My First Braze (Which Kit?)

[jonathan75]

I have a lot of extra 3/8 and 5/8 copper line that I want to practice brazing on. But I am having trouble picking out a kit. I don't have anything so I really need a full kit. I will purchase the MC Acetylene Tank and the 20CU Oxygen Tank local. Any advice on a good quality brand kit? Here are three I have been looking at.

VICTOR CUTSKILL TOTE WELDING & CUTTING KIT 0384-0938 $265.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130480032772

NKA125M12P NRP (Uniweld?) $241.00
http://www.nrproducts.com/products/PDF/04-FlameTools.pdf

Smith Quickbraze HVAC Caddy Outfit 23-5004A $336.00
http://search.cyberweld.com/mod_sea...Type=D&configId=1360276425&filterType=default

I am leaning toward the Quickbraze right now. I like how the handle is small to get in tight spots and the small and flexible lines. The pictures are in reverse order. Sorry about that.

 

[Mike007]

I braze copper with a regular turbo torch. It uses air and acetylene.

 

[jonathan75]

I braze copper with a regular turbo torch. It uses air and acetylene.

I think I remember reading that a turbo torch can be hard to control the flame. Would the turbo torch be something someone new a brazing should avoid? It does save you money in the long run which is nice.

 

[joel63]

I braze copper with a regular turbo torch. It uses air and acetylene.

^^^^

I've used this setup for over 20 years.

For brazing copper tubing this works like a charm.

You can use it with a MC cylinder or the larger B cylinder.

 

[brewchief]

I have the Victor set, no problems, handle is plenty small.

That smith kit looks like it comes with some extra tips, the two headed tips can be nice in certain spots but 99.9% are not really needed.

Check out what your local welding supply or HVAC supplier carries, nice to be able to get a replacement tip on short notice.

 

[jonathan75]

^^^^

I've used this setup for over 20 years.

For brazing copper tubing this work like a charm.

You can use it with a MC cylinder or the larger B cylinder.

It is sounding better and better after reading this too.

http://victortechnologies.com/index...el-or-oxy-fuel-for-soldering-and-brazing.html

 

[59 wagon man]

dont waste your time with the mc tank . check out the pawn shops in your area. around here a btank complete with turbotorch is under 100. with the right tip you can braze 4" copper with a turbotorch

 

[chevelle67]

Turbo torch all the way for line sets.

 

[Bobdog]

Turbo Torch is what you want for what you're going to do.

I've done up to 3" copper with mine, anything bigger than that and the big torch comes out of the shop.

 

[sloppy]

like others have said I to would skip that MC tank, and go with the B tank..

 

[jonathan75]

How does this kit look? They told me the included tips will braze up to 1 inch.

Durable Tote Case
Self-igniting Extreme PL - 8A torch tip
Standard swirl flame A - 3 Tip
G4 Torch Handle
AR - B Regulator
AH - 12 Hose
$244.80

http://store.cyberweld.com/tutdroto...lid=COz44r6LpL8CFc3m7AodKjgAwA#pdItemDataTabs

 

[jonathan75]

I also wanted to get thoughts on a Nitrogen Purge Kit, Flow Meter and Brazing Rods.

TurboTorch NPK-TT 10pc Nitrogen Purge Kit 0386-1370 $179.88
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TurboTorch-...386-1370-/360614383119?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

TurboTorch Nitrogen Flow Meter 0386-0849 $48.70
http://store.cyberweld.com/tuniflme03.html#pdItemDataTabs

Harris 0 Phos Copper Brazing Rod 0620F1 $15.50
http://store.cyberweld.com/tusi0brrodsf.html

 

[joel63]

How does this kit look? They told me the included tips will braze up to 1 inch.

Durable Tote Case
Self-igniting Extreme PL - 8A torch tip
Standard swirl flame A - 3 Tip
G4 Torch Handle
AR - B Regulator
AH - 12 Hose
$244.80

http://store.cyberweld.com/tutdroto...lid=COz44r6LpL8CFc3m7AodKjgAwA#pdItemDataTabs

I use the MC tank because I don't like lugging the B tank.

I have the #3, 5, 8, and 11 tips.

If you're just sweating copper or brazing copper you won't be disappointed with this setup.

 

[joel63]

I also wanted to get thoughts on a Nitrogen Purge Kit, Flow Meter and Brazing Rods.

TurboTorch NPK-TT 10pc Nitrogen Purge Kit 0386-1370 $179.88
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TurboTorch-...386-1370-/360614383119?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

TurboTorch Nitrogen Flow Meter 0386-0849 $48.70
http://store.cyberweld.com/tuniflme03.html#pdItemDataTabs
"]
A little fancy for me.

Harris 0 Phos Copper Brazing Rod 0620F1 $15.50
http://store.cyberweld.com/tusi0brrodsf.html

The Harris O Phos Copper Brazing Rod is the basic stuff. It works well.
You will need to practice making some joints to get a feel for the flow characteristics.

You might want to experiment with the higher quality stuff that contains a little silver in it.

 

[jonathan75]

I use the MC tank because I don't like lugging the B tank.

I have the #3, 5, 8, and 11 tips.

If you just sweating copper or brazing copper you won't be disappointed with this setup.

Can I hook up a MC tank or B tank? Or do they have different connections on the tank? If this kit will take either tank I guess I can toss something in the bottom to take up the space.

 

[joel63]

Can I hook up a MC tank or B tank? Or do they have different connections on the tank? If this kit will take either tank I guess I can toss something in the bottom to take up the space.

You will need an adaptor to go from the B fitting on the regulator to the MC tank.

 

[jonathan75]

The Harris O Phos Copper Brazing Rod is the basic stuff. It works well.
You will need to practice making some joints to get a feel for the flow characteristics.

You might want to experiment with the higher quality stuff that contains a little silver in it.

The price jumps up to $52 so I wanted to practice with the cheap stuff. I guess if I get good on the cheap stuff then when I use the good silver content one it will be a piece of cake. That could be just what I think because I never brazed in my life.

No wait I did braze once in my life over 20 years ago when I visited a plumbing class. I remember my braze looked like ****, but I was much younger and scared of heat and fire at the time.

Here is the link to the silver one.
http://store.cyberweld.com/tubrrodsi5sf.html

 

[jonathan75]

You will need an adaptor to go from the B fitting on the regulator to the MC tank.

I will check it out when I pick up the tank local. How long can your braze on a MC?

 

[joel63]

I will check it out when I pick up the tank local. How long can your braze on a MC?

I usually can do 5 - 6 or more jobs on a tank.

I keep 2 tanks.

 

[joel63]

The price jumps up to $52 so I wanted to practice with the cheap stuff. I guess if I get good on the cheap stuff then when I use the good silver content one it will be a piece of cake. That could be just what I think because I never brazed in my life.


Here is the link to the silver one.
http://store.cyberweld.com/tubrrodsi5sf.html

Wow! The price has gone up like everything else.

I used to use the 15% rod. Probably still have some left.

After you get familiar with the flow characteristics, you can decide which to use on a permanent basis.

 

[brewchief]

I would skip the nitrogen flow meter, you can get the same affect by turning your nitrogen regulator down very low. Personally I prefer oxygen and acetylene over straight acetylene because I can get more pinpoint heat in tight areas.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

^^^^

I've used this setup for over 20 years.

For brazing copper tubing this work like a charm.

You can use it with a MC cylinder or the larger B cylinder.

28 years for me. Once you get a little practice with it you should even be able to soft solder with it.

You don't have any realistic need for an oxy-acetylene setup to run copper unless you're going to become a commercial pipefitter. If you're planning on learning some welding, too, that's different.

Tommy

 

[jonathan75]

I would skip the nitrogen flow meter, you can get the same affect by turning your nitrogen regulator down very low. Personally I prefer oxygen and acetylene over straight acetylene because I can get more pinpoint heat in tight areas.

I already ordered the flow meter this afternoon. From what I understand it may pay for itself because you can set it very low at the perfect level that wastes less nitrogen. Knowing me I would have that puppy cracked open too much.

I got the TurboTorch, it might be safer for me since it operates at a lower temperature. Less likely to burn through the copper pipe in my amateur hands.

28 years for me. Once you get a little practice with it you should even be able to soft solder with it.

You don't have any realistic need for an oxy-acetylene setup to run copper unless you're going to become a commercial pipefitter. If you're planning on learning some welding, too, that's different.

Tommy

Actually I do want to learn to weld. I will just get a separate rig later on down the road. At least I already have one of the tanks I need.

 

[joel63]

I already ordered the flow meter this afternoon. From what I understand it may pay for itself because you can set it very low at the perfect level that wastes less nitrogen. Knowing me I would have that puppy cracked open too much.

I got the TurboTorch, it might be safer for me since it operates at a lower temperature. Less likely to burn through the copper pipe in my amateur hands.



Actually I do want to learn to weld. I will just get a separate rig later on down the road. At least I already have one of the tanks I need.

Which tank did you get?

 

[jonathan75]

Which tank did you get?

I am going to get a B tank on my way back in town.

 

[jonathan75]

I am back, here is a picture of me with the tank. Nobody was really hurt.

 

[jonathan75]

Actually that was not a real picture above. Here are the real pictures. The tanks were smaller then I expected. The guy behind the counter didn't know much and told me the tanks were over 5' tall! I almost purchased a rolling cart. When I went around back to pick them up they were very tiny. Both the Acetylene and Nitrogen are 40CU.

Them are some ugly tanks. Looks like they had a hard life. The Nitrogen tank handle is cracked but it still works. Too bad the tanks can't talk, looks like they could tell some stories.

Here are the prices for future reference and to help others. I chalk it up for the price of educating myself.

Acetylene B Tank (40CU)
$19.50 Fill
$83.85 Tank
$2.50 Maintenance Fee
------------------------
$105.85 Total

Nitrogen 40CU Tank
$10.18 Fill
$116.92 Tank
$2.50 Maintenance Fee
-----------------------
$129.60 Total

 

[joel63]

That doggone B tank is too darn heavy for me.

Good luck with your brazing lessons.

 

[jonathan75]

That doggone B tank is too darn heavy for me.

Good luck with your brazing lessons.

Thanks, my Turbo Torch comes tomorrow.

 

[jonathan75]

I just realized that I think my kit may not come with the Tank Key for the B Tank. What is a good option to open and close the valve until I can get one? Is there any place open on Saturdays that offer Tank keys. It seems most industrial outfits are closed on the weekend.

Edit: I just found this at Harbor Freight online. They may have it in the store. Seems a crappy drill chuck with a tank key in the middle.

http://www.harborfreight.com/four-way-chuck-key-1745.html

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

A good small cresent wrench,with the emphasis on good/high quality.

 

[jonathan75]

A good small cresent wrench,with the emphasis on good/high quality.

I have a good one I can use. Thanks for the tip. I just noticed that the B Tank they gave me is missing the label. Is the label required for transportation? Is the only way I know for sure it is acetylene because of the valve on the top?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

The fittings are different between the 2 bottles,On bigger tanks the styles are different also.

 

[jonathan75]

I just got the kit from FedEx. It does come with a Tank Key. Just it does not advertise that as a included part.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

That makes sense that it should come with one.

 

[jonathan75]

I think I need to run out and get some brazing goggles. It looks like what I have is #10 and too dark. Hopefully I can find some local today. I heard that it can hurt your eyes and you don't know it or feel it. Would a auto dark welding helmet work? Or would it darken too much?

This one has a shade #4 in light shade setting and great reviews. Any thoughts?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_396400-4712...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

 

[brewchief]

In over 20 years of brazing a/c line sets I've never used anything more then safety glasses, clear inside and tinted outdoors, I rarely even use those unless I have to have my face close to the braze joint.

 

[jonathan75]

In over 20 years of brazing a/c line sets I've never used anything more then safety glasses, clear inside and tinted outdoors, I rarely even use those unless I have to have my face close to the braze joint.

I noticed that on YouTube as well. Nobody wears anything with a tint on it. They usually wear just safety goggles. But it looks like officially they want you to wear #3 to #5 shade. The welding helmet I was looking at will go down to #4. I just hope I can see what I am doing. I read in one forum a guy uses a auto dark helmet and just turns it off. Not sure what shade it is off?

Just found some more info. Here is what this guide says.

Cutting, torch brazing, torch soldering Optical radiation Spectacles or welding face shield. Typical shades: 1.5-3. See notes (3), (9).
3. Face shields should only be worn over primary eye protection (spectacles or goggles).
9. Welding helmets or faceshields should be used only over primary eye protection (spectacles or goggles).
Radiation -- ultraviolet, visible, and infrared radiation are produced in welding, brazing, and/or torchcutting processes. These are not ionizing radiation (as are X-rays and the gamma, beta, alpha emissions of many radioactive materials), and they and do not present the same hazards. But UV, IR and visible wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation are indeed radiation in every sense of the word. They are commonly refered to as radiant energy in safety documents pertaining to welding, brazing, and torchcutting.

http://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/training/ppetrain/shades.htm

http://www.thefabricator.com/article/safety/selecting-the-best-lens-for-welders-eye-protection

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Those recommendations are for what welders call brazing, it's not the same as what we do when we "braze" refrigeration lines... Other than for personal preference, all that you need is regular safety glasses.

Tommy

 

[jonathan75]

Those recommendations are for what welders call brazing, it's not the same as what we do when we "braze" refrigeration lines... Other than for personal preference, all that you need is regular safety glasses.

Tommy

The TurboTorch instructions I just read also recommends #3 eye protection. But as you pointed out safety is a personal preference.