...
Jared has been working on blocking some of the window garnish moldings, and found some low spots. The long sections on many of these when made at the factory were fabricated in multiple pieces and **** welded together in much the same fashion as band saw blades. The front, exposed side would be sanded smooth and the rear side shows a line of weld slag. (see red outlined circle)
So we had a couple that showed low areas, but could not readily metal bump with the slag on the back side.. So another tool was made with a notch to accommodate the weld line....
This allowed us to bump up the low areas...
….and.....more.....blocking...….
And we also got started on the fabrication of the fan shroud. Just as with patch panels, you will in most cases find it easier and quicker to make challenging parts in multiple pieces and weld the parts together. Then in other cases you want to try something to see if you can.... I give you one piece fan shroud.
Getting real close...
Needs a bit more work with the linear stretch dies to add some more circumference. Then we will add some bead details and a wired edge for strength. To show how much stretching we've done, the metal has gone from .044 thick to .030 at the flange edge...
And Mike was busy with buttoning up loose ends that we can do a test fire, hopefully this coming weekend, if we can get a parts delivery before then.
…..we finally got back to work on the wagon and some long overdue progress. The lift gate has been outfitted with some stainless prop rods...
Jared has been working on blocking some of the window garnish moldings, and found some low spots. The long sections on many of these when made at the factory were fabricated in multiple pieces and **** welded together in much the same fashion as band saw blades. The front, exposed side would be sanded smooth and the rear side shows a line of weld slag. (see red outlined circle)
So we had a couple that showed low areas, but could not readily metal bump with the slag on the back side.. So another tool was made with a notch to accommodate the weld line....
This allowed us to bump up the low areas...
….and.....more.....blocking...….
And we also got started on the fabrication of the fan shroud. Just as with patch panels, you will in most cases find it easier and quicker to make challenging parts in multiple pieces and weld the parts together. Then in other cases you want to try something to see if you can.... I give you one piece fan shroud.
Getting real close...
Needs a bit more work with the linear stretch dies to add some more circumference. Then we will add some bead details and a wired edge for strength. To show how much stretching we've done, the metal has gone from .044 thick to .030 at the flange edge...
And Mike was busy with buttoning up loose ends that we can do a test fire, hopefully this coming weekend, if we can get a parts delivery before then.
xtremek
Well-known member
Looks like you've been very busy. Always love the tutorials.
jbmatth
Well-known member
The fan shroud is very impressive, I will not show mine. As usual thank you for sharing all the hard work you put in and showing how it is accomplished.
JB
JB
BORING HOP YARD
Well-known member
Thank you for the update Robert!
TimeWarpF100
Well-known member
Been waiting for update . . . First fire always nice step in process. Will be waiting . .
rattle_snake
Well-known member
One piece fan shroud... Impressive, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the comments guys..
The next couple of posts will seem more of a lessons learned than progress of any sort.. Back in my youth many decades ago I was witness to what occurs when one of your siblings was too big for her britches and back talked my father. A quick back hand and she didn't do that again. From that day on, I have been a firm believer in learning from other's mistakes, so hold on and enjoy the ride. It isn't too painful..
With the fan shroud formed it was time for a bead from the bead roller, and we planned on a wired edge to add strength, concentricity, and improve the looks. From dimensions taken from the rear flange of the core support (our fan shroud mounting location) to the center of the fan worked out to about 1-3/4". So given that height, these are the dimensions we came up with for our beadwork.. Typical wrap for the wire edge is 2.5X the diameter of the wire, so given 3/16 wire our flange for wrapping should be .468 or thereabouts..
The bead roller die that matches our wire edge size was not correctly dimensioned to be able to use as a backstop, so some "filler" in the form of rare earth magnets gave us the dimension we were looking for..
So using the bead roller and the joggle dies from the Biederman hood sides, the bead/wire edge was added to our test sample.
That looked about spot on, so the bead roller was used to add the center bead on the fan shroud, and the edge was cut to size and tipped to a 90* angle..
Now to use our joggle dies to add the outer bead detail.... which looks like the shroud mounting flange is in the way.. Did I say one piece fabrication was harder?
So a new die is in order, for the bottom we have a sliding lower toolholder so that will accommodate most of the offset there. for the top, we need to stack some dies to get the offset needed.
The upper die also needed a 45* relief on the bottom for installing the lower die.
Looks much better...
Our speed run...
.....and this happens on the last pass..
The next couple of posts will seem more of a lessons learned than progress of any sort.. Back in my youth many decades ago I was witness to what occurs when one of your siblings was too big for her britches and back talked my father. A quick back hand and she didn't do that again. From that day on, I have been a firm believer in learning from other's mistakes, so hold on and enjoy the ride. It isn't too painful..
With the fan shroud formed it was time for a bead from the bead roller, and we planned on a wired edge to add strength, concentricity, and improve the looks. From dimensions taken from the rear flange of the core support (our fan shroud mounting location) to the center of the fan worked out to about 1-3/4". So given that height, these are the dimensions we came up with for our beadwork.. Typical wrap for the wire edge is 2.5X the diameter of the wire, so given 3/16 wire our flange for wrapping should be .468 or thereabouts..
The bead roller die that matches our wire edge size was not correctly dimensioned to be able to use as a backstop, so some "filler" in the form of rare earth magnets gave us the dimension we were looking for..
So using the bead roller and the joggle dies from the Biederman hood sides, the bead/wire edge was added to our test sample.
That looked about spot on, so the bead roller was used to add the center bead on the fan shroud, and the edge was cut to size and tipped to a 90* angle..
Now to use our joggle dies to add the outer bead detail.... which looks like the shroud mounting flange is in the way.. Did I say one piece fabrication was harder?
So a new die is in order, for the bottom we have a sliding lower toolholder so that will accommodate most of the offset there. for the top, we need to stack some dies to get the offset needed.
The upper die also needed a 45* relief on the bottom for installing the lower die.
Looks much better...
Our speed run...
.....and this happens on the last pass..
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So now for some hindsight. When we had done a flat test sample we noticed the edge of the lower die had made a crease (finger point). To alleviate this, I will normally taper the dies so the edges aren't tight together, in hopes of curing exactly that.
Looking back, this slight defect would have been at the edge of the center bead and likely not noticeable at all. Next, between this taper and the ~1/2" flange not wanting to stretch, the resulting shape matches the bottom die, and pulls the shroud circumference inward.. which was not desired either. So moving forward, rather than a folded flange here we should opt for an offset first for more flexibility in stretching outward for the bead detail, and then fold the flange last.
So given our misshapen and slit open fan shroud is no longer viable, what's a person to do? I'm not one to so easily throw in the towel. More accurately, I've been called hard headed. So here we go with the second take of Fan Shroud fabrication. And since we missed this step last time, take a look at this video having just cut out the center hole..
There were absolutely ZERO burrs as can be seen. If your tin snip game is not at this level, please watch this instructional video by my friend and fellow metalshaper Bill Gibson. He will explain exactly what you need to do for the same results...
I had been using tin snips for DECADES and watched this video, quickly learning what I had been doing wrong for so long...
....and then back on the NEW fan shroud, stretch with a blocking hammer on the stump, tip the edge, stretch again, until we are able to get the shroud into the power hammer...
and using the power hammer....
Getting close, we're down to about 10% more to go...
In between all that fiasco, Mike was working on getting the car test fired. All the temporary wiring connected, and for some reason we had no fuel pump action. OK, third time we've dropped the tank in a week, and removing the pump we find NO connectivity from the outside ground to the inside ground. WTF?
Lo and behold, there is no pass through on the grounds but each (inside and outside) has their own bottom tapped hole. It would appear the tapping occurred PRIOR to the anodize finish, and you know how well that conducts.. The burnishing brushes wouldn't touch the stuff, so we used some sharp implements of destruction to allow a ground path...
That fixed the issue, one that should not have been there from the start. Next, in the interest of safety, lets move the rear "lift kit" from the tires to just inboard using jack stands..
So now with a bit of fuel pressure to work with, we give you a rumble... We still need to adjust the air/fuel ratio but it was good to hear this after everything else the past couple weeks..
Looking back, this slight defect would have been at the edge of the center bead and likely not noticeable at all. Next, between this taper and the ~1/2" flange not wanting to stretch, the resulting shape matches the bottom die, and pulls the shroud circumference inward.. which was not desired either. So moving forward, rather than a folded flange here we should opt for an offset first for more flexibility in stretching outward for the bead detail, and then fold the flange last.
So given our misshapen and slit open fan shroud is no longer viable, what's a person to do? I'm not one to so easily throw in the towel. More accurately, I've been called hard headed. So here we go with the second take of Fan Shroud fabrication. And since we missed this step last time, take a look at this video having just cut out the center hole..
There were absolutely ZERO burrs as can be seen. If your tin snip game is not at this level, please watch this instructional video by my friend and fellow metalshaper Bill Gibson. He will explain exactly what you need to do for the same results...
I had been using tin snips for DECADES and watched this video, quickly learning what I had been doing wrong for so long...
....and then back on the NEW fan shroud, stretch with a blocking hammer on the stump, tip the edge, stretch again, until we are able to get the shroud into the power hammer...
and using the power hammer....
Getting close, we're down to about 10% more to go...
In between all that fiasco, Mike was working on getting the car test fired. All the temporary wiring connected, and for some reason we had no fuel pump action. OK, third time we've dropped the tank in a week, and removing the pump we find NO connectivity from the outside ground to the inside ground. WTF?
Lo and behold, there is no pass through on the grounds but each (inside and outside) has their own bottom tapped hole. It would appear the tapping occurred PRIOR to the anodize finish, and you know how well that conducts.. The burnishing brushes wouldn't touch the stuff, so we used some sharp implements of destruction to allow a ground path...
That fixed the issue, one that should not have been there from the start. Next, in the interest of safety, lets move the rear "lift kit" from the tires to just inboard using jack stands..
So now with a bit of fuel pressure to work with, we give you a rumble... We still need to adjust the air/fuel ratio but it was good to hear this after everything else the past couple weeks..
Offcenter12
Well-known member
That's a beautiful noise Robert!
stinkity stoink
Well-known member
Hot damn, that has to feel good !!
jbmatth
Well-known member
If at first you don't succeed try try again. Love that you have it running after so many years of work. Congrats to ya'll.
JB
JB
More progress on the (second) fan shroud, but I had a request to show the process in greater detail.. So we'll start with the beginning.
First was the layout of the bend line, and then the cut line was located about 3" inside of that. (I'm using some of the pictures from our first attempt as our shop photographer missed some the second time around)
The initial stretch was done using a blocking hammer on the top (flat area) of the stump, primarily at the inside edge as that needed the most stretch.
On our first attempt we had a hammer form that was used to "set" the bend line with a crowned body hammer as we added the first bit of stretch.
This seemed a bit cumbersome, and the second version I used a bent portion of round stock that was in the scrap pile, added a piece of pipe for a handle, and the band saw added a slice for a new tipping tool. The bend in the tipping tool gave it a built in fulcrum. Normally a tipping operation tries to pull the adjacent material along as the bend forms. In this case we set the panel on a table and used the bend (fulcrum) of the tipping tool against the table to pull the stretched area downward. This allows us to push down on the handle to elevate the panel off the table, and to push downward on the flat panel outside the bend line with the palm of your hand. This does a good job of placing the bend where needed without pulling adjacent metal along for the ride. Even though the pictures show the stretched area upward, the panel was placed with this area downward when using the tipping tool..
This worked much better at setting the bend line than the hammer form, and it was surprisingly accurate.
Much of the stretch was done using linear stretch dies on the power hammer, but we also reverted back to the blocking hammer and stump to better focus the stretch locations.
The other issue to overcome with both hammer operations was that they didn't play nice with keeping the shroud in a flat vertical. So the next tool used was a 90 durometer pad of polyurethane and the Model A leaf spring hammer. The hammer face was too short to match the shroud height (approx 3") so three passes were done to cover the entire height and with each pass the hammer hits were about 1/8" or so apart.
The bulk of the stretch was done on the power hammer, and the front of the lower die holder is missing quite a bit of paint from this job...
The completed bend, we started with .044 thickness (18 gauge) and it was thinned to .029 thick, or lost about 1/3 thickness to turn the 90...
First was the layout of the bend line, and then the cut line was located about 3" inside of that. (I'm using some of the pictures from our first attempt as our shop photographer missed some the second time around)
The initial stretch was done using a blocking hammer on the top (flat area) of the stump, primarily at the inside edge as that needed the most stretch.
On our first attempt we had a hammer form that was used to "set" the bend line with a crowned body hammer as we added the first bit of stretch.
This seemed a bit cumbersome, and the second version I used a bent portion of round stock that was in the scrap pile, added a piece of pipe for a handle, and the band saw added a slice for a new tipping tool. The bend in the tipping tool gave it a built in fulcrum. Normally a tipping operation tries to pull the adjacent material along as the bend forms. In this case we set the panel on a table and used the bend (fulcrum) of the tipping tool against the table to pull the stretched area downward. This allows us to push down on the handle to elevate the panel off the table, and to push downward on the flat panel outside the bend line with the palm of your hand. This does a good job of placing the bend where needed without pulling adjacent metal along for the ride. Even though the pictures show the stretched area upward, the panel was placed with this area downward when using the tipping tool..
This worked much better at setting the bend line than the hammer form, and it was surprisingly accurate.
Much of the stretch was done using linear stretch dies on the power hammer, but we also reverted back to the blocking hammer and stump to better focus the stretch locations.
The other issue to overcome with both hammer operations was that they didn't play nice with keeping the shroud in a flat vertical. So the next tool used was a 90 durometer pad of polyurethane and the Model A leaf spring hammer. The hammer face was too short to match the shroud height (approx 3") so three passes were done to cover the entire height and with each pass the hammer hits were about 1/8" or so apart.
The bulk of the stretch was done on the power hammer, and the front of the lower die holder is missing quite a bit of paint from this job...
The completed bend, we started with .044 thickness (18 gauge) and it was thinned to .029 thick, or lost about 1/3 thickness to turn the 90...
BORING HOP YARD
Well-known member
Nice work Robert! I was surprised at the amount of thinning, don't know why, it all makes sense.
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for sharing!