MRCOOL - Not Cool

[Imusprofit]

Starting my search for a mini split AC/Heat Pump for my pole building. I'm a DIY guy so I liked MRCOOLS approach - provide a complete DIY mini split system without the need for a HVAC guy to charge the lines later. So I called them to ask what size unit they would recommend. I spoke with John at MRCOOL and he asked my what size my building was. After I gave him the dimensions, he said 2 24K units, one on each side of the building and point them at each other. But wait, don't you want to know if the walls and ceiling are insulated? And how much?? What about where I live, or even what I'm going to do with the building? Surely a PB in Florida would need a different system than one in Michigan, no? He didn't seem to want to be bothered and we ended the call.
Are there any other companies that offer a complete DIY system with decent technical customer service?

 

[sgiss]

There are no other companies currently with a DIY system. Fredrick discontinued theirs in 2016. The is Climate RIght - you can sometimes find them by google...but I couldn't even find out where they are who there are - seems to be someone importing a stack of machines and slapping a name on them??? Interesting, when I asked for sizing help, I was told they could not do so, it would take someone local to do a full cooling load calculation.
I have 2 MR. Cools, 1 had a slow leak (I think it is fixed) - other working fine. Really put out the cool. In Va I am cooling 800 sq feet (1/2 is basement) with 12 k. I am cooling 16 X 14? high ceiling with 24k - both average insulation at best.. watch out for mold build up in unit - Costco is the cheapest source.

 

[kckndrgn]

Check out SharkAir, their units come precharged but you still need to pull the vacuum on the line set.
http://sharkaire.com/

Here's my thread on them.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397524

Here's a start to finish install of a sharkaire unit:

still trying to decide which way I want to go, sharkaire or mr cool.

 

[Imusprofit]

AC is great, but I also really need to heat the space. Just good enough to turn wrenches in the winter, maybe 65 or so. Can someone recommend a unit that is good for producing heat?

 

[kckndrgn]

AC is great, but I also really need to heat the space. Just good enough to turn wrenches in the winter, maybe 65 or so. Can someone recommend a unit that is good for producing heat?

Most mini-splits are also heat pumps. I just looked at the sharkaire units and they have some that are AC and heat pumps.

 

[Kaizen]

Op where are you? Sorry phone app doesn’t show.
I have a 12k mr cool also cooling a 600 sq ft apartment. Heat only good when temps are above 40 with this diy one. After that it’s using too much power to justify. Works great as cooling and dehumidifier.

If you need heat look at others like Mitsubishi and the like that produce heat to below freezing. I’m most likely going to have a portable heat source for winter work and spend the money on insulation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TRWham]

I think you have just discovered that the HVAC guy does more than just charge the lines. If you are really a "DIY guy" then should that not also include doing the load calculation yourself?

 

[Imusprofit]

I Live in NW New Jersey. I actually did a load calculation using anon-line calculator and came up with 22.9K heating and 7.8 cooling. My inquiry to MRCOOL was to confirm my findings, and to properly size the unit given the huge loading difference between heating and cooling.

 

[Jo Diesel]

I cool my 3000 sq ft shop with a 14K window unit. I have 16" blown insulation on cieling and 6" wall insulation in walls. Will keep the shop at 70 when it is 90 outside. I use a 80,000 BTU propane furnace to keep at 45 and wood stove for above that. If your shop is well insulated the 22K unit should be adequate and I thought to heating worked down to 20. You could use a Radiant heater to supplement heat

 

[kckndrgn]

Just found this company, Ideal-Air, that also has a line of DIY mini-splits. Looks like they are slightly higher priced than Mr. Cool.

No idea of their quality, just throwing this out there as another option.

 

[kinglake]

So you are looking for a different option because a rep at Mr. Cool didn't do a load calc for you? I don't know any mini-split manufacturer that is going to do load calcs for you. Mr. Cool are well know and widely used with very few issues, so this seems to be a ridiculous reason to look for a different option.

 

[sleek98]

The Mr cool drops to around 60% at 17* outside temp. So the 24k unit is really only 14.5k heater when its 17* outside.

The heat load for my building is 55-60k btus, while the cooling load is closer to 27-30k btus.

 

[Imusprofit]

So you are looking for a different option because a rep at Mr. Cool didn't do a load calc for you? I don't know any mini-split manufacturer that is going to do load calcs for you. Mr. Cool are well know and widely used with very few issues, so this seems to be a ridiculous reason to look for a different option.

Customer Service is the BEST reason to look for another product.

 

[Imusprofit]

Sleek, Good to know. I think the higher end models are more efficient at colder temperatures. I'm okay with supplementing with a space heater on real cold days. My 36 x 40 is all open, single space. I'm wondering now if just one cooling/heating unit will cover the entire area.

 

[eddieK]

I think you have just discovered that the HVAC guy does more than just charge the lines. If you are really a "DIY guy" then should that not also include doing the load calculation yourself?

BEST ANSWER everybody today seems to forget there is a value to hiring someone with trade knowledge and expertise in their field. Uh

 

[yeldogt]

Just found this company, Ideal-Air, that also has a line of DIY mini-splits. Looks like they are slightly higher priced than Mr. Cool.

No idea of their quality, just throwing this out there as another option.

don't think they sell a DIY w/ pre-charged line-set.

I like he SS flex lines they sell .. expensive .. but good idea.

 

[kckndrgn]

don't think they sell a DIY w/ pre-charged line-set.

I like he SS flex lines they sell .. expensive .. but good idea.

Yes, they do:

Flexible stainless steel 23 ft pre-charged line set with quick connect fittings to allow for easy Do It Yourself installation.

From this page:
http://www.ideal-air.com/shop/produ...and-cooling?categoryId=ideal-mini-split-units

 

[yeldogt]

Missed those .... They are much more expensive.

The DIY units are all lower efficiency .. that's the downside. Not sure 3k for the 24k BTU unit and 15seer would be the way to go.

For 4k you can get a 30seer unit with better low temp .. installed.

 

[Fueler]

The DIY units are all lower efficiency .. that's the downside.

I have often wondered why the DIY units are lower efficiency and never found the answer.
Do any pros here understand what they are doing and why?
Is it marketing to move out units that did not meet their seer goal?

 

[Firebrick43]

I have often wondered why the DIY units are lower efficiency and never found the answer.
Do any pros here understand what they are doing and why?
Is it marketing to move out units that did not meet their seer goal?

Fueler, for the most part DIY units are cheaper, Chinese made(gree), and previous generation units. The are little different than pro units other than the line sets. But they have to sell something cost competive and still get a profit to pay warrenty claims that are higher due to untrained and sometimes moronic installers. You can DIY a Mitsubishi hyper heat unit with a small investment in tools and some studying, and have the tools for other hvac in the future as well. Even the pro units are prechaged. One just has to flare, hook up, and evacuate them before opening the valves. Of course warrentee is more difficult.

Customer Service is the BEST reason to look for another product.

I to think you are being completely unreasonable asking them to do a load calc.

For one, you can't do a good job unless you see the place. What good insulation and air sealing to one is lousy to a knowledgeable person and so on.

Second, by asking square foot and placing a resonable btu load for a lousy building assures that the average customer is going to be pleased. While over sizing cost more and waste energy, most wouldn't know. However an undersized unit and its seller is going to be blamed, and you would blame him even though he was taken your word as to the quality of construction and conditions at your local.

Third, while you don't state your size of building or even basic construction, in New Jersey you should not have that Large of difference between heating and cooling. If so you messed up inputs or you got exactly what you paid for the online load calculator

 

[Imusprofit]

Fueler, for the most part DIY units are cheaper, Chinese made(gree), and previous generation units. The are little different than pro units other than the line sets. But they have to sell something cost competive and still get a profit to pay warrenty claims that are higher due to untrained and sometimes moronic installers. You can DIY a Mitsubishi hyper heat unit with a small investment in tools and some studying, and have the tools for other hvac in the future as well. Even the pro units are prechaged. One just has to flare, hook up, and evacuate them before opening the valves. Of course warrentee is more difficult.



I to think you are being completely unreasonable asking them to do a load calc.

For one, you can't do a good job unless you see the place. What good insulation and air sealing to one is lousy to a knowledgeable person and so on.

Second, by asking square foot and placing a resonable btu load for a lousy building assures that the average customer is going to be pleased. While over sizing cost more and waste energy, most wouldn't know. However an undersized unit and its seller is going to be blamed, and you would blame him even though he was taken your word as to the quality of construction and conditions at your local.

Third, while you don't state your size of building or even basic construction, in New Jersey you should not have that Large of difference between heating and cooling. If so you messed up inputs or you got exactly what you paid for the online load calculator

That was an amazing response to a point that was never brought up. Look at my original post. The HVAC Technician at MRCOOL said I needed to buy specific equipment for my building without knowing any of the building details. That's the point of my OP. He couldn't give a ****, i.e. lousy customer service.
Lots of other venders out there to buy from.

 

[danb35]

The HVAC Technician at MRCOOL said I needed to buy specific equipment for my building without knowing any of the building details. That's the point of my OP. He couldn't give a ****, i.e. lousy customer service.

...and the only way for him to "give a ****", as you see it, would be to do a load calc for you. No, I'm not seeing that as an example of poor customer service at all.

 

[justinjoyal]

The HVAC Technician at MRCOOL...

Just because MrCool refers to their sales representatives as technicians doesnt mean they are.

 

[Will S.]

I don't think it was MrCool's customer service that failed. It is not their job to do a load calc, and if the OP did a proper load calc as he says, then he doesn't need anyone else (at MrCool) to "confirm his numbers". Either it was done right, or do it again. Or pay an HVAC tech to do it. Better yet, hire an HVAC tech to do the job.

 

[Imusprofit]

I don't think it was MrCool's customer service that failed. It is not their job to do a load calc, and if the OP did a proper load calc as he says, then he doesn't need anyone else (at MrCool) to "confirm his numbers". Either it was done right, or do it again. Or pay an HVAC tech to do it. Better yet, hire an HVAC tech to do the job.

AGAIN - HE TOLD ME THAT I NEEDED TO PURCHASE TWO 24K UNITS WITHOUT EVEN ASKING FOR ANY DETAILS OF MY BUILDING. I DID NOT ASK MRCOOL TO PERFORM ANY LOAD CALCULATIONS NOR DID THEY ASK ME AND IF I HAD ANY. THE FACT THAT THEY TOLD ME TO BUY SPECIFIC EQUIPMENT WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OF MY BUILDING DETAILS IS THE ISSUE.

But I digress. Based on my experience with their customer service, I would not recommend MRCOOL. Spend you money on a company who values their customers.

 

[Will S.]

I Live in NW New Jersey. I actually did a load calculation using anon-line calculator and came up with 22.9K heating and 7.8 cooling. My inquiry to MRCOOL was to confirm my findings, and to properly size the unit given the huge loading difference between heating and cooling.

This sounds to me like you wanted them to do a load calc.

In any case, have fun with your next DIY adventure.

 

[Imusprofit]

This sounds to me like you wanted them to do a load calc.

In any case, have fun with your next DIY adventure.

Sounds to me like you have a problem with comprehension. The reason I initially chose MRCOOL was because they are one of a few companies that have a complete DIY system. Having fun with DIY projects is a passion of mine. Wasting time convincing you otherwise is not.

 

[danb35]

Sounds to me like you have a problem with comprehension.

Then explain it for us slow people. You wanted them to tell you what size of unit you needed. But you didn't want them to do a load calc for you. How, then, did you think they should tell you what size of unit you needed? Sure, I'm a HVAC n00b, but I can't see how your question can be properly answered without one.

 

[Imusprofit]

Let me restate the issue in even simpler terms so you can understand. 30 seconds into my conversation, MRCOOL spect out a system. I never got the chance to tell them my calcs, nor did they ask. The only information they asked me was the foot print and height of my building, then said I needed two 24K systems. You don't see anything wrong with that?

 

[rpcraft]

AC is great, but I also really need to heat the space. Just good enough to turn wrenches in the winter, maybe 65 or so. Can someone recommend a unit that is good for producing heat?

There is a good small 240 volt heater you might be interested in... Good for up to about 850 sqaure feet...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TK2SWO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I saw it on here and others have reported great satisfaction with it.

 

[redneckcharlie]

Unfortunately in todays world many think they can do a few searches on google, come up with a plan based on those searches and simply institute it. Many don’t feel the need to hire a pro but seek the confirmation of a pro on there conclusions. I’m guessing John told you the safe recommendation to insure your install was properly covered and you didn’t come back complaining the system was undersized. Are your calcs correct? Who knows. I’m betting they are not. HVAC happens to be one area where so many attempt to purchase/install the bare minimum. I would never install a system spec’d by someone else. Why would anybody assume the liability of equipment spec’d by someone else, let alone the homeowner. There is no upside for a pro in that situation, supplier or installer. Saying you can’t recommend a company or product that you have zero experience with is complete **** though. A phone call doesn’t count as experience.

Let me restate the issue in even simpler terms so you can understand. 30 seconds into my conversation, MRCOOL spect out a system. I never got the chance to tell them my calcs, nor did they ask. The only information they asked me was the foot print and height of my building, then said I needed two 24K systems. You don't see anything wrong with that?

 

[mike93lx]

Let me restate the issue in even simpler terms so you can understand. 30 seconds into my conversation, MRCOOL spect out a system. I never got the chance to tell them my calcs, nor did they ask. The only information they asked me was the foot print and height of my building, then said I needed two 24K systems. You don't see anything wrong with that?

How much time should they spend on the phone giving free advice?

 

[SALIV8]

Hey at least you were able to actually get in touch with someone at mr cool.

They ignored several emails I sent them, while I was serious and ready to purchase. I'm happy with my system and its not a mr cool.