HOTFR8
Banned
Correct, but at least the dealer is trying to help.
My “Class Act” Trailer's Structural Integrity Failure
- Thread starter OldCarGuy
- Start date
- Status
Correct, but at least the dealer is trying to help.
Class Act has yet to return calls from either JTI, my dealer, or me. And this past week I agreed to let JTI work things out with them. As of Friday, no positive word came from the manufacturer. I’m going to see what JTI has to say about my car hauler having an ATV/motorcycle ramp door. And make a plan of action...
I did a search of Nappanee Window. One of their claims to fame was manufacturing ramp doors for the RV industry. And hold a Us Patent # 7213860 that covers a composite cargo door/ramp.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=fO...KixcUJ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3
Nappanee Window changed their name to Terra group just after they built my ramp door. And have since shut down their operation September 2008. I’m going to work on finding the ex-employee’s to see what they have to say about the ramp door and their relationship with Class Act.
http://www.rvbusiness.com/2008/09/terra-group-closing-3-plants/
I do not fault my dealer. He has gone out of his way to correct the problems I’ve ben having with trailer. And has always been in touch with me. It’ll be a joint effort to get Class Act to replace the door.
After all that I’ve gone through with this trailer. And living with several other major manufacturing mistakes. I’m getting to the point of making them give me my money back or replace the whole trailer with new one. Not just replacing the door. And after discovering that the ramp door was intended for ATV’s and motorcycles yesterday..
I’m totally pissed off! And put a retainer on my lawyer that I’ve used for the past 30 years..
"Terra Group, an innovative door manufacturer that received Indiana state recognition for its recycling program..."
It would appear that your rear door may be made up of recycled aluminum cans.
From what I discovered about this ramp door. I think the door manufacturer got cash for the aluminum at another recycling facility rather than putting it into my ramp door...
Having a major car show this upcoming weekend. I needed to do some kind of temporary repairs to my Class Act Car hauler. At least get the ramp door secured and not held shut using bungee cords! And make some makeshift way of driving a car into the trailer.
Let's see what it'll take to straighten the door. I started by removing all the door's hardware. And placing the door on four jack stands. With wood to protect the surfaces. Rather than bringing out several 12' long 6” wide flange I-Beams that I had laying around. Those things are heavy. I started with doubling up tow 4” by 1/4” angle irons to each side, with a short piece of 2”x12” at each end. Using four large C-Clamps in the center as shown with a 2”x10” across the front side.
There is a lot of mechanical advantage to screws. But I couldn't believe how little force was needed to bend the door. I could easily turn the clamps, one in each hand, with little effort. The first time around, I took the door just past being straight. But the door sprung back to its' original bow. Then I tightened it down to over-bend it the full 1 1/2”. A straight edge on the angle iron determined that it bowed only 1/32" to the door's 1 1/2". When releasing the clamps, the door straightened within 1/4”. Good enough to get the door closed.
If you looked at the patent drawings. Three stiffening I-Beams run lengthwise in the door to add strength. But when I over-bent the door, the force was only placed at the two edges. Either there were no strengthening beams or they are insignificant in value. The center section followed the two edges. And no marks ever appeared on the surface.
This door was destined to failure. And may have been one of the reasons that Nappenee Windows is no longer in business. The door is made with a foam core sandwiched between two pieces of 1/ 4” plywood. With little or no reinforcements. Normal tire traffic from my cars driven over the ramp door eventually weakened the overall door's integrity. Resulting in a catastrophic structural failure.
I made two ramps from two eight foot long 2”x10” and fastened a hardwood cleat using three carriage bolts. I counter-bored the holes to make the washer and nut flush. The cleat rests in the recess between the door and tailer's deck. And holds the ramps in place when I drive a car in and out of the trailer.
With the ramps in place...
And adding blocking to the underside if the door using some 6''x6” and 4”x6” and a wedge piece under a 2”x10” across the door. Driving a car onto the ramp door and into the trailer.
Then closed the ramp door, and we're good to go! I'm not about to do this each time I take a car in and out of the trailer. I'll see to it that Class Act is at least going to replace the door. Or for that matter give me a brand new trailer. Better yet I'll give them their faulty trailer back and they can refund my entire investment. And I'll purchase a proven solid and time-tested Haulmark Trailer.
Let's see what it'll take to straighten the door. I started by removing all the door's hardware. And placing the door on four jack stands. With wood to protect the surfaces. Rather than bringing out several 12' long 6” wide flange I-Beams that I had laying around. Those things are heavy. I started with doubling up tow 4” by 1/4” angle irons to each side, with a short piece of 2”x12” at each end. Using four large C-Clamps in the center as shown with a 2”x10” across the front side.
There is a lot of mechanical advantage to screws. But I couldn't believe how little force was needed to bend the door. I could easily turn the clamps, one in each hand, with little effort. The first time around, I took the door just past being straight. But the door sprung back to its' original bow. Then I tightened it down to over-bend it the full 1 1/2”. A straight edge on the angle iron determined that it bowed only 1/32" to the door's 1 1/2". When releasing the clamps, the door straightened within 1/4”. Good enough to get the door closed.
If you looked at the patent drawings. Three stiffening I-Beams run lengthwise in the door to add strength. But when I over-bent the door, the force was only placed at the two edges. Either there were no strengthening beams or they are insignificant in value. The center section followed the two edges. And no marks ever appeared on the surface.
This door was destined to failure. And may have been one of the reasons that Nappenee Windows is no longer in business. The door is made with a foam core sandwiched between two pieces of 1/ 4” plywood. With little or no reinforcements. Normal tire traffic from my cars driven over the ramp door eventually weakened the overall door's integrity. Resulting in a catastrophic structural failure.
I made two ramps from two eight foot long 2”x10” and fastened a hardwood cleat using three carriage bolts. I counter-bored the holes to make the washer and nut flush. The cleat rests in the recess between the door and tailer's deck. And holds the ramps in place when I drive a car in and out of the trailer.
With the ramps in place...
And adding blocking to the underside if the door using some 6''x6” and 4”x6” and a wedge piece under a 2”x10” across the door. Driving a car onto the ramp door and into the trailer.
Then closed the ramp door, and we're good to go! I'm not about to do this each time I take a car in and out of the trailer. I'll see to it that Class Act is at least going to replace the door. Or for that matter give me a brand new trailer. Better yet I'll give them their faulty trailer back and they can refund my entire investment. And I'll purchase a proven solid and time-tested Haulmark Trailer.
ahaidet
Well-known member
OCG sorry that you don't seem to be getting the same kind of customer service you gave me on the drill press deal. If they did you would have had your trailer back in better than new shape in 2 days and got a tour of their facility thrown in...
To whomever from Class Act maybe reading this:
I know that whenever I make a purchase of any value I always check online for both professional and consumer reviews of products. A purchase this large for me would warrant a lot of research online to determine where my dollars are more wisely spent. Manufacturing mis-productions happen... but customer service is not an accident. You can be sure that if I read a thread online similar to this one that I would quickly remove that company from my shopping list and move on. As the details of this continue to be uncovered this looks to be more than a simple manufacturing mis-production. Either this was a deceptive attempt to sell a product with inferior parts or an exhibition of complete incompetence by your sales and engineering staff. In either event this is terrifying coming from a company that sells products intended for use on public highways. What other items have you sold to consumers with under-engineered or mis-used parts that can fail under conditions that were sold to them under the description of “normal” use? I for one will not be purchasing any Class Act products after hearing how you treat your customers both before and after the sale. This seems like another classic example of “over sell… under deliver.” No company that practices that motto ever lasts long in a world where bad press spreads in milliseconds. I hope for the best possible resolution to this for OCG’s sake.
To whomever from Class Act maybe reading this:
I know that whenever I make a purchase of any value I always check online for both professional and consumer reviews of products. A purchase this large for me would warrant a lot of research online to determine where my dollars are more wisely spent. Manufacturing mis-productions happen... but customer service is not an accident. You can be sure that if I read a thread online similar to this one that I would quickly remove that company from my shopping list and move on. As the details of this continue to be uncovered this looks to be more than a simple manufacturing mis-production. Either this was a deceptive attempt to sell a product with inferior parts or an exhibition of complete incompetence by your sales and engineering staff. In either event this is terrifying coming from a company that sells products intended for use on public highways. What other items have you sold to consumers with under-engineered or mis-used parts that can fail under conditions that were sold to them under the description of “normal” use? I for one will not be purchasing any Class Act products after hearing how you treat your customers both before and after the sale. This seems like another classic example of “over sell… under deliver.” No company that practices that motto ever lasts long in a world where bad press spreads in milliseconds. I hope for the best possible resolution to this for OCG’s sake.
Aren't ATC trailers built in Nappenee? Odd. What is it with Indiana and trailer manufacturers?
Art From De Leon
Well-known member
Make sure you let the other exhibitors at the carshow know about your problems. Might make a sign, or banner, saying "Ask Me About My Class Act Trailer".
Every one reading this, should post a link at every other discussion board they are members of.
Every one reading this, should post a link at every other discussion board they are members of.
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PAToyota
Well-known member
I am surprised that during your initial investigations that Class Act was even willing to sell you this trailer as you were up front about what you were loading into it. If they knew their door had that ATV warning sticker on it how could they have even sold this to you in the first place?
boiler7904
Well-known member
For what it's worth, Haulmark Trailers are based in Indiana too. The Elkhart / South Bend area is the RV and trailer capital of America.
You’re no more surprised that I. It had to be a major oversight or just incompetence in communications within Class Act and to Nappanee Window, who actually made the ramp door. I cannot imagine putting a sticker indicating that the ramp door was designed for ATV’s and motorcycles. Then installing it on my custom manufactured car hauler that was ordered to haul my cars....
I placed an order today for three large signs that’ll be ready for pickup Friday. Just in time for the upcoming 32 annual Ault Park Concours d'Elegance in Cincinnati Ohio. Watch for a 65 foot long billboard running down I-71... Honk,, and I’ll return with blast from my air horns... You’ll know that it’s the OldCarGuy..
Words well put, rightfully applied, and most graciously written!
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I was looking for an enclosed trailer last year. I did not see one from class act and am glad I didn't. Reading your horror story about the total lack of customer service is a warning NOT TO BUY A CLASS ACT PRODUCT. In my hobby people are always looking at enclosed trailers. Armed with evidence like this will save them a lot of grief from a lousy company such as class act. Thank you old car guy for the heads up.
walt
walt
boiler7904
Well-known member
Can't wait to see the signs you're putting on the trailer
1SlowFormula
Well-known member
me either...
OCG, please post pics when you get the signs, and I hope things work out in the long run...
Oh yeah, since you straightened the door, you may want to take copies of all these pics with you to the events so people can see what you are refering too with your sign...
Jaguar Fan
Well-known member
As you probably know, most patents are not worth the paper they are written on. There is no requirement that an "invention" be useful to get a patent on it; no requirement that you can build it, that it makes economic sense, engineering sense, business sense or anything else.
Here is one of my favorite patents to illustrate the point: a patent on a "comb over" to conceal male pattern baldness.
and
and of course you need the illustrations ...
While comb overs have nothing to do with the thread, I just wanted to point out to everyone that possessing a patent covering a product doesn't indicate the product itself is worth a damn.
"Terra Group, an innovative door manufacturer that received Indiana state recognition for its recycling program..."
It would appear that your rear door may be made up of recycled aluminum cans.
I found the following blurb about how Nappanee Window reclaimed material to manufacture doors. One can only wonder the traceability of raw material and meeting consistent quality standards.
Nappanee Window takes a significant portion of the material that was previously hauled away to landfills and creates new doors from the recycled materials, and then sells the doors back to their customers at a significantly discounted price. Nappanee Window has partnerships with 18 manufacturing plants to reuse rout-outs, which accounts for over 27% of their monthly sales. Through the rout out program, 24.5 tons of waste material -including - EPS foam, wood, plastic, fiberglass, and fiberglass resins ? are diverted from landfill each month, resulting in large cost savings for participating customers.
I'm picking the signs up tomorrow morning. And will be putting them on the trailer in the evening. If I have time I'll post pictures for our members.
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Re: My ?Class Act? Trailer's Structural Integrity Failure
This is a long thread, and maybe I missed it being mentioned, but perhaps CA has a door that meets your needs capacity wise and would supply it to you at no cost vs. the hassle of a legal battle? I know they said they would sell you one for $1k, but I think it was the same thing you have. Best of luck.
Dave
________
Yamaha y125z specifications
This is a long thread, and maybe I missed it being mentioned, but perhaps CA has a door that meets your needs capacity wise and would supply it to you at no cost vs. the hassle of a legal battle? I know they said they would sell you one for $1k, but I think it was the same thing you have. Best of luck.
Dave
________
Yamaha y125z specifications
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rwhite692
Well-known member
Sorry to be throwing a wet blanket on this lynch mob, but....
4,500 pound 1914 Cadillac?
6,000 pound 1930 Packard?
on THAT door???
I think any person would have to be pretty ignorant, to think that a door constructed like that, could even begin to handle those kind of loads.
That is the typical "toy hauler" type of aluminum framed, glass-over-plywood door used for loading motorcycles and ATVs...perfectly suitable for THAT purpose and it is even labeled as such. A light race car in the 3000 pound range, would probably be about the practical limit, for a door like that.
The dealer clearly did not provide you with a product that met your stated needs. BUT it is still YOUR responsibility to use the product within the limits of it's capability and to use common sense. IMHO, one look at the trailer when you picked it up, should have told the dealer, and you, that this trailer was not set up to do what you need.
I'm not surprised that the trailer manufacturer is only offering to replace the door for $1K.
Even though the trailer may have a 7K pound total capacity, drop-down loading doors typically don't have anywhere near this capacity. Keep in mind that most race trailers get outfitted with benches/tools/generator/parts/"stuff"/etc, and this is where additional weight capacity is needed, aside from the car in the trailer.
What you need, given the 4500 to 6000 pound weight of the vehicles that you intend to load, is a swing-out split door configuration, (or a lift-up door) and a pair of solidly constructed stowable loading ramps.
As someone else previously stated, you also need to ensure that the floor of the trailer is constructed to bear these kind of loads (as in, 6000 pounds /four tire contact patches).
This is a clear case of a total mismatch between product and application.
-Flame suit on.
4,500 pound 1914 Cadillac?
6,000 pound 1930 Packard?
on THAT door???
I think any person would have to be pretty ignorant, to think that a door constructed like that, could even begin to handle those kind of loads.
That is the typical "toy hauler" type of aluminum framed, glass-over-plywood door used for loading motorcycles and ATVs...perfectly suitable for THAT purpose and it is even labeled as such. A light race car in the 3000 pound range, would probably be about the practical limit, for a door like that.
The dealer clearly did not provide you with a product that met your stated needs. BUT it is still YOUR responsibility to use the product within the limits of it's capability and to use common sense. IMHO, one look at the trailer when you picked it up, should have told the dealer, and you, that this trailer was not set up to do what you need.
I'm not surprised that the trailer manufacturer is only offering to replace the door for $1K.
Even though the trailer may have a 7K pound total capacity, drop-down loading doors typically don't have anywhere near this capacity. Keep in mind that most race trailers get outfitted with benches/tools/generator/parts/"stuff"/etc, and this is where additional weight capacity is needed, aside from the car in the trailer.
What you need, given the 4500 to 6000 pound weight of the vehicles that you intend to load, is a swing-out split door configuration, (or a lift-up door) and a pair of solidly constructed stowable loading ramps.
As someone else previously stated, you also need to ensure that the floor of the trailer is constructed to bear these kind of loads (as in, 6000 pounds /four tire contact patches).
This is a clear case of a total mismatch between product and application.
-Flame suit on.
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Junkman
Well-known member
rwhite692
Well-known member
LOL...Sounds like you speak from experience! 
As of Yesterday, my dealer has not been able to get Class Act to move off of dead center. The President of Class Act received a registered letter from me yesterday. Hopefully he’ll see to it to replace the faulty ramp door.
The dealer as well as Class Act knew exactly my requirements. I ordered a 8'6" wide by 22' long Flat Front CAR Hauler. To haul cars not ATV’s and Motor Cycles. But I received and paid for a car hauler with a door designed and built only for ATV’s and Motor Cycles.
All my past Haulmark trailers came with ramp doors designed and built with more than enough strength to handle all my vehicles. And never failed.
Read this part of this thread. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=502846&postcount=95
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All the signs are on the Car Hauler now!
I called in a favor from a gentleman that I’ve known for over 40 years. He made up the signs and dropped them off first thing this morning. And I attached them on the car hauler this afternoon,, between the drizzle. No need to worry, the signs are designed for the inclement weather. And will hold up in the rain.
I centered the ones on the sides over the axles. So it’ll be more noticeable when the film crews are taking pictures of me unloading my show car.
Straight on view from the side...
This is what you’ll be looking at when you’re behind my rig...
I called in a favor from a gentleman that I’ve known for over 40 years. He made up the signs and dropped them off first thing this morning. And I attached them on the car hauler this afternoon,, between the drizzle. No need to worry, the signs are designed for the inclement weather. And will hold up in the rain.
I centered the ones on the sides over the axles. So it’ll be more noticeable when the film crews are taking pictures of me unloading my show car.
Straight on view from the side...
This is what you’ll be looking at when you’re behind my rig...
Junkman
Well-known member
LOL...Sounds like you speak from experience!
Yes......... lots of experience seeing people like you breeze in without reading the whole thread, and then start making comments without regard for all the facts, and then breeze out.
rwhite692
Well-known member
I read the whole thing and I stand by my comments, Thanks!
bgott
Well-known member
So, even though he told them what he would be hauling, and the dealer and manufacturer are supposed to be the experts, he needs to be an engineer before he buys a trailer, eh? If OCG had just waltzed onto the lot and bought the trailer with out consulting with the so called "experts", it would definitely be on him. I bet you figure that he needs to be an Oncologist and do his own diagnosis before he goes in for cancer surgery.
global72
Well-known member
Not that this thing is any of my business but I am just amazed by the lack of customer service. Now I do not think it is reasonable for a company to drop everything and give every customer everything they want. However to have a client that may have a very legit complaint and just be completely unwilling to speak with them is unacceptable.
Even if it is just to say sorry we are standing by our decision and this is why. At least hear someone out.
Even if it is just to say sorry we are standing by our decision and this is why. At least hear someone out.
Art From De Leon
Well-known member
Very Professional. This will further the impression that you are not POed about some minor detail.
Hopefully, you will be able to inform a lot of potential customers at the show, as to the events leading up to this. Perhaps a picture display showing the damage, and how you repaired it.
I wish you luck.
Hopefully, you will be able to inform a lot of potential customers at the show, as to the events leading up to this. Perhaps a picture display showing the damage, and how you repaired it.
I wish you luck.
boiler7904
Well-known member
Looks good.
Take photos of the trailer. Mail them to Class(less) Act and tell them you'll be pulling the trailer everywhere you go until they step up to the plate and make things right.
Take photos of the trailer. Mail them to Class(less) Act and tell them you'll be pulling the trailer everywhere you go until they step up to the plate and make things right.
Dq383500
Well-known member
Read thru all of this,I just can't see a reason why I would want to enclose my ATV other than maybe security,But at best it would be false security,in my book foam and fiberglass just doesn't cut it.Best of luck resolving this problem.PS wish I had a car that warranted an enclosed trailer!
The dealer as well as Class Act knew exactly what my requirements were. I ordered a 8'6" wide by 22' long Flat Front CAR Hauler. To haul cars not ATV’s and Motor Cycles. But I received and paid for a car hauler with a door designed and built only for ATV’s and Motor Cycles.
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Junkman
Well-known member
In my business life, that spans a period of more than 50 years, I have never mistreated a customer, and I have always done what is necessary to resolve any problems between myself and my customers. I have always gone on the belief that one happy customer will bring you many more, and one unhappy customer will cause you permanent reputation damage. For this reason, I have always dealt with reasonable people reasonably. I always listened to what the customer wanted, and if it was reasonable, I did what was proper. If it was unreasonable, I would work with that customer until we could find a middle ground where we could both agree. This is what is lacking in todays business world. OCG is being reasonable in his requests, and the manufacturer is being unreasonable, and will not even communicate. He exercised do diligence in informing the manufacturer and the dealer of his needs, and how the trailer was going to be used. The manufacturer is at fault here, because they didn't build the unit to the specifications as requested. It is not up to the end user to do the engineering, nor should it be expected of them. It is my guess that in the ordering process, someone dropped the ball and left the door requirement out of the original order or production records. If this matter is to be litigated, then it will be interesting to subpoena the original order records, along with the original production records, to find out where the omission occurred. It is further my guess that it was on the production side where the error occurred. Now, no one wants to take the responsibility to remedy the problem. For any trailer manufacturer to get into a fight with a customer over a $1000 door is ludicrous. They have already damaged their reputation just by this thread staying active. On the other side of the coin are companies such as Bend Pak and Danmar that bend over backward to keep every customer happy, no matter what the issue.
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
Heading towards 10,000 views.
That, in my books, would equate to way more than $1000
damage to their company.
.
That, in my books, would equate to way more than $1000
damage to their company.
.
Defender Chassis
Well-known member
OCG,
Did you actually talk with anyone at ClassAct before the purchase or did the dealer act as your "agent"? I am wondering if this is not an issue with your dealer. How do you know ClassActs hands are not clean on this? I am assuming you did not actually write a specification and solicit bids per your spec? Just wondering.
Did you actually talk with anyone at ClassAct before the purchase or did the dealer act as your "agent"? I am wondering if this is not an issue with your dealer. How do you know ClassActs hands are not clean on this? I am assuming you did not actually write a specification and solicit bids per your spec? Just wondering.
In the bidding process I relied on JTI, my dealer, to relay my requirements to Class Act. JTI is a three generation business that has been in the Greater Cleveland area since 1933. And are a reliable dealer that I have worked with for years. I cannot imagine that they didn't fully communicate my needs to Class Act.
Throughout the ordering process, JTI was in close contact with Class Act. I paid Class Act for a number of upgrades and some major design changes to accommodate my cars. I originally had it quoted to have the height increased by 18” along with the lengthening the ramp door. The factory stated, through JTI, a ramp door could be designed and built 12” longer than their standard and still carry the load of my cars. But not 18” as I originally requested. I agreed to the 12” increase if Class Act made that the door opening 7' 5” minimum. Enough to clear the roof of my 7' 4” car. Again I ordered a “Car Hauler.” And if I was only hauling ATV's and Motorcycles, why would I pay and additional $421.00 to increase the height of the trailer 12”, making the door opening to 7' 5”?
There were numerous other items such as winch plates, escape door, wider roadside door, axle upgrades, axle placement, auxiliary battery, interior and exterior lighting requirements, ground clearances, lower wheel well heights, and tongue modifications. That I received answers and pricing for. JTI would not have picked any of the above out of the air.
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rwhite692
Well-known member
Well, I can see there's no room for any differing points of view, in this thread.
I think your dealer is the one who bungled the communication with the manufacturer regarding your specific needs and they are now playing dumb.
Word of advice: Next time you buy something this expensive, which as you say has been extensively custom-configured specifically for your particular needs, get your list of requirements, and the vendor's agreement to meet those requirements, down in writing.
Sure would have saved you a lot of mental anguish.
But then again, you seem to really be enjoying all the attention.
Good luck, OCG.
I think your dealer is the one who bungled the communication with the manufacturer regarding your specific needs and they are now playing dumb.
Word of advice: Next time you buy something this expensive, which as you say has been extensively custom-configured specifically for your particular needs, get your list of requirements, and the vendor's agreement to meet those requirements, down in writing.
Sure would have saved you a lot of mental anguish.
But then again, you seem to really be enjoying all the attention.
Good luck, OCG.
A few months ago I bought an H+H 24'+V nose flat top car hauler. If you're going to buy another trailer, I suggest you check them out.
My ramp door is made entirely of steel and is Line X'd but does include the "garage door" style cables and spring on the header. There may be an option to eliminate it, I'm not sure.
Of all the trailers I looked at, it was hands down the best quality inside, underneath etc.
It wasn't cheap, but you know just as well that you get what you pay for. I'm sure you'll never take delivery without a top to bottom inspection again.
My ramp door is made entirely of steel and is Line X'd but does include the "garage door" style cables and spring on the header. There may be an option to eliminate it, I'm not sure.
Of all the trailers I looked at, it was hands down the best quality inside, underneath etc.
It wasn't cheap, but you know just as well that you get what you pay for. I'm sure you'll never take delivery without a top to bottom inspection again.
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