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muriatic acid mix ratio

judgethis

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Im finally about ready to paint my garage floor and was wondering about the mix ratio. Is the ratio on the label good enough? The concrete is a new pour about 8 month old. No tires have been on it with the exception of the kids indoor roller skates and the scaffolding.

Whats the best way to aply it. Mix it, pour on floor and scrub. Should I let it sit for a few minutes then scrub?

How about an acid neutralizer?
 
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nate379

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I didn't dilute it and it's still not strong enough.

I have done 2 acid washes and it's still not quite rough enough. Going to do a 3rd tomorrow and let it sit for a couple hrs.

Use ammonia afterwards.

I recomend using a gas mask or something. I just used mine from work haha (Air Force)
 

AlphaGarage

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Muriatic acid is sold in varying dilutions, anywhere from 10% to the mid- 30%, so it's not too surprising that differing dilutions are needed.

Depending on your concrete mix it may not be too responsive to muriatic acid. The acid acts to dissolve the calcium in the concrete. Sometimes ingredients or application techniques result in less calcium being available.

Using a 30% acid at full strength should have had some noticeable results. And yes - don't even think of using it near that strength without a really good gas mask (not one for just particulate matter) and even then good ventilation.

Muriatic acid is probably the strongest and most dangerous chemical available in the hardware store, read and follow all package directions!
 

nate379

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I'm not sure what mix the acid I'm using is. I bought it was Lowe's. Was around $7 per gallon.

Yeah the mask I used is a no joke gas mask that I would use if we were bombed with a nerve, blood or blister agent... Seran, V X, etc. I started applying with no mask and it didn't take maybe 30 secs before I knew it was going to kill my lungs... or worse!



Alpha garage. Is there any benefit for leaving the acid on the floor longer?

Will I see better results if I leave it for 2-3hrs vs 15mins? After applying it fumes and fizzes but after a couple mins it turns yellow and no more fizzing.
 

nate379

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The stuff I was using doesn't really dry out but turns to a paste. I poured water on the floor then scrubbed it and then squeegee it out.
 

AlphaGarage

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There' no real payoff in letting it sit too long - in fact it could lead to problems.

I don't know what the "half life" is, but in the real world it seem to do 90% of its thing in the first 15 minutes or so.

Here are two problems that may occur if it's left on too long... As mentioned it works by acting on the calcium and a few other components in concrete, most of these dissolved elements are held in suspension in the acid fluid, but if the acid dries out they're deposited right back onto the concrete, where much of it will re-adhere. It looks like a dusty powder, some can be easily vacuumed or rinsed off, but much won't, it will continue to stick, but not that well. So you epoxy over it, and the epoxy is really sticking to the dust, not the substrate. When the dust eventually seperates from the substrate, the epoxy can fail with it.

Second potential problem... Left to sit some of it will seep and penetrate down into the concrete, and although it seems to weaken pretty quickly, it still has some bite. The surface is eventually rinsed and coated, but encapsulated is a bit of active muriatic acid. The rains come and hydrostatic presuure force some of the acid back to the surface where it's stopped by the backside of the primer coat. There it works on the concrete again, this time dissolving some of the material that the epoxy has adhered to, potentially leading to the coating lifting from the concrete.

So my advice is to let it work for about 30 minutes max, then fully and completely neutralize and power wash.
 

bosskong

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So my advice is to let it work for about 30 minutes max, then fully and completely neutralize and power wash.
Does completely neutralize mean to power wash with water or should ammonia be used?

Also, anyone have tips on getting the correct kind of gas mask? I'm thinking I'll hit up the Army-Navy store and see what I can find.
 
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nate379

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They have paint masks at Lowe's for around $25, I bet that would work just as well.

The mask I have is something like $300 I believe. (right in line with $500 hammers and $700 toilet seats)

I have not been pressure washing my slab. I didn't want to get teh walls all wet (drywall is only about 1/2" off the slab). I just used a bucket and poured water on the floor. About 10-15 gals or so, scrubbed it and squwegee it.
 

TRC51

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Does completely neutralize mean to power wash with water or should ammonia be used?

I read somewhere that baking soda and water work well as a neutralizer. I think it was on a web page for acid staining concrete.
 

Jaguar Fan

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baking soda will neutralize acid, but you don't need to do this. The acid has already been neutralized by chemically reacting with the concrete floor.

Wear irrigation boots, use a stiff bristle brush on a broom handle, agitate a lot, it will be completely obvious that the acid has been neutralized in a few minutes at most because there will be no more bubbling/reacting.
 

nate379

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Baking Soda works as well, but it's just another mess to clean up. Ammonia is a cleaning product so you end up doing an a "cleaning" wash in the process of neutralizing.

Alpha Garage suggested using the ammonia to make sure all the acid is neutralized. It costs about $4 for a gallon... so IMO it's a no brainer on that one.
 

wildcat12

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Oh My God !! 5 to 1 should be plenty good enough !! If it is oily then it you should degrease it first, and baking soda with fresh water is good to rinse with, make sure you flush rinse it good !
 

nate379

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All depends on the concrete. I mixed it 3 qts water to 1 quart acid the first 2 washes and I wasted my time and materials. I had to do 3 full strength washes to get the slab rough enough to equal 80-100 grit sandpaper.
 

dodgepolara500

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What do you do to prevent the water and acid wash from etching the concrete in your driveway? If I wash the garage, I am certain some of it will end up in the driveway which I dont want to be etched. Do you put some sort of dam in the garage/driveway edge?
 

AlphaGarage

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What do you do to prevent the water and acid wash from etching the concrete in your driveway?

That's usually not a problem. Grab a flower sprinkling plastic can, fill it with water, and go wet the garage floor where it borders the driveway. Odds are you can control the water dispersion and wet the floor without getting much, if any, water on the driveway.

When you're actually using the acid it will be the same, and you just need to wait till it plays out and neutralize before rinsing.
 
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