Multifamily intercom system

[bzinsky]

So I have a 20 unit apartment building that I rehabbed 4 years ago. I just had a state inspection and they insisted on an intercom system that allows someone outside to ring the tenants door bell, and allow that tenant to unlock the door with an electric latch.

It’s 3 floors, and there is no communication lines feeding the apartments except for fiber ran by fios. For power there is simply a feed ran to a panel in the apartment.

Anybody know how I can install a system like this without physical wires? Or somehow using the fiber?

Running wires would be a nightmare.

Wasn’t sure if anybody had expertise in this area.

 

[mike93lx]

Did they provide a code citation?

I think it is a good idea anyway but they can't force you to do stuff based on opinion.

You can't use the fiber, it isn't yours, besides it is likely coax inside the building anyway.

Did you look for wireless options? Is there a shared staircase that conduit could be run through?

 

[ripperd]

I think they make systems that will call someone's phone, where the tenant can then talk to the person at the door and then press a key on their phone to allow the person in? This is the way it works at my in-law's apartment. So the only wiring would be at the entrance.

 

[vavet]

Reminds me of my college dorm, except we had to physically go down to the door to let them in and ****** them, especially if they were of the opposite gender. All guests were supposed to be escorted, but there's no way to know if a male was a resident or not if you just casually passed him in the hall.

 

[wanderer]

I don’t know much about this but I’m surprised they are requiring it if you’re not doing a remodel. If I had to put anything in now it would be a POE based system.

 

[johnnyradiant]

If there is telephone wire going to all the units getting a system wont be that hard. You need to mount up and wire up a panel at the front door with some Cat3 or better and low voltage line and then deal with getting the door lock installed which is powered with low voltage. Where the phone lines come into the building they will mount up a controller and tap into the line. The tenants won't need an active land line account to make it work but they do need a touch tone phone plugged in. My system will dial out to a couple numbers and have a code to unlock the door without someone answering. Alternatively there are systems that require a single operating phone line and will dial out to a number provided by the tenant - landline or mobile - the ones I'm familiar with were limited to 10 digit dialing and were a little flaky.

 

[bzinsky]

Did they provide a code citation?

I think it is a good idea anyway but they can't force you to do stuff based on opinion.

You can't use the fiber, it isn't yours, besides it is likely coax inside the building anyway.

Did you look for wireless options? Is there a shared staircase that conduit could be run through?

https://njlmn2.njlincs.net/sites/default/files/NJAC-5-10-MaintenanceOfHotelsAndMultipleDwellings.pdf

Page 58, paragraph 8 for code

It is actually fiber ran straight to the apartment, no coax, no phone. When I was doing renovations the coax was a mess, and fios agreed to run the fiber for free, so I abandoned the coax.

Conduit would be possible, just ugly AF and still not easy. I have done basic research on wireless with no solutions.

 

[bzinsky]

I think they make systems that will call someone's phone, where the tenant can then talk to the person at the door and then press a key on their phone to allow the person in? This is the way it works at my in-law's apartment. So the only wiring would be at the entrance.

Great that would be perfect. I’m going to look into that. That sounds like it’s a winner.

 

[bzinsky]

I don’t know much about this but I’m surprised they are requiring it if you’re not doing a remodel. If I had to put anything in now it would be a POE based system.

The worst part is, this is a state inspection due every 5 years.

The last one was when I started renovations! They didn’t say anything about it!

 

[bzinsky]

If there is telephone wire going to all the units getting a system wont be that hard. You need to mount up and wire up a panel at the front door with some Cat3 or better and low voltage line and then deal with getting the door lock installed which is powered with low voltage. Where the phone lines come into the building they will mount up a controller and tap into the line. The tenants won't need an active land line account to make it work but they do need a touch tone phone plugged in. My system will dial out to a couple numbers and have a code to unlock the door without someone answering. Alternatively there are systems that require a single operating phone line and will dial out to a number provided by the tenant - landline or mobile - the ones I'm familiar with were limited to 10 digit dialing and were a little flaky.

There are no telephone lines. There is only fiber and power.

Any sort of physical wire would be a ton of work.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So I have a 20 unit apartment building that I rehabbed 4 years ago. I just had a state inspection and they insisted on an intercom system that allows someone outside to ring the tenants door bell, and allow that tenant to unlock the door with an electric latch.

What was the inspection for?

Under what code violation are they making you do this?

Even with a code cite they really cant make you put it in because youre grandfathered in.

I would ask for clarification.

It’s 3 floors, and there is no communication lines feeding the apartments except for fiber ran by fios. For power there is simply a feed ran to a panel in the apartment.

Anybody know how I can install a system like this without physical wires? Or somehow using the fiber?

Running wires would be a nightmare.

Wasn’t sure if anybody had expertise in this area.

Are you sure the carrier fiber runs into each unit? thats pretty rare. And theres no phone lines running to each unit? I find that highly unlikely

Unfortunately, you may need to run some wires. The type of wires will depend on the system you go with but you can get a system that doesnt need wires ran to each unit. It uses a dialer that you program to ring the tenants number (which can be a cell phone). They push a button on their phone and the electric strike at the door then unlocks.

No you CANNOT use the carrier fiber. you dont own it.

 

[jeepxj]

https://becintegrated.com/security/...ms/telephone-entry-with-old-intercom-stations

have them ring their phones via this panel.


if they gotta have a unit in their apartment then you have to run wires. sorry.

 

[Specracer]

Door bird will work wireless, and support many units, however then you will have to have the entire property covered with WiFi. You will also have to power the main entry station, unit stations, and manage the door strike release. Surprised you got through the renovation with out this requirement.

https://www.doorbird.com/buy

 

[ard]

I think they make systems that will call someone's phone,

Great that would be perfect. I’m going to look into that. That sounds like it’s a winner.

There are no telephone lines. .

You need telephone lines to call the phone in each apartment.

The modern "everyone has cell phones" is biting you in the ****. I bet they require 'fixed' phones in each apartment. So even if you could call each renters' cell, it still doesnt solve the problem for someone in the apartment when the cell owner isnt.

Did they run fios in conduit or just wires in the walls? Obviously, you should have run conduit to each apartment....

Doorking has phone entry systems that will dial any phone number- cell or otherwise.


Edit... you could install a fixed cellular phone in each apartment.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You need telephone lines to call the phone in each apartment.

The modern "everyone has cell phones" is biting you in the ****. I bet they require 'fixed' phones in each apartment. So even if you could call each renters' cell, it still doesnt solve the problem for someone in the apartment when the cell owner isnt.

Did they run fios in conduit or just wires in the walls? Obviously, you should have run conduit to each apartment....

Doorking has phone entry systems that will dial any phone number- cell or otherwise.


Edit... you could install a fixed cellular phone in each apartment.

Every directory remote entry system Ive worked on had the ability to program any phone number into the system and the dialer was able to call the number. No phone line needed in each unit.

 

[ard]

Every directory remote entry system Ive worked on had the ability to program any phone number into the system and the dialer was able to call the number. No phone line needed in each unit.

Same here.

but the regulations seem to require a phone IN the unit.

So while you may not need 'wires' the regulations seem to specific you must communicate WITH THE APARTMENT (or "unit" as they discuss in the regs he supplied).

If the OP can show every apartment has a phone, fixed in the apartment- even if it is wireless or cellular or whatever- then a doorking or other remote entry system will work

 

[johnnyradiant]

The initial intercom in our building (I forgot about it till re-reading tonight) worked on a signal on the power. Sorta like the X10 light control systems. The intercom system at the door looked more or less like any other apt. building but in the suites they had a little box that only plugged into a receptacle when you were buzzed you pushed a button to talk and a button to unlock. No additional wiring besides power to the door for the lock and to the intercom location by the door. But when I mentioned the dialer type systems, that I had one of, being flaky, well, they seemed blessed compared to that original system. If they make anything like that still, it will no doubt be improved upon, and be simplest of all to install. It worked in an 82 unit building but I guess something would interfere with the signal and not always ring a suite. If I remember correctly the suite was id'd by assiging a unit it's own code, can't remember for sure but I think it was a couple of 9 or 10 position knobs on the underside turned with a little flat screwdriver.

Best bet is do a search for intercom companies. Round here the leader is Viscount and their key product line for this is EnterPhone. A company like that will likely have a solution or be able to point you a little closer to your solution.

 

[bzinsky]

You need telephone lines to call the phone in each apartment.

The modern "everyone has cell phones" is biting you in the ****. I bet they require 'fixed' phones in each apartment. So even if you could call each renters' cell, it still doesnt solve the problem for someone in the apartment when the cell owner isnt.

Did they run fios in conduit or just wires in the walls? Obviously, you should have run conduit to each apartment....

Doorking has phone entry systems that will dial any phone number- cell or otherwise.


Edit... you could install a fixed cellular phone in each apartment.

Yes, verizon ran conduit with fiber straight to the apartment. I went with that because it was free.

I did a full gut renovation of the building. I didn’t install phone lines because nobody uses them anymore.

It’s not a hotel, i doubt they require a fixed phone line. Most people don’t have them anyway.

 

[bzinsky]

It seems like there are wireless options that call the tenants cell phone. I think the inspector would be fine with that.

 

[mike93lx]

Are there no doorbells going to the units?

 

[Horror Business]

ButterflyMX.com

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It seems like there are wireless options that call the tenants cell phone. I think the inspector would be fine with that.

A standard door call box with directory can be programmed to call any number. As long as it has a phone line. Theres Nothing wireless in it.

I would ask for clarification before putting something in

 

[bzinsky]

A standard door call box with directory can be programmed to call any number. As long as it has a phone line. Theres Nothing wireless in it.

I would ask for clarification before putting something in

Yeah but it couldn’t unlock the door, atleast I doubt it

 

[bzinsky]

Are there no doorbells going to the units?

Nope, there are no wires except power and fiber

 

[Horror Business]

The Butterfly system I posted is wireless and should meet your code requirements. Check with the AHJ before ordering, just to be safe.

 

[Bretny]

How can code really require a fancy door bell? What state is this in?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yeah but it couldn’t unlock the door, atleast I doubt it

sure it could. all it needs is a normally closed contact that is opened upon DTMF signal from tenant's phone.

the contact would be breaking one side of the coil on the electric strike on the door.

this is done in probably millions of locations around the world.

Ive seen it done at entry gates as well.

 

[The Cobbler]

Yeah but it couldn’t unlock the door, atleast I doubt it

sure it could. all it needs is a normally closed contact that is opened upon DTMF signal from tenant's phone.

the contact would be breaking one side of the coil on the electric strike on the door.

this is done in probably millions of locations around the world.

Ive seen it done at entry gates as well.

yes, cell phone or landlines can trigger it. the system calls the telephone number, the person answers, "Joe" says, Hi, its me, tenant presses the appropriate number on the phone keypad, door releases. .
no wiring to the apts would be needed if the tenant has a landline . if they don't have a landline, they can use a cell phone. as mentioned, any number can be programed int to he system to activate the door .the system requires a phone service

 

[ard]

As wylie notes, there are hundreds of thousands of these.

Ive worked with Linear and Door King

You have a 'directory access system' at the main entrance, like this:

Ive installed a few of these. Last one was like 1500+/- for the box, just to set $$.

You give it power and a phone line. Add an electromagnetic lock actuator to the main door.

IN FACT, you can add a 'cellular card' to it, in the event there is no phone line locally. (Note you will pay $80 a month to service it, if so)


Now, anyone walks up and either (1) enters a code for themself, door opens or (2) looks up the tenant name and presses "Call". The DK box will call whatever number you have programmed for that tenant. I program land lines and cell numbers.

As stated above, the phone rings, the tenant IDs the person, and presses "9". (or whatever number you set) Door opens and the call disconnects

All well and good.



HOWEVER- if OPs local regs state that there MUST be audio access to THE UNIT, they may not accept a cell access. They may say "the point of this system, in our regs, is not 'convenience'...it is 'safety', and we require a fixed annunciator in each unit, period".

So OP may indeed need a fixed SOMETHING on the wall in each unit. OP, you should clarify. THIS QUESTION IS THE KEY ISSUE TO YOUR SOLUTION. Doorking will work with cell; butteryflymx will work w cell.... call the inspector and ask (then get it in writing)


Changing gears a bit:

Finally, if there is conduit run with each fios service to each apartment, you can run in a low voltage telcom wire to each. For telephone, or some other local intercom system.

Note that what ive specifically described here is a TELEPHONE access system- it wont work without telephones.

If you want a system that isnt telephone, or doesnt use the telephone company, maybe there is a PBX-type system...where each apartment gets an EXTENSION, say #1-20..and the look up at the front door then rings an extension. The extension can be just a 'buzzer box', button and ****** speaker in a 4x4. Old school but maybe cheap?

HTH

 

[jeffmoss26]

we do a lot of these at work - definitely not DIY friendly. My boss even set one up using google voice phone numbers and obiHAI VoIP adapters for a couple sites that do not have any POTS lines. Linear, DoorKing, Keri are some of the brands we work with.

 

[dscheidt]

Yes, verizon ran conduit with fiber straight to the apartment. I went with that because it was free.

I did a full gut renovation of the building. I didn’t install phone lines because nobody uses them anymore.

It’s not a hotel, i doubt they require a fixed phone line. Most people don’t have them anyway.

Who did the drawings for the work? Because they really screwed up if they didn't include a mandated safety system. And that's what this is, a safety system. It's not a convenience system, it's safety.