My first machining tool

[stioc]

come on now, I never said that is what a mill is, just that is what I and a lot of others use it for. Yes from time to time I make a precise part, just most of the time within 1/8 of an inch is good enough. My lathe on the other hand is for the most part more precise work. Depends on the person and needs. And with practice you can do the shapes with a manual mill, my first time using one a guy wrote my name in the piece using the mill, slickist operation I have ever seen to this day.

Sorry, it was just a tongue-in-cheek comment You're right most times (for general car fabrication in a home garage) high precision of more than 40-thou's (.04") is rarely required but as I said I'm a newbie myself.

 

[drummingpariah]

Well, rather than getting too bogged down with details I don't understand yet, I did a thing today.

First, I cleared a little space in my tiny engine storage room (which is obviously the BEST place to have chips flying ... ).

I didn't have any of the right tools on-hand, so I eyeballed some measurements and marked up some 1/4" plate I had lying around.

Then I headed down to our Makerspace (which is amazing, btw) and traced those markings with an angle grinder (our vertical bandsaw is down at the moment) and a stepper drill bit.

A little 1" square tube and a little time with a hot glue gun, and I had what looked like a stand.

My bolt-hole measurements were (predictably) bad, but I was planning to use weld-nuts for this anyway. I'll just hog out the holes a bit more, and do a little welding to secure it.

While I'm at it, I'm going to add some feet to the bottom. It's much more stable than it looks, but I'd rather go overboard than underboard. That would also allow me to add leveling feet to the thing, which is always nice. I'm told it's good to have a milling machine that's level?

 

[bczygan]

And the fun begins......

I don't know how a human can sustain life without a mill.

Bill

 

[OccupantRJ]

I have been twisting cranks on vertical and horizontal mills at work for 28 years now. I have already set up my machine shop at home for when I retire this year. I could not see being without my mill and lathe. Both are indispensable for the things I do.

 

[matt_i]

While I'm at it, I'm going to add some feet to the bottom. It's much more stable than it looks, but I'd rather go overboard than underboard. That would also allow me to add leveling feet to the thing, which is always nice. I'm told it's good to have a milling machine that's level?

I would put some sheetmetal sides or form with wood and fill the center-space of the tube frame with concrete. Mass is always your friend in a machine shop.

 

[Griff93]

You could make that stand into a cabinet so you would have a good place to store extras that belong with the mill.

 

[drummingpariah]

I like both of those ideas. Maybe build a section into the bottom for stock storage, and a cabinet for cutting fluids and chip brushes above that.

 

[Kevin54]

i am in the same boat as you so i will be following this thread. Im a car nut myself and im always making brackets with other tools when a mill would have save me hours. Ive been looking at benchtop machines but just haven't pulled the trigger yet. Get yourself a good DRO and that will be your best measurement tool to use with the mill.

For smaller hobby stuff, a benchtop mill is fine. But if you are going to be doing it on a regular basis, I would look into a Bridgeport or something similar. You'll have so much more versatility. I've ran mills, lathes, and CNC's for over 32 years in the toolroom, and by far, a good mill is a must for anything that has any size to it. And today, you can pick up a GOOD used BP or something else for $2000 tops. I paid $2300 for my LAGUN with a readout and a rotary phase converter, and the mill is as smooth as if it were brand new.

 

[larry_g]

That would also allow me to add leveling feet to the thing, which is always nice. I'm told it's good to have a milling machine that's level?

One thing a level machine will help you with is cutting angles. With an inexpensive angle finder

You can set a part in the vise to make an angled cut on it. If the machine is out of level then it takes two measurements and a bit of math to set it up or with a digital like shown you zero on the table and then measure the part.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[rsanter]

With that base you have too much weight up top and not enough at the bottom.
Also a heavier base can help dampen vibrations.
If it was me I would add a couple of shelves to that base to store some material or extra tooling.
I should have suggested it before but for machines like yours I like building a stand around a toolbox, perhaps an end cabinet to provide some tooling storage wothnthe machine.

If the bottom of those tubes are welded/capped shut. You can add sand with old motor oil into the legs. This will add weight as well as the oiled sand with have a dampening effect.

I would recomend that you buy a quality set of drill bits that you use for the mill and lathe only. If you spin a drill but in the chuck it gets replaced with a new one and the old one goes for hand drilling.

One of the first real projects you should make is a Dan Gelbart inspired laser center finder. It will be a valuable tool and they are not hard to make. Not expensive either.

Bob

 

[drummingpariah]

For smaller hobby stuff, a benchtop mill is fine. But if you are going to be doing it on a regular basis, I would look into a Bridgeport or something similar. You'll have so much more versatility. I've ran mills, lathes, and CNC's for over 32 years in the toolroom, and by far, a good mill is a must for anything that has any size to it. And today, you can pick up a GOOD used BP or something else for $2000 tops. I paid $2300 for my LAGUN with a readout and a rotary phase converter, and the mill is as smooth as if it were brand new.

That's the plan for the Makerspace. I don't have room or power for a proper milling machine. Also, I wouldn't be able to fit a full-size milling machine in this shop, and wouldn't want to have to move it again when I leave this rental. Once I buy a garage, that'll be a different story ... but for now, benchtop is a must-have.

...
You can set a part in the vise to make an angled cut on it. If the machine is out of level then it takes two measurements and a bit of math to set it up or with a digital like shown you zero on the table and then measure the part.

That's how I take all my measurements with my tubing notcher and bender. I think it's even the same digital level as in that photo.

With that base you have too much weight up top and not enough at the bottom.
Also a heavier base can help dampen vibrations.
If it was me I would add a couple of shelves to that base to store some material or extra tooling.
I should have suggested it before but for machines like yours I like building a stand around a toolbox, perhaps an end cabinet to provide some tooling storage wothnthe machine.

If the bottom of those tubes are welded/capped shut. You can add sand with old motor oil into the legs. This will add weight as well as the oiled sand with have a dampening effect.

I would recomend that you buy a quality set of drill bits that you use for the mill and lathe only. If you spin a drill but in the chuck it gets replaced with a new one and the old one goes for hand drilling.

One of the first real projects you should make is a Dan Gelbart inspired laser center finder. It will be a valuable tool and they are not hard to make. Not expensive either.

Bob

Agreed. It's pretty stable at rest, but I don't trust a sharp-spinny-thing tool on a stand this tall with such a small footprint. I'm pretty partial to this as a starting point, but I may add an attachment to the sides for small toolboxes or just tooling holders. For right now, I think I can get away with some leg extensions, similar to this:

I love the idea of oil-filled legs. I haven't capped the bottom yet, but I think I'm going to add a much larger plate on the bottom of this stand, and leg extensions to increase the overall footprint. The stand is already 50lbs (that's a fair amount of steel for how small the stand is), but I'd like to roughly double that. A plate, some oiled sand, and stock storage should be a pretty solid setup.

I just finished a 12+ hour day of releasing new code and infrastructure, so I'm too tired to do anything in the shop tonight. However, I was excited to come home to this:

I'm sure I'll have some sort of update tomorrow.

 

[DocsMachine]

I like both of those ideas. Maybe build a section into the bottom for stock storage, and a cabinet for cutting fluids and chip brushes above that.

-I like the concrete idea. The footprint for that stand is awfully small.

An optional idea: Drop the stand over another plate of 1/4" (or whatever you have laying about) that's another 3-4" wider on all sides than the current stand.

Weld some filler plates between the new base and lower cross-braces you have already, to form a box. Fill said box with dry sand.

Then just make a piece of square plywood, with the corners cut out, to sit on top of the cross-braces. There's your first "shelf", and if necessary, you can later scoop the sand out- unlike set concrete- if you need to move or modify the stand.

Doc.

 

[DocsMachine]

That would also allow me to add leveling feet to the thing, which is always nice. I'm told it's good to have a milling machine that's level?

-It's nice, but not vital. A lathe needs to be "level"- that is, level and square to itself, because the bed can twist. A mill won't twist like that, so basically as long as it's not to we-hawed that your pencil keeps rolling off, you're fine.

It IS, however, handy to have it level, so you can use an actual level to help set up parts- say, to make sure you're getting a drilled hole square to a long part.

Doc.

 

[drummingpariah]

I spent a good amount of today re-thinking my original stand idea. In the end, I decided I'm over-thinking it and simplified the plan. All I did was add a bigger 1/4" plate to the bottom, and drill the correct holes in the top (the two little ones in the back; The big holes in the front are fine).

The base gives me some space to store heavy stock, and I'll have a chat with my landlord about putting some concrete bolts or studs in the floor.

I got home, replaced all the bulbs in the workshop (that buzzing and flickering slowly drives me crazy. I really want every workshop to have daylight-levels of work lighting. In this case, my 10'x10' room has 8 4' t12 bulbs, and the double-15" t8 work light (which I love).

With everything in place (and leveled, just because I can) I'm pretty happy with the way things are going. I have a feeling that it'll take a little time to master this new dial gauge, but everything else is fairly straightforward. I can't believe how powerful a simple magnetic base is on this arm-holder-thing. It's incredible!

 

[jarhead]

You need a dial indicator and an arm that will fasten to the quill. for one, you will need it to tram the head. Secondly, you will need it to square your vise to the table. As far as tramming the head according to your cut pattern....good luck on that. If you do hit it, it was pure luck.

Every one that I have taught to machine, the first thing to learn was how to tram a mill and square a vise. Once that is done, you can make yourself a set of temporary parallels. Also, if you are going to make precision items, pick yourself up a 10" or 12" height gage. then you can make an adapter for your dial indicator to precisely layout holes. You also need a precision square to check for squareness on machined blocks of material.

One other little tip when learning to machine......metal WILL move on you. If you have a longer piece of metal or a metal plate that you want to machine down. You have to machine both sides. Especially when machining down the thin side of the plate or bar. Cutting only one side relieves the material and can actually bow it. A couple of cuts off of each side, depending on the thickness of the cut will insure the part stays straight(er). Learn what metal does and how it reacts. Look at it as you are looking at it in slow motion. What is the cutter doing, what is the metal doing, What does the different sounds mean? Once you can do that, you are on your way.

This is how it is done...

 

[drummingpariah]

I started making a 1/2" diameter shaft with an arm for the dial indicator today, but didn't finish. I did finish using this tool that I'm calling, "The very definition of overkill"

I don't know if I've ever felt so powerful as drilling through concrete like a loaf of bread. This weekend (when the appropriately-sized anchors arrive) the milling machine will be firmly anchored to the floor, with some milled hockey pucks to level and dampen it.

 

[drummingpariah]

My week was extremely busy at work, so I didn't get around to installing the concrete studs until today. Now this thing doesn't even think about moving or wobbling. Now I can get some machining time in.

In other news, I'll definitely need a small home lathe sooner rather than later (not right now, but within the next few months). I can comfortably fit around 50" width in my machining/engine room. Larger is possible, but with the big South Bend available right over at the Makerspace, I don't need to go crazy with capacity.

That means I probably want something between a 6" and 10" swing, and that should cover just about anything I can imagine making. The South Bend 9's are most appealing (because the South Bend is what I'm most familiar with already, and parts availability seems great). Craftsman/Atlas 9/10" lathes seem to be pretty readily available as well, but I haven't come across any decent comparisons of the two. I looked at the Grizzly 7x14, and it looks like it'd get the job done ... but for roughly the same price (after shipping and tooling included with a used lathe) I could get something from the 40's. I'm starting to want older, classier, prettier machines. I mostly blame you folks.

 

[Craptain]

My week was extremely busy at work, so I didn't get around to installing the concrete studs until today. Now this thing doesn't even think about moving or wobbling. Now I can get some machining time in.

In other news, I'll definitely need a small home lathe sooner rather than later (not right now, but within the next few months). I can comfortably fit around 50" width in my machining/engine room. Larger is possible, but with the big South Bend available right over at the Makerspace, I don't need to go crazy with capacity.

That means I probably want something between a 6" and 10" swing, and that should cover just about anything I can imagine making. The South Bend 9's are most appealing (because the South Bend is what I'm most familiar with already, and parts availability seems great). Craftsman/Atlas 9/10" lathes seem to be pretty readily available as well, but I haven't come across any decent comparisons of the two. I looked at the Grizzly 7x14, and it looks like it'd get the job done ... but for roughly the same price (after shipping and tooling included with a used lathe) I could get something from the 40's. I'm starting to want older, classier, prettier machines. I mostly blame you folks.

Good luck on the choice of lathe. I have an Atlas 618 and it does everything I need but not everything I want. I have looked at mills too and would like to go the same path as you. But so far my budget is a bit light.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[drummingpariah]

Yeah, it's a really tough decision. I think I've decided on a 9a; It has all the core features I want and quick-change gears (really nice for doing threads). I'm just going to keep an eye on Craigslist for a good deal, I haven't seen one for under a grand since I started looking.

I'd really like to add a lathe to that room, but I'm certainly not in any rush. Time is on my si---
(less than 24 hours later)

So ... um ... I guess I need a more permanent bench for this thing.

$600 in ready-to-turn condition, and I'm a pretty happy camper. I'm going to need to invest in some tooling and probably tool holders, though.

 

[larry_g]

(less than 24 hours later)

So ... um ... I guess I need a more permanent bench for this thing.

My experience, I had a small Logan of that size and on a stand made of small square tubing with a steel top, a lot like what you show. The whole bench would vibrate and chatter in the cut was bad. I changed the stand out for a heavy wooden one and chatter went away. So mass and a low resonate frequency material is better than light and stiff. I'd suggest that if you want to keep that frame, lift the steel top off of it and add a 2" thick wooden top and then the steel on top of that.

You got a good looking lathe there and a good stand will help it work better.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[drummingpariah]

My experience, I had a small Logan of that size and on a stand made of small square tubing with a steel top, a lot like what you show. The whole bench would vibrate and chatter in the cut was bad. I changed the stand out for a heavy wooden one and chatter went away. So mass and a low resonate frequency material is better than light and stiff. I'd suggest that if you want to keep that frame, lift the steel top off of it and add a 2" thick wooden top and then the steel on top of that.

You got a good looking lathe there and a good stand will help it work better.

It's in mostly-good condition. I tore down and cleaned the vises today (they needed it badly, but ended up moving really really smoothly), and found what appears to be a few missing set screws. Does anyone have any input on these guys?

Missing screw above the dovetail:

Missing screw on the indicator (I did fish out the brass plunger, which is consistent with the top vise's assembly, but the set screw is gone).

The ways have typical wear, but I haven't measured travel against the headstock yet. I'll worry about that a little later, since it won't affect whether I keep this machine or not.

I've been working on my 'how many units big is this thing' shelf as well, which is coming along nicely. I don't really like having everything in a box, so I'm going to have to make some tool holders soon.

So far, I've been using bar oil to coat ... just about everything, really. Again, I haven't been through the rest of the manual yet (I'm going through one bit at a time) so I'm looking for some advise on what else I should have for the machine itself (I think I'm all set on cutting oil).

I'm sure I can sort this next issue out on my own. The leather drive belt is in an especially sorry state. I'm not opposed to making a new one (I have a bunch of 12oz leather lying around from my various holster projects) but it looks like a linked belt might be an easier solution.

The more I clean the thing, the more I want to paint it. I'm fighting that urge until I can confirm that it's in as good condition as I want to believe it is.

Finally, I'm hanging decorations in the engine room! This is the first of two, and it's making me wish I had organized the pile of engines and shop vac before hanging it.

 

[matt_i]

I'd put the bar oil in your chainsaw and use way oil (Vactra 2) on your lathe & mill.

Note the difference is the bar oil is a total-loss lube and is expected to be cheap and compete with others at a low price point with a few tackifiers.

The vactra can also be lost from the ways but it also gets carried in the headstock, tailstock, apron of expensive machinery (costing 100X as much as a chainsaw) as a general lubricant.

A serpentine belt run with the grooves up may be your best bet and avoid the clink-clink of the splice joint. However it requires taking the spindle off the bed to install if its the one on those large steps.

 

[drummingpariah]

Duly noted. I picked it up because it seemed like a better temporary rust preventative for tooling than wd40. The goal was, "good enough to buy me time to make a better decision," I haven't been able to find way oil locally, where should I be shopping online for this stuff?

 

[bullnerd]

Just my opinion, but I hate painted lathes!

Unless, its done really well, like the factory couldn't tell it was repainted.

Otherwise, I love the patina on old lathes, so much character.

 

[MRH]

The threaded hole above the dovetail is for the threading stop. It clamps onto the dovetail, and a bolt goes through the stop and threads into that hole.

 

[matt_i]

where should I be shopping online for this stuff?

Always good to have at least one McMaster Carr printed catalog (although the website is pretty good). MSC big book, and I like KBC tools although they may not be in print any more. Production Tool Supply is also local to Michigan. I'm sure there are others but these are good places to start.

 

[drummingpariah]

I didn't do anything exciting today, just cleaned and read manuals. Soon, though.

 

[txvwnut]

Wow you went down the rabbit hole head first. But you really can't have one without the other.