Muletape footage markings, are they accurate?

[Codyboy]

I have a run of 4/0 MHF that I thought was 355 ft according to my measuring wheel.
Ok, I'll add 20 ft and buy 375 ft.

The muletape reads 400 ft at the far end and 24 ft at the lugs in the panel.

So 376 ft in the conduit.

I'm wondering if those footage markings are that accurate. They probably are I would guess.
What about stretch when its wet?

The supply house won't take back cut wire.

 

[The Cobbler]

better to have 10 or 20 ft to much than a foot short . should be easy to check the mule . measure 25' and fold it over , now you have 50'. fold that over 3 times you have 150'.

 

[mike93lx]

I'd pull it out and check some lengths.

When I last bought wire, I just manually measured the string that I pulled through and it was spot on

 

[yatg]

I have a run of 4/0 MHF that I thought was 355 ft according to my measuring wheel.

I would have run a 100' tape a few times to confirm that.

 

[Codyboy]

I would have run a 100' tape a few times to confirm that.

I ran that wheel multiple times and always within a foot or so each time.
I can't remember if I put the tape measure on it or not.
I know I checked the wheel against a tape and it was right on.
I have a 100ft steel tape. But trying to guess where the conduit run is actually at could be challenging. I guess it wouldn't hurt though.

 

[Codyboy]

better to have 10 or 20 ft to much than a foot short . should be easy to check the mule . measure 25' and fold it over , now you have 50'. fold that over 3 times you have 150'.

Yeah I figured 10 ft on each end would be more than enough for error.

 

[eejack]

I always trust the muletap ( or true tape or whatever is inside the conduit ) and run it to where the terminations are. Wheels are good for ballpark measurements.

I add 5' per 90, 5' for the nose, 5' for any splices in the middle of the run.

If it is copper I add 10' for the apprentice.

 

[Codyboy]

I measured with a steel tape 365 ft from the building to the main panel.
Then add in about 8ft from a foot underground to the top of the subpanel.
Then 2 ft to work with at the main panel.
I think I will not have any to spare at all.

I hope they did not short me on the wire and with out unrolling the whole reel I can't tell.

I can't see the footage on the end they stick in the hole on the reel its cut off right near the mark.

I think I'm going to just send it.

The worst that can happen is its just shy and ill have to splice it.
Best case would be they gave me a foot extra.

The supply house said they do go by the footage on the wire when they put it on the reel. He said it should be the correct footage I paid for.

Not sure why I wrote down 355 ft . Possibly was that but the trench may have had to be moved over some when it was dug.

I can get the stuff to splice it (compression sleeves and heat shrink) but not sure if I'd do it in the end where it would be in the conduit underground or in the riser at the building.

 

[mike93lx]

Having to splice could be terrible. You can't put a splice in the conduit

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Having to splice could be terrible. You can't put a splice in the conduit

would have to put in a handhole/christy box.... ick

 

[Codyboy]

Having to splice could be terrible. You can't put a splice in the conduit

Is that a code thing?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is that a code thing?

all splices have to be accessible

 

[mike93lx]

Is that a code thing?

Yes

 

[Codyboy]

Yes

Fair enough. However not concerned about code as we don't have that , permits or inspections.
I dont see it as being unsafe either.

But hopefully I have enough wire.

 

[mike93lx]

Fair enough. However not concerned about code as we don't have that , permits or inspections.
I dont see it as being unsafe either.

But hopefully I have enough wire.

You absolutely have code requirements, they just aren't enforced.

Splices need to be accessible for practical purposes, like service for safety

 

[mm08822]

You better measure where any splices wind up underground and record those locations. Don't put concrete over that location!

Also want the splices epoxy encapsulated to keep water away from the aluminum.

3M Scotchcast Inline Resin Power Cable Splice Kit 82-A2N. (not the correct for you but gets you close)​

I hope they all reach.

 

[dscheidt]

Fair enough. However not concerned about code as we don't have that , permits or inspections.
I dont see it as being unsafe either.

But hopefully I have enough wire.

You have a code. To get stimulus money in 2009, states were required to adopt the 2008 IECC, which includes a bunch of other codes by reference. So even if your AHJ doesn't enforce it, it exists. It's also quite likely your homeowner's insurance requires you to follow code. They'll still pay a claim if you don't, but they won't pay to bring it to code, and they may drop you if they discover you're not following the terms of the contract. (Which would probably be right after a catastrophic loss.)


splices under ground will get wet, even in Texas. Wet splices corrode, and fail. that's why they need to be accessible.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Fair enough. However not concerned about code as we don't have that , permits or inspections.
I dont see it as being unsafe either.

But hopefully I have enough wire.

code is applicable everywhere. whether its enforced or not is a different story.

and it can be unsafe since a splice can develop an issue. if its inaccessible, how could you even know about it or repair it?

 

[alfredeneuman]

Isn't there a chart on the muletape's reel or carton with the instructions...how much to add for bends, etc?
Every one I've ever used had one.

 

[Codyboy]

I see what yall are saying and yes , I guess there probably is code but in unincorporated areas in texas there is no AHJ except for commercial stuff.

As far as splicing direct bury urd secondary wire and even 35kv primary, and burying it under 4 or 6ft of dirt, I've done it thousands of times over 40 years as a lineman. That is one thing I know how to do confidently. Probably with my eyes closed.

At least several times a week we (as a courtesy) would splice customer owned URD drops near the padmount or pedestal so we could get service back on and the customer would not have to replace their drops. However they were notified there was no guarantee on the work.
And yes some splices would go bad because the mudhole was so sloppy , rain pouring on your head at 3AM we couldn't get it clean or dry enough to seal it well. Or the shovel whole digging damaged another spot we didn't see and then it goes bad there.

And if something does happen to the splice which I doubt then I will pull it out and replace it.

Now would I do this for a customer if I were an electrician? No.
This is my own wire and at this point I'm not going to eat the cost of $1600 just to get new wire 3 ft longer.
This wire is for the shop, and I could just save it and use for the house which it would be plenty long as its a lot closer to the meter pedestal.
But at this time I can't do it.

What i will probably do if I'm only short a foot or two is put a temporary splice just to get it to the panel and into the main breaker.
I do plan to add an ATS (subpanel) to the mix which will put it 2 or 3ft closer.

 

[Codyboy]

Isn't there a chart on the muletape's reel or carton with the instructions...how much to add for bends, etc?
Every one I've ever used had one.

Idk. This came on a reel form the ribbon factory. It had a box but nothing like that.
The bottom line is i got in a rush to buy wire and miscalculated.

 

[Codyboy]

Not sure how to multi quote.

Yes splices get wet. We direct bury them using direct bury heat shrink. Been done the same way the 40 years I've done it.

As far as telling if there's an issue with a splice?

Whether its buried in the ground or stuffed into a conduit or in a handhole box, you can tell by the issues your having.
Check it on this end and bad voltage. Check the feed in , its good. So its in between there.

I guess what I'm saying is that just because its accessible is not going to tell you if there's an issue with it. No one is going to continually check for an issue that doesn't exist.

When you get partial power or dim lights or no power is when you KNOW there's an issue.
Then you troubleshoot it.

 

[Codyboy]

I'm a stubborn guy but yall convinced me . Not because of code or anything like that but because if something did happen (doubtful but possible) I don't want the hassle of fixing it.

So 1600 and so.e change later I have 400 feet to work with and I'll save the 375 ft for when the house is built.

 

[mm08822]

Make sure the house is at 350'. Houses cost a lot to move.

 

[Codyboy]

Make sure the house is at 350'. Houses cost a lot to move.

Hahaha. Good thing is the house isn't built yet and I can put the panel 150ft or more closer to the meter if needed. It may not be where I wanted it but I I'm certain the wire will reach.

 

[micromind]

Mule tape is pretty accurate but as noted above, add a few feet for each 90.

 

[Codyboy]

Mule tape is pretty accurate but as noted above, add a few feet for each 90.

Yeah it probably is.

I just got in a rush to buy wire.

Not sure where I came up with 255ft add 20ft .

But I did measure it multiple times. I think the wheel i have is ****. But it did show within a foot or so each time.
But the tape measure don't lie and I guess the muletape in the actual pipe as ran don't lie either.

Eh. It's all good other than having to shell out for extra wire now vs. Waiting a few months when the house starts going up.

ETA
Maybe I saved money if the price on wire goes up!
Yep. He'll yeah i just saved a few bucks.
At least thats what I'm going to tell myself.
Just for grins, I should call my electrical supplier when the time comes to run the wire for the house, just to see the difference.

ETA 2

355FT, I'm confusing myself now. It's late.

 

[Codyboy]

Finally got my wire pulled in yesterday. Woohoo!

Went really smooth. It only had one 90 which I'm sure helped a lot.

So I guess the muletape was accurate enough.

Ended up using 385 feet of wire. I bought 400 ft but from the looks of it I got a lot more as the footage markings on the wire indicates 502 feet.
I think the guy rolling it on the reel must have lost track. Idk.

 

[mike93lx]

Finally got my wire pulled in yesterday. Woohoo!

Went really smooth. It only had one 90 which I'm sure helped a lot.

So I guess the muletape was accurate enough.

Ended up using 385 feet of wire. I bought 400 ft but from the looks of it I got a lot more as the footage markings on the wire indicates 502 feet.
I think the guy rolling it on the reel must have lost track. Idk.

Did you check the markings on the original spool you got? Would kind of **** to have bought the second one if they overshot the first, too

 

[mm08822]

Even if it started at zero eventually it gets cut. So you always need to record the starting number and subtract from the ending number.

 

[Codyboy]

Did you check the markings on the original spool you got? Would kind of **** to have bought the second one if they overshot the first, too

Without unrolling it i can't see the footage on the tail of the wire where it co.
comes through the hole in the reel.

 

[mike93lx]

Without unrolling it i can't see the footage on the tail of the wire where it co.
comes through the hole in the reel.

So we'll just say it's exactly what you ordered and forget I brought it up.

 

[mm08822]

So we'll just say it's exactly what you ordered and forget I brought it up.

Eventually, you are buying a lot of excess!!

 

[Codyboy]

Even if it started at zero eventually it gets cut. So you always need to record the starting number and subtract from the ending number.

Well yeah thats what I did. But its 498 feet they rolled up, not 502. It was early and I couldn't math properly. Lol
But still right at 100ft extra.

If i don't find a place to use it I may drive it to a trailer park and see if the maintenance guy wants to buy it at half price.

 

[whateg01]

Hahaha. Good thing is the house isn't built yet and I can put the panel 150ft or more closer to the meter if needed. It may not be where I wanted it but I I'm certain the wire will reach.

I've seen things done a certain way for a lot of reasons, but I've never that I know of seen a house built in a specific place because that's the longest extension cords somebody owned!

 

[Codyboy]

I've seen things done a certain way for a lot of reasons, but I've never that I know of seen a house built in a specific place because that's the longest extension cords somebody owned!

I was talking about the panel not the house itself.
The house will be where it was going Originally.

 

[mm08822]

I've seen things done a certain way for a lot of reasons, but I've never that I know of seen a house built in a specific place because that's the longest extension cords somebody owned!

Every day is a new opportunity.