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Multiple Breakers Flipping

td_05

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Oct 20, 2020
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Hello-

I'm no electrician, I searched a bit to no avail. New home for us, since August, house built in 2017. One breaker box for entire house. We've found that we are flipping different breakers at different times with seemingly typical use / load. A couple contractors that have been by house for various projects / plans have mentioned that "You have the new breakers, they're no good." Spoke with an electrician briefly and he made it seem that the "old ones" are now going to be tough to source if I wanted to replace existing breakers.

I know there are plenty of unknowns with what I've provided but I'd appreciate any guidance / suggestions.

Thanks,
TD
 
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OP
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td_05

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I think I need one more post before I'm granted ability to post an image or a link.

Homeline box HOMC42UC Series 501

Variety of Square D breakers

Images to follow, hopefully...
 
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td_05

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Bigbandguy

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Just a guess here, but I expect the resident sparkies will know. Sounds like you have a panel full of the new ground fault breakers. If this is true and maybe some back stab connections in circuits down the line, those little jewels will trip if you breathe on them. Like I say, just a guess. I would start by checking some outlets and see if the wires are under the screws or back stabbed. If the latter, fix every one.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Just a guess here, but I expect the resident sparkies will know. Sounds like you have a panel full of the new ground fault breakers. If this is true and maybe some back stab connections in circuits down the line, those little jewels will trip if you breathe on them. Like I say, just a guess. I would start by checking some outlets and see if the wires are under the screws or back stabbed. If the latter, fix every one.

No not GFCIs, AFCIs.

GFCIs could gove 2 sh*ts about arcing connections...

AFCIs are the ones that have issues
 

wyliesdiesels

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OP- there are several threads on this group about bad AFCI breakers constantly tripping in new homes. I suggest you find those and read through them.
 

Ftrpilot

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My experience. I was a general contractor building residential homes for +40 years. I am not a licensed electrician. With that said I will tell you that some GFI protected circuits had particular problems. Generally the problems centered around refrigeration equipment. The Nat Electric Code calls for all 110v circuits be protected in "wet" areas which of course include kitchens. Refrigerator compressors had a nasty habit of tripping GFI's. We typically would replace the GFI in the refrigerator circuit the day after the final inspection to prevent the homeowner the grief of dealing with the problem.
 

Ftrpilot

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Follow-up.... When a breaker flips, got to the box immediately and hold your palm against the breaker surface to feel for heat. Breakers are nothing more than a thermostat for the amperage passing through it. If the breaker is not hot, you may simply have too many breakers in the box. I notice you have it stuffed pretty full. Another possibility is you maybe getting a sneak circuit through the neutral bar. Try killing the power via the disconnect and tighten every breaker/ground/ neutral connection /screw in the box including the ground wire/cable lug going into the soil.
Good luck.
 

nadogail

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Years ago, when I taught basic electrical wiring, I cautioned my students about putting refrigerators on GFCI protected circuits.

You may have some loose neutral connections.

Good Hunting. With luck you may find your problem quickly.
 

Norcal

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My experience. I was a general contractor building residential homes for +40 years. I am not a licensed electrician. With that said I will tell you that some GFI protected circuits had particular problems. Generally the problems centered around refrigeration equipment. The Nat Electric Code calls for all 110v circuits be protected in "wet" areas which of course include kitchens. Refrigerator compressors had a nasty habit of tripping GFI's. We typically would replace the GFI in the refrigerator circuit the day after the final inspection to prevent the homeowner the grief of dealing with the problem.

The NEC does not use "110" as code language. Like it or not the NEC has expanded GFCI, & AFCI requirements dramatically, with AFCI's being required almost everywhere in homes, and the 2020 NEC now requires electric ranges, clothes dryers, air conditioning units to have GFCI protection, with prev. codes 240V equipment rarely required GFCI's, although last time I looked only 9 States have adopted the 2020.
 
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Chucktin

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Isn't it odd that the panel, as pictured, has a breaker in every slot and they're all the same physical size? Usual practice ( I've not look at a new-built house) around us, in Florida, is 2 main doubles at the top for HVAC, water heater, etc, then 20 amps and 15 amps for circuits.

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Chucktin

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Huh! I zoomed in on the picture. That panel is installed upside down?

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Norcal

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Huh! I zoomed in on the picture. That panel is installed upside down?

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There is no such thing with a modern panel as "upside down", it's top feed, or bottom feed, and if power enters at the bottom, common sense dictates that the panel be turned to avoid excessive conductor length in the wiring gutter. Makes for a cleaner & easier job to make up the panel.
 

Chucktin

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You did not notice that I was asking a question?

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Chucktin

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In my limited experience - for instance the house we are living in now - whether the POCO service line is aerial or buried the low numbered breakers begin at the physical top (left) and and labeled in order L, R and down. I have never seen it any other way. If you have, great.

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infinkc

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Our new home has Arc fault breakers, same one as you have. we have had a ton of issues with them randomly tripping. Its just the nature of them, they ****! they are so sensitive. If you have a lot of devices that dont have a grounding plug they will trip more often, even they can get feedback from another circuit and trip a different breaker. On some of our circuits i replaced them with GFI breakers instead as they are less sensitive. that resolved most of our false trips. The Arc fault breakers also hate devices with motors. best of luck.

link to the gfi breakers that i changed some circuits to.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...le-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker-HOM120GFICP/100002959
 
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td_05

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Our new home has Arc fault breakers, same one as you have. we have had a ton of issues with them randomly tripping. Its just the nature of them, they ****! they are so sensitive. If you have a lot of devices that dont have a grounding plug they will trip more often, even they can get feedback from another circuit and trip a different breaker. On some of our circuits i replaced them with GFI breakers instead as they are less sensitive. that resolved most of our false trips. The Arc fault breakers also hate devices with motors. best of luck.

link to the gfi breakers that i changed some circuits to.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...le-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker-HOM120GFICP/100002959

Many thanks!
 

wyliesdiesels

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breaker on bottom right doesnt look like a sq d. if it isnt it should be changed out for a sq d homeline

My experience. I was a general contractor building residential homes for +40 years. I am not a licensed electrician. With that said I will tell you that some GFCI protected circuits had particular problems. Generally the problems centered around refrigeration equipment. The Nat Electric Code calls for all 110v circuits be protected in "wet" areas which of course include kitchens. Refrigerator compressors had a nasty habit of tripping GFI's. We typically would replace the GFCI in the refrigerator circuit the day after the final inspection to prevent the homeowner the grief of dealing with the problem.

If a refrigerator is tripping a GFCI it usually means the defrost bulb in the freezer is broken.

But if its the motor tripping the GFCI, then it means there is a problem with the fridge and it should be fixed. and by fixed, it doesn't mean removing the GFCI protection that could be protecting someone.... removing the GFCI is the wrong way to fix this problem and reeks of handyman trunk slammer hack work.

Follow-up.... When a breaker flips, got to the box immediately and hold your palm against the breaker surface to feel for heat. Breakers are nothing more than a thermostat for the amperage passing through it. If the breaker is not hot, you may simply have too many breakers in the box. I notice you have it stuffed pretty full. Another possibility is you maybe getting a sneak circuit through the neutral bar. Try killing the power via the disconnect and tighten every breaker/ground/ neutral connection /screw in the box including the ground wire/cable lug going into the soil.
Good luck.

This makes no logical sense. theres millions of breaker panels in the world with every space full and yet breakers dont trip due to heat. this is because the panels and breakers are designed to be installed like this. In order for the thermal element to trip in the breaker, it would need to have enough current heating it up, not ancillary heat build up in the circuit breaker case.

sneak circuit through the neutral bar? what the hell is that supposed to mean? BTW a loose neutral connection in the panel would not cause individual breakers to trip.

Also the GEC going to the grounding electrodes has absolutely nothing to do with breakers tripping. you clearly don't know what youre talking about.

Years ago, when I taught basic electrical wiring, I cautioned my students about putting refrigerators on GFCI protected circuits.

You may have some loose neutral connections.

Good Hunting. With luck you may find your problem quickly.

a loose neutral connection would not cause a GFCI to trip. It may cause an AFCI to trip IF it is on the load side of the AFCI and it is arcing.

Isn't it odd that the panel, as pictured, has a breaker in every slot and they're all the same physical size? Usual practice ( I've not look at a new-built house) around us, in Florida, is 2 main doubles at the top for HVAC, water heater, etc, then 20 amps and 15 amps for circuits.

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not odd at all and a double pole branch circuit breaker is NOT a main.
 

TRWham

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Off the top of my head, yes I think it is usually the purple ones that are flipping

So those are dual function AFCI/GFCI breakers and it could be either function that is tripping. You'll need to experiment to track down what is causing the trips and just because these are AFCIs do not assume these are "nuisance" trips and there is no real problem. AFCIs can be difficult but not every trip is false.
 
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