My Garage Build

[DesertZuki]

I'm new to the board -- just introduced myself here.

09/09/06 - Yesterday, we just had the 40' truck trailer hauled off that was sitting where we are going to build the garage. (This made our neighbor and my wife really happy.) Hopefully we'll have the dirt work done within the week and the cement poured shortly afterwards. We're going to town tomorrow to order the trusses and get truss plans (for the permit).

Our plans thus far:
24'x24' with 12' walls. We decided on 12' walls because I hope to install a lift at some point in the future. The pad is going to be 4" thick with 3000 lb concrete and fiber-mesh re-inforcement. The footings are 18" deep and 12" wide (per code). It will have one garage door 16'x10', and one passenger door -- no windows. If the bid comes in low enough, we will pour a 16'x20' apron for a driveway, otherwise it will be gravel. The outside of the walls will be sheathed with T-1-11 to match the house. I'd like to finish the inside, but it doesn't look like money will permit that -- not right now anyway.

That's the start of it. There's much more of course; lighting, cabinets, workbenches, etc. The garage is being built mostly to wrench in but we will park two of the vehicles in there (maybe three with the lift). Projects permitting, we'll park the Grand Marquis and the Samurai in the garage. The Cherokee and my one-day project 67 F100 will have to sit outside.

The Samurai, ugly as it is, will go inside because we usually have the doors off. Also, I'm planning a walk-around steel workbench and it should fit in front of the Samurai. The Grand Marquis is a little big, but it's the nicest vehicle we have however, our kid is trying really hard to sell us his '03 Honda Civic si. That'd be nice because it'd take up less space in the garage.

I will update as we move along. If you see something I could do better, by all means, let me know.

WB

 

[REFLEXX]

Post up your sami pics! There's a thread to show off your 4x4.

 

[customperformance]

Build garage bigger than 24x24, it will be full in a hurry and you will wish you had gone bigger.

 

[DesertZuki]

Build garage bigger than 24x24, it will be full in a hurry and you will wish you had gone bigger.

You're absolutely right. I'm already wishing it was going to be bigger. We chose the 24'x24' size because the county requires a soils test for any structure over 600 square feet (even an awning). A soils test out here goes for $2000. Over 600 square feet and we have to pay for a grading plan too.

We really wanted bigger. I was perfectly willing to go into debt for a bigger garage. But this will have to do for now. I'm making it so we can add onto the front at a later time. Someday we could make it as big as 48'x24'.

 

[boiler7904]

Depending on how your site lays out, you might want to consider adding onto the side instead of the front. I would think it would be more functional to have 4 side by side bays than than 2 double deep bays.

 

[DesertZuki]

Depending on how your site lays out, you might want to consider adding onto the side instead of the front. I would think it would be more functional to have 4 side by side bays than than 2 double deep bays.

Agreed. The site doesn't allow us to add on sideways though.

 

[DesertZuki]

Post up your sami pics! There's a thread to show off your 4x4.

Done! Just a few pics here.

 

[DesertZuki]

09/14/06 - To make room for the garage we removed a tin shed and a palm tree.

And we started the pad:

09/15/06 - The pad is done. Less than 1/10 of a foot off between all the corners and the operator never broke out a level. I have probably 3' or more (depending on which corner) of base. This might be a little overkill, but our yard is all clay -- the kind of clay Indians used to build adobe houses out of -- my neighbor had one on his property.

09/17/06 - We set up the corners and started digging for the foundation. I borrowed my neighbor's backhoe with a 12" bucket for this. The first trench was pretty ugly. I've used the backhoe before and did a pretty good job, but I'm having to work the backhoe sideways and that had a some new challenges. We got started late and ran out of daylight, but with my wife spotting for me, the second trench looked pretty good.

The first problem we ran into was with the building dept. They won't let us have 12' walls without being engineered. Ten foot walls are okay, but not 12'. I took some time off from work to hopefully get the garage built and by the time we get an engineer to put his name on the plans (a mere $500) we'll be at least a week behind (poor planning on my part).

Option one then, would be give the engineer $500 and fall behind scedule. Option two will be using cement block for the foundation, building that foundation two feet over the pad, and putting 10' walls on top of the foundation. (We don't know if code will allow that either.) Option three will be just going with ten foot walls.

I wanted the 12' walls so I'd have room for a lift. After putting the vehicles on the pad and looking where the lift would go and how much room it would take up -- I'm not sure I want to put a lift in there. 24'x24' is pretty small anyway and the lift would eat up some cabinet/bench space on the near wall and would prevent parking the vehicles close together which would eat up benchtop and storage depth on the other wall. Maybe a scissor lift later... I don't know.

We'll find out tomorrow morning about the possibility of using block for a foundation.

 

[BoostAddiction]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but finding out about wall height rules while you are digging trenches is a really bad thing and indicative of planning that was insufficient.

You might consider the idea of just taking a month off to really plan the whole garage, including permits, engineering, etc and then resuming work. I am pretty sure you will find the process ultimately faster and cheaper.

In a previous life, I ran a lot of software development projects. Sometimes the programmers just wanted to hit the keyboards as soon as the project was announced, and occasionally (not on projects I ran) they did just that. Inevitably, the prjects that started with a big dose of planning ahead of time were finished sooner and at less cost. Quality was usually higher as well.

I suggest that building a garage is exactly like building software: both are management tasks, and both benefit from serious planning up front.

Not trying to be overly critical here, just suggesting that you think about your project and use basic project planning principles to reduce costs and increase quality, as well as time-to-completion.

-Will

 

[kyeakel]

09/17/06 - The first problem we ran into was with the building dept. They won't let us have 12' walls without being engineered. Ten foot walls are okay, but not 12'. I took some time off from work to hopefully get the garage built and by the time we get an engineer to put his name on the plans (a mere $500) we'll be at least a week behind (poor planning on my part).

Option one then, would be give the engineer $500 and fall behind scedule. Option two will be using cement block for the foundation, building that foundation two feet over the pad, and putting 10' walls on top of the foundation. (We don't know if code will allow that either.) Option three will be just going with ten foot walls.

I wanted the 12' walls so I'd have room for a lift. After putting the vehicles on the pad and looking where the lift would go and how much room it would take up -- I'm not sure I want to put a lift in there. 24'x24' is pretty small anyway and the lift would eat up some cabinet/bench space on the near wall and would prevent parking the vehicles close together which would eat up benchtop and storage depth on the other wall. Maybe a scissor lift later... I don't know.

We'll find out tomorrow morning about the possibility of using block for a foundation.[/QUOTE]


Why not just change the truss to vault the ceiling? The space from the lift to the wall can be sloped as it is usually unused when the lift is up anyway.

Kipp

 

[DesertZuki]

Why not just change the truss to vault the ceiling? The space from the lift to the wall can be sloped as it is usually unused when the lift is up anyway.Kipp

Good idea, but the truss plans are already done. We had to have them attached to the building plans.

 

[DesertZuki]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but finding out about wall height rules while you are digging trenches is a really bad thing and indicative of planning that was insufficient.

Understood. Why I said:

(poor planning on my part)

What I didn't tell you is that when we were planning this, on one of my wife's many trips to the building department, they told her if there was a problem with the plans, the changes could be written in and we'd still be able to get the permit within a day. They did write in the changes, but we're still waiting to hear from them. What they're telling us now is they became unindated with requests for permits when the weather cooled off.

You might consider the idea of just taking a month off to really plan the whole garage, including permits, engineering, etc

A month off for planning a 24' x 24' garage? Granted the walls were a surprise and we weren't planning on having engineering done for a small, square structure. And true I don't have all the details planned because even with measuring and planning using a 2D CAD program, I know things are going to be a going to be different off the paper.

I suggest that building a garage is exactly like building software: both are management tasks, and both benefit from serious planning up front.

I've never been a manager or been in management. I've never built anything bigger than a shed and I've never had to deal with a building department. I have talked to people that have (not managers; friends and neighbors -- those in construction in this county) and most of them seemed to be under the impression I was overplanning the garage and needed to get started building it.

Not trying to be overly critical here

Maybe I'm being a little thin-skinned, but you came across scathingly critical. If you would have wondered aloud how much planning I had done, you I would have told you we started planning about six months ago; garage placement, garage dimensions, steel structure or wood, contract out or build -- what to contract and what to build ourselves, walk around bench or adjacent to wall, wood bench -- wood bench with steel top -- or all steel, standard workbench height or taller than standard or combination of heights, tool storage, compressor on the inside or on the outside, compressor plumbing, concrete finish -- expansion joints or cuts -- seal/paint/epoxy, lighting, electrical conduit in the walls or exposed, ad nauseam... I read several books on garages and workshops as well.

I see your point but there's only a very few places (that I know of) that are as complex and restrictive as Clark County when it comes to building. It's not like I could read through volumes and volumes of code. (I guess I could, but once I was done, I'd have to start all over to catch up on all the changes that occurred during the months I was reading.) Or we could have payed an architect to draw up the plans and we'd still have to pay an engineer to stamp the plans anyway. (Come to think of it, the one architect we talked to didn't tell us there would be a problem with 12' walls.)

While I do appreciate constructive criticism, I don't see much in the way of 'constructive' in your criticism. That said, as critical and methodical as you seem to be, I wish like heck you were the project manager for the last software debacle we had to deal with at work!

 

[BoostAddiction]

Desertzuki,

I'm sorry you took my criticism as not constructive- I didn't mean it that way. Sometimes on the Internet tone can't be expressed as easily as in person. But I have do to admit that I was a little stunned to read about the wall issue at this stage of construction and perhaps that shaped the way I wrote my comment earlier.

I meant to be constructive by suggesting that planning is important, so that surprises -- like the ones you are seeing -- are minimized.

I just finished reading a book on owner-built homes ("The Owner-Builder Book", Mark & Elaine Smith) where the authors suggested that you should take at least nine months before you break ground to plan. Of course most garages aren't as complex as most homes, and I don't think a month is too much time to plan a garage. I enjoyed it (the book), and you might as well. It sounds like you spent some time thinking about the garage, and that's great. But I expect that more attention to the plans might have yielded better results. For perspective, I took several months to plan my garage makeover I did last summer, and it came in on budget and on-time; I'm pretty happy with it, overall.

I also know that the reality is that many homes and garages are built with little or no formal planning. But I guess the point I was trying to make was that in any kind of building process, whether building software or building homes or garages, good planning goes a long way. There are way too many people in my field who don't plan adequately. That's why so many software development projects (and even just implementation of existing products) fail so miserably, as one at your company may have. I see the same signs, and the same problems in the building trades. The first Tacoma Narrows bridge is the classic example of insufficient planning for wind loads as they actually worked on a bridge with decking like it had. Smaller projects rarely fail so publicly, but they can still run well over budget, fail to meet the real usage requirements, and fail to meet the state timelines.

You are right that you can't read the entire county building code- but you do likely have access to people who know it very well, like local builders and architects. You don't actually have to formally engage them to obtain the benefit of their experience-- often just talking to them and listening hard will yield a remarkable amount of information. Or you might even consider trying to get a good local person to let you pay them on an hourly basis to review plans (not just the blueprints) and bounce some ideas around.

Like everything, planning is something that should be done in the right amount, appropriate for the situation. I don't do any planning when I buy a pair of socks, for example, as the risk of failure is pretty low, and the total amount of money involved doesn't warrant much bandwidth from me. But when you are swinging a bigger bat (as in a garage build or major remodel), the circumstances are different, and serious planning is, IMO, a necessary thing, if only to prevent surprises. And one thing I've learned running a profitable business for 16 years is that surprises are usually expensive. In my case, planning is mostly a self-defense mechanism. Part of that is possibly personality, but a big part comes from the bruises and scars that were the result of not thinking hard enough early enough.

I know everyone on the forum hopes your project turns out well, especially me. Keep us posted!

-Will

 

[DesertZuki]

Thanks Boost. I appreciate the the input and all the time I know it took you to write that. That's constructive info there!

I thought we had all the bases covered. Our friends pour concrete for a living. My neighbor is a retired master electrician and, at one time, sat on every electrical board in the county. We have other friends that have a framing company and we were able to talk to their architect. And my wife is now on a first-name basis with at least one of the people at the building department.

Even so, you're definitely right. Our planning was deficient. We had considered hiring out the garage but that was devastating to the garage budget and, quite honestly, I wanted the experience of building because I hope to one day build a much larger garage and a house as well.

I will read the book you recommended before any of that occurs. When it comes time to build the dream garage and (hopefully) our last house, I don't want any surprises.

Thank you for the good words and the good wishes! I will keep the updates coming. For now, I'm back to the trenches before it gets to the predicted 94 degrees today.

Thanks again, Will.