Multimeter

[Max]

hFE measurements on a DMM are right next to useless as you get the gain at a single point. It’s also not possible to have a good test point for a small signal transistor and have the same point be a good one for a power transistor. And that’s if even your DVM specifies what the test point is.

If I am testing a transistor I use a DMM on ohms to test the two junctions as a go/no-go test. If I need anything past that (rarely) it’s curve tracer time.

I can’t speak for Fluke, but I would expect that they don’t include a hFE test as they know it’s a gimmick at best.

Max

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

The 87V more accurate than the 179.

Between the two the 87V is definitely the better meter.

As an 87V owner I still recommend you save yourself $150 and get the Brymen BM869s. It's accuracy and build quality is on par with the 87V and its additional features are very useful.

Looked into the suggestion and it seems brymen isnt as available here in the us, but there are rebadged versions called greenlee. Would you say that overall these are good, or just as good as fluke?

 

[Rabid Badger]

Looked into the suggestion and it seems brymen isnt as available here in the us, but there are rebadged versions called greenlee. Would you say that overall these are good, or just as good as fluke?

The Greenlee's are quality meters but they don't sell an equivalent to the BM869s. In post 14 there's a link to a reputable site that ships to the US.

 

[Citation]

Looked into the suggestion and it seems brymen isnt as available here in the us, but there are rebadged versions called greenlee. Would you say that overall these are good, or just as good as fluke?

Generally as good. Again, I really like Fluke's touch-hold function and the Greenlee DM820A I have doesn't have that function. It also doesn't have the 20,000 count mode. Conversely, it's actually got better high voltage protection. The big win is again the price. My DM820A was under $50 used on ebay (in less than clean shape). Under $100 for clean examples were common.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greenlee-DM-820A-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter/123795261491

Another Brymen is this Matco
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matco-Tools-MD257-Tech-MultiMeter-HE1016395/352696950586

This is a smaller unit but has a really nice feature set. I would highly recommend it as a smaller alternative to the DM820 sized meters (they are big)

I think the Greenlee DM-860A is the same as the Brymen 869. It is 500k count but I'm not 100% certain feature for feature.

 

[Rabid Badger]

I think the Greenlee DM-860A is the same as the Brymen 869. It is 500k count but I'm not 100% certain feature for feature.

Yeah, the DM-860A is the same as the BM869s. I couldn't find in on Greenlee's website for some reason. They tend to sell for $100 more than the Brymen, though. Benefits of living in the US, we pay more for everything.

 

[lan240]

I use a Fluke 88V and it does everything I need.

 

[billford]

My fluke 88 is over 25 years old. Still use it everyday.

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

I've decided on the brymen bm869s but I've never dealt with tme site seems really odd, are there other sources for the 869s. How is tme about warranty?

 

[akatsuki]

I just bought a Brymen from TME and had no issues. But obviously haven't had warranty issues to need a claim yet. The price can't be beat and although I don't think that Brymens have the durability rep of Flukes, I can afford to buy another later for the same price as one Fluke.

The folks over at eevblog speak pretty highly of tghem

 

[fitter30]

Two meters one multi the other amp probe. Reason and it nevers fails if one meter fails always have something to check voltage and continuity.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

My Fluke 87 is over 25 years old and still works like the day it was new. If it did fail I would purchase another one.

 

[CR888]

Everyone seems to really like & recommend USA made DMM's like fluke, Klein, Greenlee etc. I bought a NK-teck China DMM true RMS with a bunch of features, even temperature which is handy as I use a spark plug thermocouple washer for 2T tuning. I've been VERY happy with my meter, I bought some extra leads and probes/clamps to make some tasks easier. I just wasn't prepared to spend $50-150 on a DMM and am very happy with the one I have. While I don't have much electrical experience or know much about DMM's, am I missing something, is there anything wrong with the cheaper import options. Mine seems well made an has worked fine for the little use I've given it. I bought mine new off an auction on eBay for $15 delivered.

 

[Fix Until Broke]

Typically it's safety related - for CATIII or CATIV use on 480v 3phase circuits, but if this one below is similar...It's CATIII/IV rated just like the much more expensive ones.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LHYCQAY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Depending on it's accuracy and update rate - looks like a good low cost solution for occasional use?

 

[CR888]

Thanks, that I think is a really good answer. The model you linked is the NK-61P and I have the NK-51D. Written non the top corner of my MM is 600v CAT III & under that is 1000v CAT II. It also says CE 6000 counts, TRUE RMS, fused 10max /fused 600mA max. But sure I get it now about the safety factor, sparkies doing various diagnostics would put a LOT of trust in their testing tools they may have to use on live circuits etc. I mainly use mine for automotive electrical work and general stuff around my house. And I probably wouldn't have such a highly featured tool if it had the high price tags many here pay for top shelf ones. But, thanks for your response, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Fix Until Broke]

I don't recall the specific details of the CAT ratings, but do recall from my arc flash training that you really don't want to do anything with CAT II. CAT III was acceptable and CATIV was recommended. We work on 480v 3 phase circuits in VFD's which will have DC Busses up over 600V so everything was CAT III/IV.

For general automotive and household (240vAC and below) - most of the less expensive meters would be acceptable (assuming you trust the ratings and that they didn't just put the label on ).

All the rest of the features of the more $$ options are really preference. I've used cheap meters and while they work, they're usually slow. Want to take a resistance measurement on a resistor - you'll need 2-3 seconds to get a stable reading whereas on a Fluke 179 it's well under a second. Similar with voltages. This may change as time goes on and which specific make/model you get.

 

[Davefr]

Everyone seems to really like & recommend USA made DMM's like fluke, Klein, Greenlee etc. I bought a NK-teck China DMM true RMS with a bunch of features, even temperature which is handy as I use a spark plug thermocouple washer for 2T tuning. I've been VERY happy with my meter, I bought some extra leads and probes/clamps to make some tasks easier. I just wasn't prepared to spend $50-150 on a DMM and am very happy with the one I have. While I don't have much electrical experience or know much about DMM's, am I missing something, is there anything wrong with the cheaper import options. Mine seems well made an has worked fine for the little use I've given it. I bought mine new off an auction on eBay for $15 delivered.

If you're not using the meter as an everyday occupational tool and if you never plan to work with anything over 120 VAC, then there are ton's of lower cost/fully capable DMM's.

The bang for the buck wrt DMM's has never been better then it is right now and there's tons of credible DMM reviews/comparisons on youtube.

 

[MattT]

It's CATIII/IV rated just like the much more expensive ones.

I wouldn't trust the "self certified" CAT rating on that meter. It has 250v fuses in it which appear to be 3ABs. Interupt rating on good 3ABs isn't near high enough for the available fault current on most residential service entrances. And I doubt that thing has good fuses in it either.

I'll keep my UL, CSA, and VDE certified Flukes for working in CAT III and higher environments

 

[Fix Until Broke]

I don't recall the specific details of the CAT ratings, but do recall from my arc flash training that you really don't want to do anything with CAT II. CAT III was acceptable and CATIV was recommended. We work on 480v 3 phase circuits in VFD's which will have DC Busses up over 600V so everything was CAT III/IV.

For general automotive and household (240vAC and below) - most of the less expensive meters would be acceptable (assuming you trust the ratings and that they didn't just put the label on ).

All the rest of the features of the more $$ options are really preference. I've used cheap meters and while they work, they're usually slow. Want to take a resistance measurement on a resistor - you'll need 2-3 seconds to get a stable reading whereas on a Fluke 179 it's well under a second. Similar with voltages. This may change as time goes on and which specific make/model you get.

I wouldn't trust the "self certified" CAT rating on that meter. It has 250v fuses in it which appear to be 3ABs. Interupt rating on good 3ABs isn't near high enough for the available fault current on most residential service entrances. And I doubt that thing has good fuses in it either.

I'll keep my UL, CSA, and VDE certified Flukes for working in CAT III and higher environments

See bold above - we're on the same page here.

How do you know this meter has 250v/3AB fuses in it?

 

[MattT]

See bold above - we're on the same page here.

How do you know this meter has 250v/3AB fuses in it?

Looking thru' the pictures on amazon one shows a sticker saying the fuses are 250v. Another shows the meter case open with the fuses showing and I held a scale on the picture. They look to be 1/4" by 1 1/4" if the V to ground spacing is standard. And they're ceramic. So 3ABs is my best guess unless they've used slow blows.

And FWIW I didn't notice the bolded part when I quoted you.

 

[BMack37]

Everyone seems to really like & recommend USA made DMM's like fluke, Klein, Greenlee etc. I bought a NK-teck China DMM true RMS with a bunch of features, even temperature which is handy as I use a spark plug thermocouple washer for 2T tuning. I've been VERY happy with my meter, I bought some extra leads and probes/clamps to make some tasks easier. I just wasn't prepared to spend $50-150 on a DMM and am very happy with the one I have. While I don't have much electrical experience or know much about DMM's, am I missing something, is there anything wrong with the cheaper import options. Mine seems well made an has worked fine for the little use I've given it. I bought mine new off an auction on eBay for $15 delivered.

Fluke's higher end models are made in the USA but the 11* series is made in China.

Klein DMMs are made in China.

Greenlee/Brymen are made in Taiwan.

It's not like hand tools were everyone circle jerks over USA made, certain brands can just be trusted...btw, I wouldn't trust a Klein DMM or clamp meter to last.

Right now pretty much all meters will be accurate enough for most people to get by but safety, longevity and speed are the factors you're paying for. Every big brand should be safe but they won't all last as long as a Fluke. Also, keep in mind the environment where you see most of the DMM reviews from on a place like EEVB, from indoor electronics labs/shops/desks.

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I decided that I likely wont ever deal with 1000v, let alone 600. Realistically I probably wont deal with anything over 240 for residential purposes. Everything else really isnt my problem but the electric company's so I'll leave that too them.

I recently had a control board go bad in my fridge and it really bothered me I couldn't confirm the board bad 100%, but rather by eliminating all other possibilities. I wanted to know what went wrong with the board but I couldn't. I am going to learn more about circuit boards and electronics as it seems to be more of a problem I run into than dealing with having to wire a new mine. I see myself doing this much more than I see myself climbing a pole for repairs in the middle of winter.

I bought the brymen bm869s, at first I felt like I was cheaping out so I started to back out and then order the fluke 87v. As I was getting ready to order the fluke from amazon, I started to think about all the features the brymen offered.

In the end I overthought this way too much and knew I needed to just pick one and move on, and eventually thought to myself, I'm no professional electrician handling 600+v, nor would I ever dare handle that much power without the proper training and technique.

If the brymen craps out on me, no doubt I'll get fluke. I usually try to always buy usa made with lifetime warranty, but I have a feeling the brymen will last me long enough to get value out of it though.

Plus it's still has the extra added CATIV safety that is probably overkill for what I'll use it for anyways.

From my understanding you can use the min/max to get the touch hold function mentioned previously. I read about it somewhere else as well but forget where so I cant link it. As far as if it's a credible, stable reading due to the way it's done idk.

 

[BMack37]

The Brymen is a great meter and they come with FANTASTIC leads, better than Fluke. It is big though, they're like bricks...you'll still like it. I know an A/C guy that raves about his, I almost bought one but there are just some little issues that bug me about Brymens. I won't mention them because if I do you might get the grass is greener bug.

BTW, for additional probes. Definitely stick with silicone everything, stay away from PVC!
I haven't tried them because I use my meters out of bags and like my probes to fit in the holders in the case but Probemaster is very well liked. Not sure how well they'd hold up in the field but it doesn't sound like you're going to beat the **** out of the stuff every day anyway. https://probemaster.com/8000-series-standard/

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

The Brymen is a great meter and they come with FANTASTIC leads, better than Fluke. It is big though, they're like bricks...you'll still like it. I know an A/C guy that raves about his, I almost bought one but there are just some little issues that bug me about Brymens. I won't mention them because if I do you might get the grass is greener bug.

BTW, for additional probes. Definitely stick with silicone everything, stay away from PVC!
I haven't tried them because I use my meters out of bags and like my probes to fit in the holders in the case but Probemaster is very well liked. Not sure how well they'd hold up in the field but it doesn't sound like you're going to beat the **** out of the stuff every day anyway. https://probemaster.com/8000-series-standard/

Probably wont be beating on it everyday but am already starting to learn the basics of electronics, considering taking up a "short term" hobby for the experience and future reference.

I'm pretty excited about the brymen, and I know that there are a few quirks about it that are a put off. For instance everyone seems so bothered about the touch hold function, I will probably be more annoyed about the curved screen and the inability to turn off the auto-shut off backlight the most. Honestly, I still want the 87v and can see myself owning both once I'm more proficient.

I hope the leads I got are the good brymen ones, from my understand they have two different sets they ship out, ones superb and ones mediocre. I feel like leads are somewhat consumable items so I'll check out the probemasters when I'm looking for a new set.

I feel like I would probably have the grass is greener bug regardless of the choice I had made between the 2.

Glad to hear your HVAC buddy enjoys his, though I am surprised he would have chose that dmm for field work. I personally think if I had bought one for everyday field work I would have went with fluke due to the extra ruggedness of it. Especially if he is doing things like hvac repairs on roof tops.

I plan on using the meter in auto and around the house that might expose it to situations that will test its durability time to time, just not everyday

Meter left an airport in France tonight, unfortunately due to the weekend I wont recieve it until Monday. Only if I hadn't thought too long about it. Oh well.

 

[BMack37]

Probably wont be beating on it everyday but am already starting to learn the basics of electronics, considering taking up a "short term" hobby for the experience and future reference.

I'm pretty excited about the brymen, and I know that there are a few quirks about it that are a put off. For instance everyone seems so bothered about the touch hold function, I will probably be more annoyed about the curved screen and the inability to turn off the auto-shut off backlight the most. Honestly, I still want the 87v and can see myself owning both once I'm more proficient.

I hope the leads I got are the good brymen ones, from my understand they have two different sets they ship out, ones superb and ones mediocre. I feel like leads are somewhat consumable items so I'll check out the probemasters when I'm looking for a new set.

I feel like I would probably have the grass is greener bug regardless of the choice I had made between the 2.

Glad to hear your HVAC buddy enjoys his, though I am surprised he would have chose that dmm for field work. I personally think if I had bought one for everyday field work I would have went with fluke due to the extra ruggedness of it. Especially if he is doing things like hvac repairs on roof tops.

I plan on using the meter in auto and around the house that might expose it to situations that will test its durability time to time, just not everyday

Meter left an airport in France tonight, unfortunately due to the weekend I wont recieve it until Monday. Only if I hadn't thought too long about it. Oh well.

Yeah, I've told him but he loves it for the dual display when working on generators. I don't really have the need for it but it's cool. I actually don't have an issue with the touch hold, min max mostly works...but there are definitely times when touch hold is much preferred.

Here are the good Brymen leads. This seller is awesome, his Brother-in-law is the one that sold me the Brymen I have. I've bought stuff from him a few times to makes specialized accessories, it's all imported but high quality. There was a while when I was on a big accessory kick, made a ton of custom ones for audio.

I do not have an asociation with him other than being a customer. His brother-in-law used to run the store, it was going to close until he took it over.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-Silicone-Gold-Plated-Test-Leads-Probes-for-Multimeters-CAT-IV-1000V/171162377470?hash=item27da129cfe:g:uSQAAOxyTjNShpch