My 2 year experience with a polyaspartic floor

[LegacyIndustrial]

I would not recommend it for a floor coating. After a short time you would regret ever spending the time, dollars, and effort.

The product was originally developed for coating the inside of tanks to store nasty solvents and chemicals. For that purpose it would be an excellent application but when someone decided to market it as a fast cure floor coating it just has not proven itself in my opinion.

JP

JP:

It is our leading coating right now. Our customers tell us it's the "clearest clear" they have ever used and you can't beat the dry time. When time is of the essence or temps are low, it's your best friend.

 

[-JP]

JP:

It is our leading coating right now. Our customers tell us it's the "clearest clear" they have ever used and you can't beat the dry time. When time is of the essence or temps are low, it's your best friend.

While every company selling products have a "Leading" or best seller, that has nothing to do with level of quality. I am sure Harbor Freight has a best selling product also but it is still a cheap tool that will fail long before a quality tool is expected to expire.

As far as the clear coat being clear, yes it is very clear. The cure time is fast but that can be a good or bad thing based upon each application or conditions of the user.

None of this has anything to do with the intent of this thread as it is to identify the long term use and performance of the product. Not the application.

JP

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

While every company selling products have a "Leading" or best seller, that has nothing to do with level of quality. I am sure Harbor Freight has a best selling product also but it is still a cheap tool that will fail long before a quality tool is expected to expire.

As far as the clear coat being clear, yes it is very clear. The cure time is fast but that can be a good or bad thing based upon each application or conditions of the user.

None of this has anything to do with the intent of this thread as it is to identify the long term use and performance of the product. Not the application.

JP

JP:

For clarification purposes, it is the most re-ordered product we have right now. That means a customer purchased it 2x or more.

Lastly, it is our most expensive coating per gallon.

 

[Cruzin90]

Whats the difference between polyaspartic and polyurea??

A polyaspartic is: An aliphatic polyisocyanate is combined with a polyaspartic ester. A more typical polyurea is an aromatic polyurea which is a combination of an isocyanate and a polyol resin. A polyaspartic is a type of polyurea.

Note: "Aliphatic" means closed hydrocarbon chains which makes it not sensitive to UV light which makes it fade resistant. The opposite is "aromatic" which is open changed hydrocarbons which is sensitive to UV light and subject to fading.

The chemical reation is different. A polyaspartic needs a hydrogen atom from water in the air (hence "moisture cure") in order for the isocyanate to harden. That can take about 15 minutes to an hour depending on the humidity. An aromatic is not moisture cure and the chemical reaction can take as little as about 4 seconds once combined.

I've played with both. An aromatic polyurea (AP) is nothing like a polyaspartic. The AP is WAY stronger, it's not even close. AP products can be topcoated with an aliphatic to prevent fading. I'm not saying a polyaspartic is a bad product, because it's not, it's a good product, but very different from an aromatic polyurea.

Here's a aromatic polyurea that can be poured and is self-leveling.

Pouring out some red.

Top row, center sample: An aromatic polyurea that is sprayed using heat and high pressure through special equipment.

 

[J_T_P]

JP how thick did you apply the polyaspartic topcoat?

 

[-JP]

JP how thick did you apply the polyaspartic topcoat?

Just like the manufacturer said the coverage should be. Came out exactly as measured and planned. Even the second coat of clear came out with the same coverage they specified.

JP

 

[Cruzin90]

I thought I would chime in on a few things.

Typically, a polyaspartic floor thickness goes as follows. Base coat 3 mils, tak coat 2 mils, topcoat 6 mils (after chips).

You can eliminate roller marks with the proper technique. After you roll on the product, back rolling and then rolling in one direction all the way across the floor without stopping will do the trick.

Generally, a polyaspartic is more durable than an epoxy. That's why it's recommended that a urethane topcoat be applied to epoxy floors. That isn't to say that ALL polyaspartics are more durable than ALL epoxies. You need to do your homework to find a quality products and choose the one that fits your needs and budget.

 

[-JP]

I thought I would chime in on a few things.

Typically, a polyaspartic floor thickness goes as follows. Base coat 3 mils, tak coat 2 mils, topcoat 6 mils (after chips).

You can eliminate roller marks with the proper technique. After you roll on the product, back rolling and then rolling in one direction all the way across the floor without stopping will do the trick.

Generally, a polyaspartic is more durable than an epoxy. That's why it's recommended that a urethane topcoat be applied to epoxy floors. That isn't to say that ALL polyaspartics are more durable than ALL epoxies. You need to do your homework to find a quality products and choose the one that fits your needs and budget.

Perhaps your offering general information but I did not have problems with the roller marks due to poor technique rather the problem was with the shark bite added to the clear coat caused the roller marks to show. This was evident by the results of the second clear coat without the shark bite.

As far as polyaspartic being more durable than epoxy, that is the claim many were saying and one of the factors in my choice to try it. Sadly, this claim is not true in my opinion. I believe the high build epoxy product is more durable than the polyaspartic.

I also thought the polyaspartic from Citadel/Rock-Solid was a quality product. My needs were UV resistant, durable, solvent resistant, and custom color. Budget was not an issue.

JP

 

[Cruzin90]

I looked at Citadel's website and I see that they have lots of products including several polyaspartic products. I'm not sure which product(s) you used.

Think of epoxies and polyaspartics like buying tires. You walk into a tire store and all the tires look the same and they are all made of rubber. However, there are different tire compounds and some tires are very soft for performance and some tires are very hard for off-road. Some tires are high quality and some are not.

I've never used Citadel's products, but I don't think it would be a correct conclusion to say that all polyaspartics are the same and likewise with epoxies. In general though, I think you will find a consensus that polyaspartics are more durable than epoxies. Many epoxy companies recommend a urethane topcoat because a urethane is more durable. (A polyaspartic is a type of urethane.)

I think it's possible that your floor is too thin. Perhaps they sent you the same volume for a chip floor. That's probably not enough chemical for a no-chip floor.

What the heck is "shark bite"?

 

[AlphaGarage]

Probably meant to write "Shark Grip" - which is a polymer grit additive to help reduce slip & fall potential.

 

[PaulR]

Great, great, great info here from Cruzin 90, thank you. What you said clarifies a lot of things, at least for me. Can you do my floor when the time comes?

Cruzin 90 has my vote for forum boss!

 

[Cruzin90]

Probably meant to write "Shark Grip" - which is a polymer grit additive to help reduce slip & fall potential.

OK, got it, this stuff:

 

[-JP]

Probably meant to write "Shark Grip" - which is a polymer grit additive to help reduce slip & fall potential.

Actually it was Shark Bite. That is what was on the label from Sherwin Williams back when I did my first floor coating. At some later time, Sherwin Williams started selling the H&C product line and they now label it as Shark Grip. Probably the same stuff with a different label.

Cruzin90,

I am sure your right in that there are many variations on the polyaspartic being sold today. At the time I made my purchase, Citadel/Rock Solid only had two variations. One for the DIY under the Rock Solid label and their commercial product sold under their Citadel brand.
I purchased the Citadel commercial product. It was a custom color and I spent hours discussing the particulars of my application. Citadel knew I was applying a solid custom color with only a clear coat, no chips. So the thickness of the application was spot on with their guidelines and the quantity shipped.

You asked what shark bite is...makes me think you have not read this thread very well. Go back a page and there is an explanation along with a picture.

JP

 

[Cruzin90]

Here's a formula you can use to figure volume, thickness, etc.:

square feet x mils / 1604 = gallons

For a polyaspartic floor with no chips, I think you should have at least 15 mils.


I found the following on another forum, sort of interesting, posted 1-20-11:

First, you must keep in mind that Citadel's single component is a polyurea ... it is NOT a POLYASPARTIC Alipathic Polyurea (PAP).

A single component polyurea is actually nothing more than a modified single component aliphatic urethane.

Citadel's single component polyurea can not be applied if temperature is less than 40+ F (they recommend 65-80); the same is true of single component aliphatic urethane's that have been around for decades... polyaspartic aliphatic polyurea's/PAP's can be applied in temperatures of -30F (minus 30).

Two component PAP's react with each other when blended and are self priming (wet out/penetrate into substrate, locking them in) ... Citadel's single component polyurea must be mixed prior to and during to keep the chemical components suspended in order to achieve uniform results and requires a primer.

I'm really a little shocked that they have copied many of the physical properties (tech data/specifications that are results of ASTM tests) of PAP manufactuer verbatim (word for word) that have been published for over 7 years ... 2 different products (one being a single component polyurea/modified aliphatic urethane that has just recently been offered by Citadel; the the other being a PAP, by different manufacturers) CAN'T be exactly the same (this defies logic common sense).

Having applied single component aliphatic urethanes for 30+ years in the commercial/industrial protective coatings field; making the change to PAP's about 7-8 years ago; IMO it would be going backwards in time and technological advances to revisit the past in the form of single component urethanes (or thier first cousin/relative being a single component polyurea).

I recommend that you don't tunnel in on price per gallon different between a single component polyurea and PAP's either ... as you know, you get what you pay for when it comes to longevity/performance and proven proformance that spans years ... just as cheap/cut rate tailight contractors versus the value associated with professional/experienced ones.

Lindy A.

 

[kywildcat]

You said a lot......but I still dont know what it was you said!!

 

[-JP]

You said a lot......but I still dont know what it was you said!!

Actually, Lindy A. said a lot, not Cruzin90.

A copy of a post from some other website from an individual who appears to have some good knowledge on this product as well as some insight and questions concerning the Citadel/Rock Solid company.

JP

 

[mackdx]

FWIW

I have recently coated 1/2 my garage (last 1/2 this weekend) with the Rock Solid single component product with light chips and their clear coat. I had to swap a track system from one my company's Yamaha Rhinos to another last weekend. Using a steel wheeled floor jack to lift the Rhinos up and dropping tools all weekend didn't leave any dings or scratches on the floor. So far, it seems to be holding up very well.

 

[kywildcat]

FWIW

I have recently coated 1/2 my garage (last 1/2 this weekend) with the Rock Solid single component product with light chips and their clear coat. I had to swap a track system from one my company's Yamaha Rhinos to another last weekend. Using a steel wheeled floor jack to lift the Rhinos up and dropping tools all weekend didn't leave any dings or scratches on the floor. So far, it seems to be holding up very well.

Is there anyway to tell the thickness of the Rock Solid that you applied. Is the clear coat about the same thickness. Im just waiting for some decent weather so I can get mine going.
I have thought about doing the acid etch this weekend, but Im going to wait until I can do the whole thing at once. I figured if I etched now, and waited, I would have to do the cleaning all over again.

 

[mackdx]

Is there anyway to tell the thickness of the Rock Solid that you applied. Is the clear coat about the same thickness.

No way to tell without chiseling it up....

but Im going to wait until I can do the whole thing at once

Good idea. Cleaning is the hardest part of the process. One other thing to keep in mind.... while the base coat doesn't have much smell to it, the clear is pretty pungent.

 

[jwertanen]

I had a Polyaspartic floor installed by a local company. I live in the Minneapolis area and after the first winter I had an area bubble. They came out to repair the floor and said it was due to Mobil 1 oil althrough my two cars with Mobil 1 do not drip oil. This spring after the second winter i have large areas of the floor pealing up. I can simply use my finger nail and pull up sheets 6 to 8 inches in size. I believe it was an installation problem but am waiting for the Company to come out and look at it. I hope this does not turn out to be a very expensive mistake.

 

[Cruzin90]

Sounds like a surface prep problem. Did they at least grind the concrete before the applied the coating?

 

[jwertanen]

Sounds like a surface prep problem. Did they at least grind the concrete before the applied the coating?

Yes they did, but there seemed to be a lot of dust on the floor when they started laying it out. The owner of the company says it is hydrostatic water pressure? with out looking at it.

 

[Cruzin90]

Yes they did, but there seemed to be a lot of dust on the floor when they started laying it out. The owner of the company says it is hydrostatic water pressure? with out looking at it.

Technically, he should have checked the water before he started the job.

 

[av1]

As for it not holding up to impact, well I'm guessing you applied it via 3/8 nap roller, so your spread rate must be 250 to 300 sqft per gallon per coat.

So which roller would you have recommended?

 

[-JP]

Bump

 

[AlphaGarage]

Wolverine has a polyaspartic line, but we don't offer it DIY for the afore mentioned reason. But the fact is that most of our independent coating contractors don't apply them often either. They prefer our LiquaTile epoxy top coat with the EnduraShield clear coat. Smoother application and equal or superior durability.

They will use polyaspartic on projects where a quick return to service is essential.

 

[jordan369]

Sorry your floor didn't work out for you. It seems they may have changed their product and install since you put your floor down two years ago. The way you described your floor install is different than mine. My floor is really nice. I guess I will update in two years to compare.

Mike

 

[trackhead]

I realize this is an old thread, but I have a newbie question.

I have been researching polyurea high pressure applications that are used in the industrial world. Is anybody routinely using this method of application for residential garage floor installations?

Thanks.

 

[Cruzin90]

I spray high pressure polyurea. I would say that it's not necessarily routine for garages, but it definitely can be applied to garage floors (concrete).

By the way, it can be sprayed or poured.

 

[trackhead]

I spray high pressure polyurea. I would say that it's not necessarily routine for garages, but it definitely can be applied to garage floors (concrete).

By the way, it can be sprayed or poured.

Are the spray applications (high pressure) a better route, albeit more expensive?

Thanks for the insight.

 

[pauloman]

excellent thread on polyaspartic coatings - something rather new to me. Wonder how they compare to an epoxy base with an lpu topcoat. I might have to do some tests myself to find out!

 

[Cruzin90]

In general, I would say that it's going to be more expensive, but there are variables such as thickness and type of product.

The typical professional epoxy or polyaspartic floor will be about around 15 mils thick while a spray elastomer is going to be at least double that or up to whatever thickness you want.

There are various products to choose from: Aromatic or aliphatic, 100% polyurea, 100% polyurethane, or a polyurea/polyurethane hybrid. There are highly chemical resistant products as well as fire rated products.

A spray elastomer polyurea floor would be extremely durable.

I've used polyurea in many commercial/industrial applications.

 

[trackhead]

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Johnny Dogood]

In general, I would say that it's going to be more expensive, but there are variables such as thickness and type of product.

The typical professional epoxy or polyaspartic floor will be about around 15 mils thick while a spray elastomer is going to be at least double that or up to whatever thickness you want.

There are various products to choose from: Aromatic or aliphatic, 100% polyurea, 100% polyurethane, or a polyurea/polyurethane hybrid. There are highly chemical resistant products as well as fire rated products.

A spray elastomer polyurea floor would be extremely durable.

I've used polyurea in many commercial/industrial applications.

What would the texture end up like, would it spray on smooth, or, will it have an orange peel like texture?

 

[Johnny Dogood]

I would like to comment on the original post; I am not sure if this has already been mentioned, but, I ALWAYS recommend a medium in garage's that will get more than average use, adding a quartz or chip will not only hide the scratches, it does not scratch as easy because the floor has some texture to it. Instead of an object having full contact with the floor, the contact is broken up. Most people who say they do not want chips or quartz state that they "do not like all the colors", or, "it looks chaotic", my answer to that is, choose a solid color chip or quartz.

Polyaspartic application takes practice, mainly because of the extremely fast cure, I am truly impressed that you pulled it off with a simple phone conversation.

 

[Johnny Dogood]

Thanks DR, it was a lot of work but turned out great.

Here are a couple more pictures showing some of the process.
The first picture is what the color of the mix was from the plant. Several trucks with great consistency on the color.
The next picture shows what the slab looked like right after removing the stamps before hosing off any of the dry release.
The next picture shows the entire wood stamped section with the first coat of sealer applied.
And the last picture is after a second coat of sealer that evened out the shine.

JP

This came out GREAT! JP, did you stamp and stain this yourself?

 

[Cruzin90]

What would the texture end up like, would it spray on smooth, or, will it have an orange peel like texture?

There are a variety of products with a variety of gel times. The longer the gel time, the smother it gets. Some products are poured instead of sprayed and it looks like this:

 

[MongoTom]

Our garage polyaspartic floor is now a bit over 2 years old and I'll second the comments of the original post. We had it professionally applied, no chips, solid color and it looked fine although it wasn't smooth and showed all the imperfections in the concrete. The concrete was ground and prepped prior to install of the coating. The coating resists everything, it is true. As stated, it also chips. I dropped a socket (not the wrench, just a socket) from roughly 3' and it left a chip the size of a dime. Other chips have appeared for no obvious reason. At this point there are probably a dozen of them scattered around the floor. In most cases, a dime would cover them, but a few are a bit larger. I've been trying to get the installer back to touch them up for several months now, but he's been unresponsive. I've been thinking about picking up a small epoxy kit to do it myself, but I know the color won't match. I don't know if the epoxy and polyaspartic will get along together, but I'm running out of alternatives.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

It will stick as long as you scuff the poly very well.

Wipe off any dust with a solvent soaked rag, Prior to Coating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[noweare]

If the floor chips that easily I would suspect it is not bonded well. I have done a few experiments seeing how well polyaspartic bonds and the results are not good. The solvented epoxies bond much better.