Multi-Tool Research for Engineering Class

[Kutthroat Kane]

My team and I are seniors in high school designing a multi-tool product for our engineering class in Meridian, Idaho. We are attempting to collect data to show that our product is justifiable. Attached is an idea of what our design could possibly be like. If you could respond to the poll and/or comment your opinion with credentials we would be very grateful. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

 

[HalfFlip]

what kind of multitool are we talking about? Im willing to spend a it more for say a leatherman or swiss army knife as opposed to some cheaper or no name brand. Also features play a big role in how much I am willing to pay.

I paid 44CHF for my swiss army soldier knife, which was about the equivalent of 46USD at the time that I bought it. I probably would have been willing to pay a bit more just because it was sort of bought as a souvenir

 

[wornoutoldman]

Where is the "less than $40" check box?

 

[Westly]

Before you try to justify the product you need a product. But I can say that one weakness of multi-tools is that the included tools are not the most usable. There is a lot of compromise. For example, the ones that are basically pliers are bad pliers. Another weakness is they include tools you will never use. I think they are mostly Christmas presents. I always carry a pocket knife but would have no use for a Swiss army knife. Except maybe for the corkscrew...

 

[larry_g]

I will not buy a multi tool. The more universal a tool is the less useful it is in my experience. I am now retired but made my living handling tools. Coming to a group of tool users I don't believe your data will reflect the general public who would be more inclined to buy such a contraption.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Opinion reserved pending clarification of durability and practical usage of tool

 

[honcho]

While the comments about multitools are all valid, cut them a bit of slack folks--they're in high school! Sounds like they are getting some education on what it takes to design, make and sell something. We often complain a lot about how beancounters keep the designers and makers from getting the best and coolest things to market and the designers, engineers and manufacturing folks sometimes don't realize the impacts and costs of all their decisions. Hard to strike a balance that keeps everyone happy and turns a profit.

With some perseverance and luck, these young people will go on to great things in their chosen fields and, who knows, someday we may be using something they've had a hand in making a reality!

Cheer them on.

 

[dewmor]

I voted, but to be honest, I have had over a dozen multi-tools but have never paid for any of them. I have a few of the Gerbers that the Army has issued me and a few more that I found on the drop zones before I PCSd from Fort Bragg. They've come in handy plenty of times for me down range. I won't deploy without at least two of them in my ruck.

 

[Dave455]

Congratulations on a good idea for a project guys!

For what it's worth, here are some thoughts that may help you out a bit!

With any product that faces competition you basically have two options, firstly to do basically the same as everybody else (which gets you a small slice of a big pie), or secondly, to do something different (which gets you a small pie all to yourself)! The latter is always more challenging, but more rewarding!

Multi tools have actually been around a lot longer than you might think - google 'escape knife' to see some wartime designs, or even 'dynamite knife' to see some Victorian patterns!

The major problem that most of the current multi tools suffer from is the quality of their components. Any plier manufacturer, even the cheapest one, will tell you that pliers must be forged, and any cutting edge ground, to offer reasonable performance (look up 'How it's Made - pliers' to see this process in action) yet most multi tools use cheaply cast parts that simply don't work properly!

The same applies to screwdriver blades, which should ideally be forged, then ground! Even multi tools that use ground blades then clean them up by tumbling with stone, which takes all the edges off, including the ones you need!

Finally, I have seen multi tools incorporating pliers and screwdrivers that weigh and cost more than the proper tools, but do an inferior job!

So, perhaps for your design, look at something simpler, perhaps containing less tools, but of higher quality, which would be really useful!

Of your designs, The Revolver and Sonic One are both innovative, but these things are generally carried in a pocket or on a belt, and in either case need to be reasonably slim, so on that basis I'd favour the Pocket Snap!

 

[Outlander]

While the comments about multitools are all valid, cut them a bit of slack folks--they're in high school! Sounds like they are getting some education on what it takes to design, make and sell something. We often complain a lot about how beancounters keep the designers and makers from getting the best and coolest things to market and the designers, engineers and manufacturing folks sometimes don't realize the impacts and costs of all their decisions. Hard to strike a balance that keeps everyone happy and turns a profit.

With some perseverance and luck, these young people will go on to great things in their chosen fields and, who knows, someday we may be using something they've had a hand in making a reality!

Cheer them on.

Thank you!

This crowd is but one market segment, and a tough one at that. They will assimilate our data with the rest and formulate their business plans accordingly.

Good job guys.

 

[Westly]

Cheer them on.

I appaud them and I think most everyone else would as well. But rather than coddling he needs sincere input. From my experience as a H.S. science fair judge in Austin, he's likely brighter than all of us put together and can handle it.

 

[Hantke]

Hey, maybe what needs to be build is a larger (but still feasible) multi-tool with less "tools", but better quality / more useable? like who really uses the wine bottle opener? do we really need a separate file? or can the flat-heal screwdriver be a multi-functional tool?

Yes, i am obsessed with multi-tools, i LOVE a good multi-tool, but a bad one will have me ranting and raving all day long.

 

[Westly]

A multi-tool focused at a particular trade or task might work. Like a tool with everything a horse shoe 'er needs. Or one with everything a hvac guy needs to get a certain hvac thing happening. Might be better than one with everything nobody needs The more common the trade/task the better obviously.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

My first thought is not to buy any muti-tool. Then I read some comments about specific trades. As a fire fighter it would be handy to have a high quality multi-tool with specific functions. Some of the functions I'd look for:
1. Sharp Knife (6" blade)
2. Serrated blade/saw
3. Seat belt cutter
4. Gas valve wrench
5. Spanner wrench
6. Cable cutter
7. Pliers (bonus for vice grip and/or channel locks)
8. Carabiner
9. Window punch
10. Pry bar
11. Screw driver(s).
12. Hatchet
13. Glowing or lighted is a bonus.
14. Should be usable with heavy gloves

For a good quality tool that does all tasks well I'd expect to pay in the $200 range.

 

[Hantke]

My first thought is not to buy any muti-tool. Then I read some comments about specific trades. As a fire fighter it would be handy to have a high quality multi-tool with specific functions. Some of the functions I'd look for:
1. Sharp Knife (6" blade)
2. Serrated blade/saw
3. Seat belt cutter
4. Gas valve wrench
5. Spanner wrench
6. Cable cutter
7. Pliers (bonus for vice grip and/or channel locks)
8. Carabiner
9. Window punch
10. Pry bar
11. Screw driver(s).
12. Hatchet
13. Glowing or lighted is a bonus.
14. Should be usable with heavy gloves

For a good quality tool that does all tasks well I'd expect to pay in the $200 range.

That's quite a specific list!
For me, i have a need for
1. Sharp knife
1.5 Serrated is a bonus, if there's room
2. Phillips head Screwdriver
3. Flat head
4. bottle opener (i like the ones that also function as a flat head, nice to have multiple sizes.
5. Pliers with wire cutter
6. File is nice on rare occasions, can be apart of another tool if added
7. if not the previous pliers, the bigger ones that i can grab a nut with are useful
8. don't forget pliers, they are a necessity :thumb up:
9. those leather sewing setups / AWL on the tool is a surprisingly useful part, i've mis-used it too many times, but i live it.
10. pry bar is nice, but i don't see it as a practical tool, seems like something would break (if you could create and patent that, that'd be worth selling to Leatherman or Gerber)

 

[PugetDude]

Sorry, guys, but I haven't seen a multi-tool yet that I would want to pay over $40 for.

 

[Westly]

If he'd come back in with a post #2 I might be motivated to propose something that could make him rich and famous. Which is good enough for a kid.

 

[RedF]

A good multi-tool is valuable to have (with you), perhaps priceless. A cheap multi-tool is worthless, and perhaps dangerous.

I purchased a Leatherman Surge, and I don't regret it. Is it the true equivalent of 23 (or whatever) tools in one? Of course not but that's not the point.

 

[Dimitri]

https://www.swissarmy.com/us/product/Swiss-Army-Knives/Category/Outdoor/One-Hand-Trekker/54874

That can handle all of my needs in a every day carry type of a tool.

I used to carry the typical plier kind, then realized the pliers were not that useful, but a more ridged blade would be handy.

Dimitri

 

[isr2kba]

For years I scoffed at the multi-tool. I even had a freebie lying around. One day I grabbed the freebie because where I was going there would be no tools and I didn't have much carrying capacity. From then on I was hooked I kept it nearby (not "carried" per se) for years until finally the pliers broke when I pushed them too hard.

I promptly replaced it with a Leatherman Charge Ti which I also like to keep nearby. I use the pliers all the time and I frequently use the screwdrivers, both blades, the scissors and the eyeglass screwdriver. I seldom use the other tools but appreciate that they're there every now and then (e.g. the saw cuts through drywall and the can opener can make a new belt hole).

 

[motownsend3]

I am also a member of Kane's team. Since we started this project we have liked the idea of having one base tool that you can customize in many ways so that it can be adapted for any situation. I was wondering what you guys think of this idea? Also what tools do you think the multi-tool should have and how big do you think it should be?

 

[wvrailroader]

A multi tool for me absolutely has to have pliers. I use them when adjusting track switches and they work really well for my purpose. The knife blade is, surprisingly, the least used tool for me. I have a USA made Gerber, but the next one will most likely be a Leatherman, since most of Gerber's products are made in China.

It is really not a COO thing, but a quality one. The last Gerber pocketknife I bought was an absolute POS. The blade was total **** and wouldn't stay sharpened.

My advice to you is this:

1. Make it high quality
2. Don't set your sights on selling it in a big box store
3. Don't try to make it a one size fits all tool
4. If at all possible, it should be US made as this is a major selling point for a lot of people
5. Don't include tools very few people use just to increase the tool count (i.e. a corkscrew)
6. Don't forget to thoroughly test prototypes - I had one of the first Gerber Multi-pliers and it was a palm pinching ******* when the pliers slipped lol.

Good luck!

 

[isr2kba]

I am also a member of Kane's team. Since we started this project we have liked the idea of having one base tool that you can customize in many ways so that it can be adapted for any situation. I was wondering what you guys think of this idea? Also what tools do you think the multi-tool should have and how big do you think it should be?

For me this is a good thought. I would not be interested so much in customizing the toolset each time I had a new task but perhaps I would like to (per my post above) replace the file with a different tool or an additional saw since I never use the file.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Can it core a apple?

 

[beatcad]

hello kane & Motown.
you've come to the right place to ask about tools.
most everyone here is a serious tool user or wrench turner.
some electricians, some plumbers, some construction/house builders, some mechanics, some machinists, some hobbyists, but we all love and rely on our tools.
I don't wanna sound like a jerk here, but here goes.
most people wont use a multi tool unless in a pinch.
a "harry homeowner" will use a multi purpose tool more often.
don't get me wrong. I do have a leatherman in my motorcycle tool roll, but that's just in case.

it sound like you guys are just working on a high school project, so no real R&D matters. and its not like a kickstarter thing where you really want to put this product into production.

you just want a kick *** senior project/grade right?

if those design drawing pix are your own and you don't have to produce a prototype than yer teacher should be impressed.

wait a minute...when I was in school I had to do these kinda drawings by hand. you punks probably did these "drawings" w/ CAD

keep working at it and keep us posted. and come back and hang out w/ the tool guys more.
and give yer teacher a link to this thread. I bet he'll give ya extra credit for doing real world research. and maybe become GJ member

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

what kind of multitool are we talking about? Im willing to spend a it more for say a leatherman or swiss army knife as opposed to some cheaper or no name brand. Also features play a big role in how much I am willing to pay.

I paid 44CHF for my swiss army soldier knife, which was about the equivalent of 46USD at the time that I bought it. I probably would have been willing to pay a bit more just because it was sort of bought as a souvenir

We are currently sifting through a variety of ideas. Our goal is to go down the route of a Leatherman or Swiss Army Knife with the ability to interchange all of the tools. Thereby making it a true multi-tool which can be customized for every person dependent upon their needs.

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

Where is the "less than $40" check box?

Being as price is a major factor with production, and to compete in the market we have to be around the average selling price, anything less than $40 would compromise the quality of the product due to constraints presented in a high school setting.

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

Before you try to justify the product you need a product. But I can say that one weakness of multi-tools is that the included tools are not the most usable. There is a lot of compromise. For example, the ones that are basically pliers are bad pliers. Another weakness is they include tools you will never use. I think they are mostly Christmas presents. I always carry a pocket knife but would have no use for a Swiss army knife. Except maybe for the corkscrew...

This is what we're trying to address with a tool that can be interchanged for a number of needs. Whether you're an electrical, mechanical, civil or any variety of engineer or person who desires a tool fit to their specific needs.

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

I will not buy a multi tool. The more universal a tool is the less useful it is in my experience. I am now retired but made my living handling tools. Coming to a group of tool users I don't believe your data will reflect the general public who would be more inclined to buy such a contraption.

lg
no neat sig line

Interesting proposition. May I ask why you exactly prefer carrying multiple tools rather than one tool that could perform the same tasks? Or how exactly is a universal tool less useful?

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

While the comments about multitools are all valid, cut them a bit of slack folks--they're in high school! Sounds like they are getting some education on what it takes to design, make and sell something. We often complain a lot about how beancounters keep the designers and makers from getting the best and coolest things to market and the designers, engineers and manufacturing folks sometimes don't realize the impacts and costs of all their decisions. Hard to strike a balance that keeps everyone happy and turns a profit.

With some perseverance and luck, these young people will go on to great things in their chosen fields and, who knows, someday we may be using something they've had a hand in making a reality!

Cheer them on.

Thank you so much for the support! It is greatly appreciated!

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

I voted, but to be honest, I have had over a dozen multi-tools but have never paid for any of them. I have a few of the Gerbers that the Army has issued me and a few more that I found on the drop zones before I PCSd from Fort Bragg. They've come in handy plenty of times for me down range. I won't deploy without at least two of them in my ruck.

When being deployed did you find that you were missing anything on the multi-tool or that it had unneeded features?

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

Congratulations on a good idea for a project guys!

For what it's worth, here are some thoughts that may help you out a bit!

With any product that faces competition you basically have two options, firstly to do basically the same as everybody else (which gets you a small slice of a big pie), or secondly, to do something different (which gets you a small pie all to yourself)! The latter is always more challenging, but more rewarding!

Multi tools have actually been around a lot longer than you might think - google 'escape knife' to see some wartime designs, or even 'dynamite knife' to see some Victorian patterns!

The major problem that most of the current multi tools suffer from is the quality of their components. Any plier manufacturer, even the cheapest one, will tell you that pliers must be forged, and any cutting edge ground, to offer reasonable performance (look up 'How it's Made - pliers' to see this process in action) yet most multi tools use cheaply cast parts that simply don't work properly!

The same applies to screwdriver blades, which should ideally be forged, then ground! Even multi tools that use ground blades then clean them up by tumbling with stone, which takes all the edges off, including the ones you need!

Finally, I have seen multi tools incorporating pliers and screwdrivers that weigh and cost more than the proper tools, but do an inferior job!

So, perhaps for your design, look at something simpler, perhaps containing less tools, but of higher quality, which would be really useful!

Of your designs, The Revolver and Sonic One are both innovative, but these things are generally carried in a pocket or on a belt, and in either case need to be reasonably slim, so on that basis I'd favour the Pocket Snap!

Thank you so much for the input. We hadn't considered going back to the basics of machining and what true, good old fashioned, hard work can do.

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

Thank you!

This crowd is but one market segment, and a tough one at that. They will assimilate our data with the rest and formulate their business plans accordingly.

Good job guys.

Thank you for the support and explanation of our procedure.

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

I appaud them and I think most everyone else would as well. But rather than coddling he needs sincere input. From my experience as a H.S. science fair judge in Austin, he's likely brighter than all of us put together and can handle it.

I couldn't have said it any better. I am definitely not stating that I am brighter than all of you put together, but my group and I are very hardworking and are trying to make a terrific product. So if you're reading this and could have your friends, family, neighbors comment their opinions and take our poll, we'd be very grateful for their time and opinions.

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

A multi-tool focused at a particular trade or task might work. Like a tool with everything a horse shoe 'er needs. Or one with everything a hvac guy needs to get a certain hvac thing happening. Might be better than one with everything nobody needs The more common the trade/task the better obviously.

Exactly our thinking. If we can make a tool that can change to the users need, we think that we'll have a vast market to sell in and multiple people interested in our product.

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

My first thought is not to buy any muti-tool. Then I read some comments about specific trades. As a fire fighter it would be handy to have a high quality multi-tool with specific functions. Some of the functions I'd look for:
1. Sharp Knife (6" blade)
2. Serrated blade/saw
3. Seat belt cutter
4. Gas valve wrench
5. Spanner wrench
6. Cable cutter
7. Pliers (bonus for vice grip and/or channel locks)
8. Carabiner
9. Window punch
10. Pry bar
11. Screw driver(s).
12. Hatchet
13. Glowing or lighted is a bonus.
14. Should be usable with heavy gloves

For a good quality tool that does all tasks well I'd expect to pay in the $200 range.

Thank you so much for listing exactly what it is your tool would need to have. This will be very beneficial to have in design and prototyping. If you could possibly PM me your place of work so my group could site you and/or have your friends who are also firefighters comment on this thread, that would be tremendous.

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

Sorry, guys, but I haven't seen a multi-tool yet that I would want to pay over $40 for.

No need to apologize. What exactly discourages you from buying a multi-tool and what would you need on a tool to pay the $40?

 

[motownsend3]

We also have a longer survey on SurveyMonkey. Here is the link:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Z7JG3XT
We would appreciate it if you could take the time to take this survey. Thanks in advance to anyone who takes it.

 

[Kutthroat Kane]

hello kane & Motown.
you've come to the right place to ask about tools.
most everyone here is a serious tool user or wrench turner.
some electricians, some plumbers, some construction/house builders, some mechanics, some machinists, some hobbyists, but we all love and rely on our tools.
I don't wanna sound like a jerk here, but here goes.
most people wont use a multi tool unless in a pinch.
a "harry homeowner" will use a multi purpose tool more often.
don't get me wrong. I do have a leatherman in my motorcycle tool roll, but that's just in case.

it sound like you guys are just working on a high school project, so no real R&D matters. and its not like a kickstarter thing where you really want to put this product into production.

you just want a kick *** senior project/grade right?

if those design drawing pix are your own and you don't have to produce a prototype than yer teacher should be impressed.

wait a minute...when I was in school I had to do these kinda drawings by hand. you punks probably did these "drawings" w/ CAD

keep working at it and keep us posted. and come back and hang out w/ the tool guys more.
and give yer teacher a link to this thread. I bet he'll give ya extra credit for doing real world research. and maybe become GJ member

Don't worry about sounding like a jerk. My group and I want any and all comments. Blatant honesty and constructive, even harsh, criticism is greatly appreciative. R&D is not so big; however, we are striving for the best and if we see this being extremely promising we will pursue it to its fullest potential. The drawings, done in Inventor, are ours, are were actually designed by my two incredible teammates. We will definitely keep this thread up to date and due to our extremely tight deadline will have a prototype before April is over and a rough final product before the last week in May.

 

[motownsend3]

We have moved this forum to this link. If you would like to keep commenting please do it on this new forum:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=244270

This new forum shows our semi-final prototype that we are working on. We would love to hear what you think about it and ways that we could make it better.