My garage build quote. Thoughts? What am I missing?

[plcguru]

Hi All,
So, I'm starting to look around for quotes to have a detached garage built for a new house. It should match the look of the house.
I will use it purely for my retirement shop to do hobby(not pro lol) car restoration.
I asked a pole building company to provide a quote for a 30x45 building. (enough for 4 cars and workspace)
I want to install a 2 post car lift in it so guessing 12ft tall ceilings are ok.

The quote contains the below.

What is it missing or should I ask for??
Initially I'm thinking it needs some insulation for ceiling and walls, but what kind?
I guess drywall for walls as well and a couple more windows too.
Drywall required on ceiling on bottom of trusses??
How are electrical specs? I need to power a 240v 2post lift and a 60gal compressor for sure plus misc 120v tools.
I'd like to install heat later, how many btu's needed for that size building as that's an electrical need as well
Enough outlets?
Lighting seems ok?


It will go in Delaware so limited snow and not bitter cold lol

Thanks for any advice!

-------

Seller to provide building labor and material for the completion of a 30x45x12 residential postframe building​

	Posts:	3-Ply 2x6 glue-lam, spaced 8’ on center Gable posts extend to roof metal 50-year limited warranty
	Carriers:	2x12 (grade #1 southern pine) each side of post and/or engineered carriers as specified in plans
III.​	Skirt Board:	Foundation grade treated 2x8, Corrosion barrier between base trim and treated 2x8 and installed
IV.	Purlins:	Spruce lumber 2x4 spaced on 2’ centers
V.​	Side Girts:	Spruce lumber 2x4 spaced on 2’ centers
VI.	Trusses:	Engineered (SPF and/or SYP), spaced on 4’ centers, 6/12 pitch Common trusses
VII.	Hurricane Clips:	Supplied and installed per building code requirements
VIII.	Roofing	ga. Painted grade #1 Galvalume® Steel, 40 Yr. Limited warranty

​

IX.	Siding	Vinyl siding (with ½” plywood sheathing)
X.​	Ridge vents:	Ridge vent to be supplied and installed
XI.	Overhang:	1’ overhang on eaves and gables Painted steel fascia Painted steel drip edge Vented vinyl soffit
XII.	Footers:	3500 PSI dry pour concrete backfilled with existing soil
XIII.	Insulation:	Bubble insulation under steel roof of building to prevent condensation
XIV.	Windows:	One (1) 3x3 W • A.	incore windows Limited Lifetime Warranty Double hung with tilt sashes
		• B.​	Maintenance free vinyl frames and sashes
		• C.​	Argon gas Insulated dual pane Low-E glass
		• D.​	Grids between Glass
		• E.​	Full Screen
XV.	Personal Doors:	One (1) 3068 9-lite Plastpro 2000 smooth skin fiberglass door(s) with locket and 25-year limited warranty in Plastpro PF frames
XVI.	Overhead Doors:	Two (2) 10x10 overhead doors • 2500 Series Hass raised panel steel overhead doors made with heavy-duty 25 Ga. Steel and environmentally safe vinyl backing (insulated)
XVII.	Pent Eave	One (1) 30’ pent eave above overhead doors in gable
XVIII.	Site Prep:	Site Prep Included in Price. Limited to the removal of 4-6” of topsoil. *Fill dirt will be invoiced separately.* Exterior landscaping (leveling, seeding, soil stabilization, etc.) is the responsibility of the customer. No swale will be installed around the building. If a site is found to be more than 12” out of level, or large rock formations are present, additional charges may apply. Additional dirt (fill or topsoil) will not be removed by PBU. The customer is responsible to dispose of remaining soil. Silt fence and/or final grade, if required, will be invoiced separately.
XIX.	Concrete:	4000Psi fiber reinforced concrete with saw-cut expansion joints and 6mil vapor barrier 30x45 concrete floor 4” thick Two (2) 4x4 lift pads 6” thick 3x30 concrete apron 4” thick 4x4 concrete pad 4” thick
**.	Electric Package B	60 amp sub panel with grounding to electrical code (Assuming existing panel can handle new load; If new service is required, customer is responsible to contact power company and any costs with power company; will help to fill out new service load sheet when required) 50’ service wire from new panel to existing panel (over 50’ will be added cost) 6- 8 LED light fixtures for inside building (8’ fixtures come with 7year warranty 60,000 hour life span) 4- outdoor/coach lights (Outdoor/coach lights to be provided by customer; electric package provides labor, wire, and box for install, and has lighting venders available for assistance) 12- 20 amp receptacles (2 garage door receptacles, 2 GFCI receptacles per code, 8 general 20 amp receptacles in building, provided is 3- 20 amp circuits for receptacles) 2- 20 amp outdoor receptacles (GFCI protected per code) 3- 20 amp light switches (1 switch for inside building lights, 2 switches for outdoor lights) Electrical inspection included
XXI.	Drawings:	CAD drawings supplied for the building permit process
XXII.	Permit:	Permit to be pulled by ***, free of charge *Permit fee to be billed separately once invoiced by county*
XXIII.	Debris Removal:	Any leftover debris/material will be disposed of by *** upon completion of project

**All building details and costs depend on permit approval and code examination. Any required alterations may result in extra expenses for the purchaser. Offer remains valid for 15 days. **

 

[Youngandfree]

Did you let them know what your electrical requirements are and that you want drywall and insulation?

 

[plcguru]

Did you let them know what your electrical requirements are and that you want drywall and insulation?

Thanks for asking!
I asked for a generic quote stating my use case. It's round one and vendor one.

I did ask for a revised quote with just ceiling insulated and drywalled. And another with walls and ceiling insulated and drywalled.
They told me 2' truss spacing would be required so number of trusses would double from that initial quote.
I expect those 2 quotes tomorrow or Monday.

I'm not sure what electrical would be required, like is 60 amp service enough? I was seeking advice from experts here and would transfer back to them.

So, I am seeking advice from those folks here who have been down the road before me and/or know more about building than I.

Thanks!

 

[Pontiac787]

I'm not sure what electrical would be required, like is 60 amp service enough?

You might squeak by but there would be no room for later upgrades so I would say no. 20amps for a lift. 20/30 amps for compressor. Lights, outlets, heat, welder?

 

[MushCreek]

Are you planning on any plumbing? I know that as a retiree, I'm glad to have facilities in the shop without having to hike back to the house every time. My shop is 150 feet from the house, though. 60 amp service is pretty light. I'd go 100A.

 

[plcguru]

I'll ask to change from 60A to 100A electrical and consider that required.

I'm still on the fence about plumbing but certainly won't hurt to ask
Thanks

 

[nicholsmf]

I asked a pole building company to provide a quote for a 30x45 building. (enough for 4 cars and workspace)

If you want space for 4 cars and room to work, I would seriously reconsider your size. My shop is 30 x 46 and there is no way I could fit 4 cars in it and have any decent room to work. Consider how much room tables, benches, toolboxes, etc. take up.

 

[OccupantRJ]

100 amp electrical, for sure.
Urinal And sink. Toilet is a luxury when the shop is in the back yard, and something else to clean and sanitize down low. Urinal and sink can be run to a dry well at any point in time after final inspection. My shop rest room with toilet has a sewage grinder pump and tank that pumps to my septic tank 100’ away. Looking back I would have done urinal and sink to dry well.

 

[97tj-neil]

Thanks for asking!
I asked for a generic quote stating my use case. It's round one and vendor one.

I did ask for a revised quote with just ceiling insulated and drywalled. And another with walls and ceiling insulated and drywalled.
They told me 2' truss spacing would be required so number of trusses would double from that initial quote.
I expect those 2 quotes tomorrow or Monday.

I'm not sure what electrical would be required, like is 60 amp service enough? I was seeking advice from experts here and would transfer back to them.

So, I am seeking advice from those folks here who have been down the road before me and/or know more about building than I.

Thanks!

If you go with steel liner panels on the ceiling, you can keep the trusses at 4' spacing. This should cut down on the labor to install as well (no tape, mud paint required).

 

[NUTTSGT]

If you want to finish it like a stick frame, then build it like a stick frame.

You've already found out about truss cost for the drywall.

Post frames accel in cost savings for the "bare" building. When you introduce finer finishes, you have to add more to get those finishes, like your extra trusses, wall framing for the drywall and sheathing for the vinyl siding.

 

[billconner]

I'm somewhat with nuttsgt on this. You want a stick frame look inside and out. Hard to get the economies of post frame with that. I'd at least get a quote.

I don't know your climate but that impacts the cost as well regarding foundation. And maybe I misread the quote but looks like embedded posts. While they don't bother me much many here are strongly against embedded wood posts.

Heating and cooling and insulation to don't seem to be mentioned.

An one last personal preference: On post frame I much prefer the trusses only at the columns and no headers ("carriers") like Hansen Builders do. I won't repeat their reasons but makes sense to me, especially fewer parts and less labor. And purlins for ceiling, not more trusses.

 

[racecougar]

If you go with steel liner panels on the ceiling, you can keep the trusses at 4' spacing. This should cut down on the labor to install as well (no tape, mud paint required).

Agreed. Liner panel will cut costs significantly.

If your existing panel will support a 100A sub, go for it. That said, a 60A will absolutely support your usage.

I would advocate for more outlets.

I'd skip the bubble insulation and focus on real insulation.

12' ceiling height would be the minimum I'd consider for a lift.

 

[plcguru]

Thanks all! Great info and I'll soak it all in and go back to vendor again once I absorb it all

In the meantime, I got a revised quote back quicker than I expected.

2' on center trusses and drywall ceiling and R-30 blown insulation for it.
R-19 batt and drywall for the walls.

This will go in southern Delaware so not ultra cold winters.
Is the insulation ok? I know more is always better but not sure what minimum is... I hope to install a heater down the road. It will be a retired guy hobby place so no 24/7 climate control needed. Just need to take the chill off in January and not have it 95 in August...

 

[Hooked]

95 in August.........pfft. Almost air conditioning temp.

Seriously, I neglected to have the walls in my metal building insulated, huge mistake on my part. If I had R-19 on the walls I think your shop will be fine with a fan moving air. I have a 4' shop fan which works fine for me.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If you go with ribbed metal siding or liner panels on the ceiling, you're back at the original 48" O.C. truss spacing, half the truss cost. The cost between metal vs. drywall comes back to labor cost to finish, mud, tape, sand, prime and paint.

Metal is one and done... Probably up and done in a single day.

 

[BombShelter]

I always felt garage builders just wanted to put up the shell, then you or the general would get subs for the electrical, plumbing and finishing and the concrete that proceded the build. Most 2-3 car garages around here are put up by two guys working really fast and that's all they do.

I'm a big gutter person, get that water flow away from the foundation and if you want a little more piece of mind put a layer of CETCO Voltex DS Bentonite Waterproofing under the slab before the pour, the local supplier should be able to hook you or the concrete guy up with a few rolls. This will keep water from moving up through the concrete.

VOLTEX Waterproofing Membranes | Minerals Technologies Inc.

VOLTEX waterproofing membranes combine the power of sodium bentonite within a durable geomembrane to provide waterproofing protection for any cast-in-place, below-grade concrete construction.

www.mineralstech.com

 

[Capt Crash]

You can contact your local building department and they should be able to tell you what insulation that you will need. I am in Colorado and they changed to a new building code last year. If the building is heated they want R-49 in the roof regardless of the use of the building.
Brian

 

[JoelSparks]

I'm doing a 25x40x12 pole barn with concrete floors in PA. Metal inside and out. 3 10x10 roll up doors. $57k. Working on 100a electric quote now.

 

[Pennsylvania 39]

I'm doing a 25x40x12 pole barn with concrete floors in PA. Metal inside and out. 3 10x10 roll up doors. $57k. Working on 100a electric quote now.

Are you having floor drains. I live in PA and I ha wash bay for winter 2 ft by 3 foot drain 1 floor drain in each of the 2 bays and 1 sink drain. The time to decide is before they pour the floor. Enjoy your new shop when you get it done

 

[Sumboodie]

Are you having floor drains. I live in PA and I ha wash bay for winter 2 ft by 3 foot drain 1 floor drain in each of the 2 bays and 1 sink drain. The time to decide is before they pour the floor. Enjoy your new shop when you get it done

Unless there's no nearby car wash, I wouldn't do a sort of wash bay. Humidity evac from that requires a large vent and heat system.
To do it right, it would need to be it's own bay

Plus having to handle a TON of water and salt, mud, dirt, etc.
A regular floor drain isn't designed for that and will overwhelm a septic.
We had a wash cart with 500 gallon tank and it was just enough to decently wash 2 trucks.

 

[grzellmer]

Thoughts. 30x45x12 is 1350 sq ft. I have 2 stick built garages 30x40x9 and 32x80x16. First answer is yes you can fit 4 cars in 1350 sq ft. But, space with cars, a work bench, lift and space around to work? 1350 is pretty tight depending on orientation of the doors, cars and lift. Gets better if 1 car is parked in the lift and moved as needed.

 

[grzellmer]

Other - item is 4" of concrete is not enough for most lifts. Min is 5" and a preference for 6".

 

[finn]

You might squeak by but there would be no room for later upgrades so I would say no. 20amps for a lift. 20/30 amps for compressor. Lights, outlets, heat, welder?

Remember that not everything will be running at once, and the lights will be low draw LEDs. The lift will run for maybe two minutes going up, and not at all going down. Welders are almost exclusively inverter designs nowadays.

That said, my electrician was pushing me towards 60 amp service for my 32x54. I held out for 100, but now suspect he was right. At least for a one man shop.

My shop is much larger than the garage and has 200 amp service, including three 50 amp welder and compressor circuits.

No way can I use 200 amps. The boiler is low draw and the three zone pumps are high efficiency replacements funded by a power company program

 

[bb29510]

on electrical, its cheaper to go bigger now than have to replace the wire coming from main breaker and throwing away good wire. if you need 60, go 100 on the main wire

 

[NUTTSGT]

Since the OP started this thread back in the spring, I'm curious how he is coming along with his planning project.

@plcguru

 

[plcguru]

Hi all,
Current status of project:
I ended getting a few more quotes.
Here are the details from my currently preferred vendor but still not signed as it's to be built when the house build starts and that's still designing too. It will match house design but colors, etc still not final.
Generic design attached along with latest quote details

30x45 still but 14' height for lift clearance. 15' side lean-to for future boat and potential car trailer covering during winter
Plumbing undecided still
100a service
I still prefer not to use metal roof(maybe use the closer trusses to lift an engine or something heavy, idk what future brings) and drywall on all walls throughout to hang things.

Your feedback is certainly appreciated and I'd like to know what else I'm missing

 

[dcg9381]

30x45 still but 14' height for lift clearance. 15' side lean-to for future boat and potential car trailer covering during winter
Plumbing undecided still
100a service
I still prefer not to use metal roof(maybe use the closer trusses to lift an engine or something heavy, idk what future brings) and drywall on all walls throughout to hang things.

My guess is you can go to 16' eve, get 14' doors and enclose that whole thing for a not-that-substantial swing. Beats coming back and enclosing it later (ask me how I know).

Are you using scissor trusses or something else to increase interior height? If not, you can simply add an LVL as a "lift beam" - you can get one that will take "engine weight" all day long. You should not lift on existing trusses unless you design for it.

Plumbing? Just do a water inlet and drain stub-outs for later retro fit. The only critical thing is if you need "in concrete" drains - which would require that you have an idea of where things are going to go later (and allowed by your local authority without being completed).

Nice garage!

 

[racecougar]

I still prefer not to use metal roof(maybe use the closer trusses to lift an engine or something heavy, idk what future brings) and drywall on all walls throughout to hang things.

This comment doesn't make sense to me. What does the roofing material have to do with lifting an engine from the trusses (which I'd advise against unless you're designing the trusses to take that point loading)? Drywall is typically decried as not something you can hang much from, unless you're sheeting the walls with OSB, ply, or the like, and skinning over that with drywall.

 

[manwithtools]

This comment doesn't make sense to me. What does the roofing material have to do with lifting an engine from the trusses (which I'd advise against unless you're designing the trusses to take that point loading)? Drywall is typically decried as not something you can hang much from, unless you're sheeting the walls with OSB, ply, or the like, and skinning over that with drywall.

Looks like the quote includes OSB on interior walls. Seems they call it Hard-Pressed Wood

 

[racecougar]

Looks like the quote includes OSB on interior walls. Seems they call it Hard-Pressed Wood

I think that's just for wainscoting that will run around the interior because there is another line item calling out drywall on the interior walls.

 

[manwithtools]

I think that's just for wainscoting that will run around the interior because there is another line item calling out drywall on the interior walls.

Only drywall line item I see is on the ceiling of enclosed area...

 

[racecougar]

Only drywall line item I see is on the ceiling of enclosed area...

 

[manwithtools]

Yep, totally missed that line item, thanks! But that is in addition to the afore mentioned OSB is it not?

 

[racecougar]

Yep, totally missed that line item, thanks! But that is in addition to the afore mentioned OSB is it not?

I think so. From what I'm reading into the quote, he's sheeting the interior walls with 1/2" drywall, then installing a lower wainscoting (potentially OSB) to protect the lower part of the walls.