Multimeter suggestion

[M6erfan]

Probably more money than you want to spend but, I've had great luck with DMMs from electronic specialties and PDI. Powerprobe also has an excellent DMM that's inexpensive.

Here are some other recommendations:

https://www.esitest.com/585.html

The ESI 585 is my "big" DMM. Lots of features and I've had it for at least 15 years. Decent meter. That said, I find myself grabbing the Aneng 8009 all the time for basic measurements, it's so small and handy. The display on the Aneng is nice too, much better than the older ESI, on these aging eyes. Low cost ($50 range) meters have come a long way.


-

 

[Mechanical Noise]

I have 4 or 5 of the low end HF meters. I checked them against a couple of precision voltage references and they're within 1 or 2%. Plenty close for anything automotive I can think of.

The input impedance is 1 megohm which is OK but nearly every other digital multimeter has a 10 megohm input.

The resistance range seems pretty poor in that it's inconsistent. The lowest range seems the worst. I think it's an issue with the cheap switch but I didn't put any effort into figuring it out. The current ranges might be about the same, I'm only using the HF meters for voltage checks.

One thing that I really like, that the low end HF meter lacks, is an audible continuity indicator. This can be very handy when your eyes need to be on the probe tip and the connector, rather than on the meter.

If you're just checking automotive voltages, the HF meter is fine. If your troubleshooting extends to resistance readings and continuity checks, pretty much anything else will be a step up.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

They aren't "Fluke style" they're just standard shrouded banana connectors. If you're willing to take the time and spend the money to buy and modify leads to use with a free meter, be my guest.

The leads looked "Fluke-ish" to me but, I'll admit, judgements such as that are outside my core competence. They were inexpensive and I'm sure they aren't genuine Fluke. In fact, one of the tips broke from one of the probes with only minimal abuse. I replaced the probe with an alligator clip.

Another modification that worked out well.

 

[redm18]

I just bought a Fluke 17B+ on eBay. It's a Fluke meter made for the Chinese Market. Manual is in Chinese and no warranty but it seems like a real nice meter so far. Look around at them on YouTube they seem to be well regarded. I'll be honest part of the reason I bought it was I wanted the yellow look in my box.

 

[jeepinerdeep]

For what you are asking, there are a lot of meters that will do the job. Uni-T, ESI, Basic Extech's, used Blue Points.

If you want to get fancy, Keysight and Fluke both have some basic models in the sub $150 area.

 

[Citation]

I'm calling BULL **** on this.

I don't doubt the cheap HF meter might have a lower input impedance....I doubt it's less then 100K....I did check and couldn't find anything.....but I did find this link...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/harbor-freight-cen-tech-90899-small-teardown/

I'm willing to bet the impedance is more like 1M...which means it would draw 0.000012 ma when connected to a ckt. I really doubt the OP is going to be probing points on the computer. By his own admission, checking the battery...alternator....maybe a fuse.

This meter will be fine. It will also work well for checking D, C, AA batteries...and the occasional outlet in his house.

I know from testing the HF meters have a 1Mohm imput impedance. I typically see 10Mohm from most, non-junk digital meters.

The cheap HF meters aren't too bad in terms of accuracy but safety is another mater.

That is a really bad response because you sound like you don't know what you are talking about.

I should add...I've used one many times in my house to check outlets to see if they are hot....

The ONLY issue I've had with the meter...are the POS test leads. But, I was able to use an old set of leads from my Fluke on the meter...

So....spare me the 'Harbor Freight is bad' comments....

That meter is no more dangerous than my Simpson 260. Put it in the wrong mode and you can get magic smoke escaping from it as well.



Yes

This is a bit like saying a Ford Pinto is safe because I drove one for years without getting hurt. True but some of the safety differences between a Pinto and a new Ford Focus are things that only matter after something went wrong.

In the above video a Fluke rep shows what happens when the cheap meter is connected to high voltage while in the ohm range. Sure that is a bit of an extreme test but would 240V do the same? I know 120V into the resistance range kills the meter. It has no negative impact on my Fluke or Brymen meters. Another safety example is the lack of a fuse on the 10A range. If you had the leads in the wrong plug when measuring something like the voltage of your car battery something is going to fuse. If you are unlucky it might be the leads in your hands.

Don't get me wrong, I have a bunch of these meters around the house/in cars (they were all free). I understand their safety limits so I typically only use them for voltage/resistance checks on low power/voltage things. If I needed to check something like a wall outlet or higher voltage/power line I would use a better meter. This isn't a question of accuracy, just safety... well that and just nicer to use most of the time.

As for the OP's question, lots of good meters out there. My two best recommendations are either the UniT UT210E that others have suggested or search ebay for a deal on a Bryman based meter. The best deals seem to be either the Greenlee DM820A or the Matco 257. I've seen examples of each go for under $50. Both are great meters at that price. The UT210E is under $50 new. It's a clamp meter with only a few issues. The biggest one is the continuity tester is slow. The lack of frequency could be an issue. Finally, as a clamp meter it doesn't sit well on a bench. However, you always have a clamp to help you hang it over where you are working.

 

[engineer2]

For years I used an AW Sperry Techmaster. Never really liked it because the readings bounced around too much before settling.

Inherited my dad's cheap Craftsman multimeter and I use it all the time now. I wish it was one more digit though. It's fine for household and general automotive use. The 1.5V/9V battery tester is very handy.

If I need precision (which is hardly ever), I have an old Keithley bench meter.

Someday I'll get a nice Fluke since my wife can get them at cost, but I don't have an urgent need for one and an 87V kit is $300-ish anyway.

 

[engineer2]

Here is a EEVblog video with decent (but 10 year old) advice.

The problem with some of the cheapies is the rotary contacts are too close together on the circuit board so an accidental over-voltage lets smoke and flames out. That is a situation the average hobbyist isn't going to run into.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The ESI 585 is my "big" DMM. Lots of features and I've had it for at least 15 years. Decent meter. That said, I find myself grabbing the Aneng 8009 all the time for basic measurements, it's so small and handy. The display on the Aneng is nice too, much better than the older ESI, on these aging eyes. Low cost ($50 range) meters have come a long way.


-

Small world, i have the same meter for work. Well equipped and has been reliable for about 6 years for me.

I'd definitely recommend it.

 

[Rinspeed]

At the shop we have at least 16 Flukes and the damn things just don't break. They are a little more money but well worth it, I wouldn't even consider anything else.

 

[Mr. T]

110 won't electrocute you, it will shock you. Pet peeve.

120VAC can definitely kill you. This is not debatable. It happens all of the time.

If you don’t believe me, hold a neutral in your hand and then grab the hot with the other. My money says you might be dead. Your body has enough resistance that you won’t even blow the breaker. And if you’re wearing rubber shoes you won’t trip a gfci until your carcass hits the ground.

The correct procedure would be to measure the circuit, flip the breaker, and confirm the reading has changed before starting work.

This not the correct procedure.

1. Test meter on known voltage source.
2. Take your reading.
3. Test meter on known voltage source.

Seems a bit much for working on a 120 outlet. I mean really, what are the chances your meter dies right after you took the first reading and is giving you a false zero now. On the stuff I work on, not taking that chance.


Also, I have a couple of free HF meters. Surprisingly accurate voltage readings when compared to high end calibrated annually meters. That being said, they are not well protected from voltage surges. Very unsafe to use on mains voltage.

Have I used one on a 120 outlet before in a pinch, guilty. But I knew the risk that I was taking. That’s important.

BTW: I’m not saying this to be rude or call you a liar. I’m sure that you posted it in good faith. Electrical work and electricity is not easily understood, and misconceptions abound. I’m just trying to keep people safe.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

How is a meter going to electrocute you, checking an outlet? Holding the rubber leads? The meter is made of plastic. The tips will be fully engaged, and unable to create a dead short across each other. I agree dropping a toaster in the bathtub or grabbing the wires tightly with intent can pull enough amps across you heart to stop it. Plenty of people and lots of electricians get little kisses from 110 which while sucky, do not kill. I'm not advocating for being foolish with electricity; just stating that people play with 110 all the time, lots of foolish people who don't know what they're doing. And it doesn't seem like we're loosing people who install new outlets or ceiling fans regularly. The little test light tool for 110 is the ultimate DIY outlet voltage checker. JMO

We're talking about the occasional "stick the leads in the outlet" check. Yes, anything can happen. People get attacked by sharks and killed by falling coconuts. People, myself included, just said a HF cheapo is capable of doing so. It is.



For the sake of discussion: How does one determine the meter is safe to use?

Price?
Brand?
Do you get it calibrated?
Do you do multiple checks? Known power, test, known power can still easily fail due to a damaged or worn lead.

 

[softailgarage]

How is a meter going to electrocute you, checking an outlet? Holding the rubber leads? The meter is made of plastic. The tips will be fully engaged, and unable to create a dead short across each other. I agree dropping a toaster in the bathtub or grabbing the wires tightly with intent can pull enough amps across you heart to stop it. Plenty of people and lots of electricians get little kisses from 110 which while sucky, do not kill. I'm not advocating for being foolish with electricity; just stating that people play with 110 all the time, lots of foolish people who don't know what they're doing. And it doesn't seem like we're loosing people who install new outlets or ceiling fans regularly. The little test light tool for 110 is the ultimate DIY outlet voltage checker. JMO

We're talking about the occasional "stick the leads in the outlet" check. Yes, anything can happen. People get attacked by sharks and killed by falling coconuts. People, myself included, just said a HF cheapo is capable of doing so. It is.



For the sake of discussion: How does one determine the meter is safe to use?

Price?
Brand?
Do you get it calibrated?
Do you do multiple checks? Known power, test, known power can still easily fail due to a damaged or worn lead.

https://www.leafelectricalsafety.com/blog/digital-multimeter-danger

 

[Mr. T]

Yes, anything can happen.

Yes, anything can happen. I suppose it doesn’t matter unless it happens to you.

We have ventured far off of the path from what the OP asked.

I’m not here to prove anything.

To the OP. Just about any meter is good enough for automotive use. Just be careful about plugging a cheap meter into an outlet.

 

[Max]

110 won't electrocute you, it will shock you. Pet peeve

Normally when someone says something stupid I just let it slide. But since you’ve gotten to the really, really stupid zone and are giving advice that could get someone killed I need to speak up.

AC greater than 50-60V can kill you. How voltage affects you depends on the resistance in the circuit (mostly your skin resistivity) and the path that the current takes. Current matters too, and for AC frequency matters as well. However, since your skin generally has a high resistance you need the higher voltage to get a current flowing.

A path that goes hand to hand is very dangerous as the current will go through your heart. A path finger to finger maybe not as much unless you are unlucky. Hand to foot and there your pesky heart is in the way again.

The plural of anecdote is not data. Maybe you’ve been bit by 120 and not died, or your buddy has, or your Mom has. But that doesn’t mean that someone can’t, or hasn’t died in a similar situation. Please don’t advocate doing things that can get someone killed.

Actually here is a reference that explains that as low as 20V can be dangerous. https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-3/ohms-law-again/

And if you want more on the medical side: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2001/0601/p2264.html

To the OP, Klein makes good alternatives to Fluke that are cheaper. Other folks here have suggested other good alternatives as well. The problem is many of the cheaper meters skip protection circuits, or they have poorly implemented protection that doesn’t work, or doesn’t meet certification.

Max

 

[Rabid Badger]

For the sake of discussion: How does one determine the meter is safe to use?

If you don't know the answer to that question what the hell do you think you're doing offering advise to others?

Price?
Brand?

Asking advise can help. Unless of course you run into a group that will give bad recommendations and then make **** up when they get called out.

Do you get it calibrated?

Unless you're doing precision electronics work this isn't necessary.

Do you do multiple checks? Known power, test, known power can still easily fail due to a damaged or worn lead.

This is why you inspect your leads carefully and do a continuity/resistance test any time you're going to be working around dangerous voltages.

If a lead looks damaged or gives you suspect and/or intermittent readings, you replace it.

Again, if you're asking questions like this you have no place giving advice to others.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

If you don't know the answer to that question what the hell do you think you're doing offering advise to others?



Asking advise can help. Unless of course you run into a group that will give bad recommendations and then make **** up when they get called out.



Unless you're doing precision electronics work this isn't necessary.



This is why you inspect your leads carefully and do a continuity/resistance test any time you're going to be working around dangerous voltages.

If a lead looks damaged or gives you suspect and/or intermittent readings, you replace it.

Again, if you're asking questions like this you have no place giving advice to others.

I asked for the sake of discussion. Asking opinions from the internet is no more valuable than just buying a random meter. Unless someone here is qualified to disassemble and certify meters as "safe", and confirm the brand is producing with a solid QC, it's all hearsay. That was my point. No one one here (that I'm aware of) has the credentials to decide a meter is "safe". If it is certified, who certified it? Is it a real cert, or did they just slap it on the box? How can one know their new fluke is safe without 3rd party certification? You can't. The consensus seems to be spend above X dollars, and it should be safe. Common sense sanity checks like continuity, checking known voltage, and inspecting leads for damage are all thing we agree on.


My question is why such things couldn't be done with a HF volt meter? My opinion is you don't need a CAT IV rated setup to check an outlet. I also feel a HF volt meter, set to AC (not DC, duh) volts, and probed into an outlet, is unlikely to cause issues.

 

[Lassen Forge]

How deep are you getting into checking?

I got a Fluke 88V because I wanted everything it could do, and I wanted someting I could trust. So far it's paid for itself 10x over.

I have had absolute ****** luck with a "cheapy dvm" whether it's Shadio Rack, Horror Fright, or whatever was in the $20 bin at NAPA... it all depends what you want and need to do. Use as a test light? Fine. Check to see if you have voltage on a line, and what that voltage approximately is? Great. Need to measure current draw on your ECM? See what the output range is on a sensor? Good luck...

 

[sreeb]

There are a lot of decent meters in the $30-$50 range. They used to put a decent Craftsman model on sale for $20 at Christmas and Father's day.

If it is not too hard on the budget, I suggest spending a bit more and getting a meter with a "amp clamp" like a Uni-T UT210E.

The DC clamp capability makes this a great choice for automotive.

Remember that it defaults to AC so you will always be pushing the function button to get to DC.

 

[Rabid Badger]

I asked for the sake of discussion.

You were asking for the sake of obfuscation, because rather than admit you lack the knowledge to give appropriate advice you planned on denying all terms and parameters the discussion might be based on, as demonstrated below:

Asking opinions from the internet is no more valuable than just buying a random meter.

Just like I said before, only when unqualified idiots chime in.

Unless someone here is qualified to disassemble and certify meters as "safe", and confirm the brand is producing with a solid QC, it's all hearsay. That was my point.

Your point is unadulterated horseshit. By the standard you're putting forward it's impossible to know the quality of any product.

No one one here (that I'm aware of) has the credentials to decide a meter is "safe".

I know what good input protection looks like. I know what trace and component spacing is required for a meter to be safe at different energy levels. I know the features of a properly designed housing. What more do you want to know?

If it is certified, who certified it?

Usually UL, Intertek or CSA.

Is it a real cert, or did they just slap it on the box?

You know the whole point of these certifications is that they are verifiable, right? You can go to their website and view their records.

How can one know their new fluke is safe without 3rd party certification? You can't.

I'm not even sure what you're saying here. Flukes are independently certified.

The consensus seems to be spend above X dollars, and it should be safe.

I've seen a pretty wide range of meters recommended in this thread. I made two recommendations myself. One goes for around $200, but the other is less than $50 and carries an Intertek certification.

Common sense sanity checks like continuity, checking known voltage, and inspecting leads for damage are all thing we agree on.

Good.

My question is why such things couldn't be done with a HF volt meter?

Nobody said you can't. Lots of people said you shouldn't, and they're right. For the same reason you shouldn't go mountain climbing with carabiners that come with water bottles. It's rarely a good idea to do something dangerous with the worst equipment available.

My opinion is you don't need a CAT IV rated setup to check an outlet.

Correct. CATII is the proper rating for that kind of work.

I also feel a HF volt meter, set to DC volts, and probed into an outlet, is unlikely to cause issues.

Really?

I suppose that would depend on your objective. If you're trying to determine if the circuit is live I'd say that's just about guaranteed to cause some pretty serious issues.

Maybe try AC volts instead.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

^ Ah, too much time doing DC electrical work. Typing that is second nature. I'll fix it up

 

[Kev-o]

I used to be a FLUKE rep. Just buy the Amprobe. Amprobe is owned by Fluke and made in the same factory it just has different color. literally the same boards inside at half the cost.

Also dont buy their insulated tools they are rebranded knipex and wiha with crazy markup.

Another good brand is klein.

 

[Citation]

I used to be a FLUKE rep. Just buy the Amprobe. Amprobe is owned by Fluke and made in the same factory it just has different color. literally the same boards inside at half the cost.

Also dont buy their insulated tools they are rebranded knipex and wiha with crazy markup.

Another good brand is klein.

I know Fluke owns Amprobe but certainly not all Amprobe models are based on Fluke products. The AM-270 (a very nice meter) and it's related models are all based on Brymen meters. That's OK as Brymen clearly takes safety seriously. As a rule, Flukes are my favorite meters when I'm not paying for them . The 87's are great, I've got a 187 which is even better though not as rugged. However, I find, used or new, Brymen (and rebadges like Matco, Greenlee, some Extech, some Amprobe) to be the better value. You get 90% of the meter for 50% of the cost.

 

[cbracer]

I'm a big Fluke fan, but I picked up one of these because it was smaller and the best part is the bluetooth app to my iphone, which works so awesome!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M4J727W/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Danglerb]

DC current clamp is my top required feature.

HF meters are close to junk, worst part being the probes, but replace the probes with anything decent, ie $5 or so on ebay, and they are fine for a lot of tasks.

Auto range can be a problem with old eyes, mV can look a lot like a normal V level reading.

Not even at Fluke prices does the smarts to use it right come included, but a Loadpro and Power Probe come close.

 

[Wrench97]

Power probe is one of my go to tools but the ability to apply current and ground gets a lot of newer techs in trouble fast.
Load pro leads I was never impressed with I feel I can do the same faster with a loaded circuit and a good old fashion test light.

For a clamp meter I use a Fluke 325 or my ASE wave low current probe for ma with a meter or a scope.

 

[original_chisel]

Trust you,2ndGear, to come to the rescue. And you're right. Chap will be surprised.
Especially at how many times it hurts. 50 times a second (in my corner).

 

[original_chisel]

Trust you,2ndGear, to come to the rescue. And you're right. Chap will be surprised.
Especially at how many times it hurts. 50 times a second (in my corner).

 

[FuzzyTiger]

My question is why such things couldn't be done with a HF volt meter? My opinion is you don't need a CAT IV rated setup to check an outlet. I also feel a HF volt meter, set to AC (not DC, duh) volts, and probed into an outlet, is unlikely to cause issues.

I ran into a situation recently. I'm not an electrician so I don't know the exact terms here but from what the electrician explained to me: Electrical cable running to the building had been damaged and was shorting out on the conduit/casing. Maybe the more electrically knowledgable people here can explain how but as a result - a circuit that should have been 110V with a 15 amp breaker was actually multiple times that voltage with no breaker. Nearly burned the building down. In the process of diagnosing the issue, it popped the fuses on two Fluke meters (both are perfectly fine with new fuses now) and caused a cheaper meter to die and give off a burning smell.

Anyways - the point I guess I'm getting at, assuming everything is as it should be, you don't need a fancy multi meter. But at the same time, if everything is as it should be - why are you poking it with a multi meter in the first place? I'm sure my example is pretty unusual but I definitely don't regret having my fancy fluke meter.

I think going for the cheapest option is a mistake with most tools. But you also don't need to spend a lot of money either. A used Fluke or a new value brand but still decent quality will probably be the last multi meter you'll need as a hobbyist. It'll keep you safe and it won't need replacing every time you go to use it.

 

[anndel]

I have a Fluke 87 IV from the 1990s and a Uni-T with current clamp. Both are fine and everything in between.

 

[dogdog]

have this world gone mad?

No one suggest a Snap-on. Your skill level automatically goes from 1 to 100 with a snap-on.

 

[Negen]

The snap on metres are probably made by uei at least the Korean ones. I suspect that most Korean multimeter's are made by uei. Best place to check for info about multimeter's is eevblog and his forums.

have this world gone mad?

No one suggest a Snap-on. Your skill level automatically goes from 1 to 100 with a snap-on.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[richfinn]

The snap on metres are probably made by uei at least the Korean ones. I suspect that most Korean multimeter's are made by uei. Best place to check for info about multimeter's is eevblog and his forums.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using The Garage Journal mobile app

UEi make great value tough meters (without Snap-On badges)

I like the Fluke 77/78, its got exactly the functions I need, its simple to operate and well designed (no backlight sadly as its from another era), very tough little meter if you can find a good one!!!!

The 87/88 range are great too, but I have a scope and dont really need the extra features

Multimeters are like any other tool, buy a "good one" and it will be a pleasure to use and last a lifetime