My Garage Project 1

[oldmanscj7]

Just stumbled on this forum while searching for ideas for the garage I’m planning. This seemed like a good place to ask a few questions and get feed back as my project progresses.

I recently bought a 1.75 acre lot adjacent to my existing house where I will be building the garage and later a house. The property is located in Northern California foothills near Grass valley. For the garage I’m planning a 60’x40’ stick framed building with living space on the second floor loosely based on this plan: http://www.cadsmith.com/garage_plans/rv_garages/arv-3254.htm .
The garage will mostly be used for working on and storing cars and off-road vehicles. I may even get back into woodworking occasionally.

I am hoping to have the plans finalized and through the county by the end of May. I have a crew coming out next week to clear the brush and limb trees, my surveyor is coming out after that is done to give me a full survey of the property. Here are the preliminary layouts I have so far the first one I sketched in AutoCAD the other I did using Punch!Pro:
(Attachements)

The plans show a couple of posts but if costs allow I will attempt to free span the entire open area and remove the posts. I’m really having a hard time with the office/ bathroom placement while trying to maintain open space in the garage area. I kind of like the look of the plan drawn with the punch program but I think that the bathroom is too small. I will probably hire an architect to look over the plans and layout the garage and future house on the property to make the most of the space.

The high bay will be used as the “dirty” shop area where I would do most of my welding and fabricating. I’m thinking a polished concrete floor in the shop area. Garage area will probably have an epoxy floor of some type. Can anyone in the Sacramento, CA area recommend a good concrete coating company and polishing company?

Heating/cooling:
I really like the idea of in-slab radiant heating but I’m concerned that if I ever want to mount something to the floor or move the lift at a later date I won’t know where the heating pipes are located. I’m thinking about radiant in the garage area and Mr Heater type in the shop. I’ll defiantly insulate the slab, just not sure how yet. I designed a retrofit system for my current house and basement that seems to work great although the cost of propane is getting really expensive around here. I haven’t thought much about cooling yet.

Garage doors:
I am looking for some insulated roll-up doors but I may end up with panel to save costs. I’m hoping to find doors that really seal but there may not be such an animal.

Electrical:
I’ll be using 8’ fluorescents for lighting. Lots of 110 and 220 on all sides of the garage and shop. Full security/alarm system.

Air:
I’m currently thinking about putting the compressor under the stairs and doing my best to sound proof the walls around it. Air will be plumbed throughout the shop and garage with copper pipe.

I’ll probably be acting as the general contractor (I’m not a contractor) and hiring licensed subs to do most of the work as this project would take me years to finish on my own. I’ll probably leave the upstairs unfinished and do that work my self when I have time. Also since this is on a different lot than my house I have to install a new well, septic system, run dedicated power, cable, phone, and pay the county for an encroachment to the road.

Sorry for the long first post on this board. I guess I’m just looking for some advice criticism, encouragement, etc, as my wife said that if I talk to her about the garage again she is going to take my garage money and move to Fiji. Anyone want to make a bet on how much this will cost me? I’m working on my preliminary cost estimate this weekend.

 

[Bib Overalls]

Nice project. It will be hard to clear span the garage level with living space above. Have you considered the impact on your plumbing that relocating the utility/bathroom. The original design "stacked" the apartment bathroom over the utility room. Relocating the bathroom means another vent and some sort of closed in chase to bring the DWV down from above - most likely a 12" x 12" bump on the back wall. All very doable. But more expensive than the original plan. Open up a running update thread in the Gallary when you break ground. We love pictures!

 

[walt111]

Beautiful down town rough and ready. I had a shop there once, the fire dept now has possesion of the building. I live in penn valley and finally got my permit to build my shop last thursday. The only way to deal with this county is to get a contractor to get your permit for you. An added expense but I found it necessary. I hope your build goes well. A very nice looking building you have planed.
walt

 

[Jaguar Fan]

Search through the threads for insulating a slab & you'll get some good ideas.

 

[bluesman2a]

Welcome OldmanCJ7, from a fellow off-roader and Garage Junkie...

I am in the finishing stages of my build which is similar to yours though smaller. I started with an existing 25X25 so there were some things I had to do differently, but I understand where you are coming from about welding/fabricating. Check out my build thread/Gallery for some ideas. Based on your plan, a couple of things I would suggest:

http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/album59
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9617&highlight=skunkworks

1) Garage doors: I have a roll-up door (non-insulated). I had to do it for space/overhead clearance on my lift. Knowing now what I did NOT know then... I would not do it again. They rattle in the wind, and they do NOT seal well at all. I have a 4" gap at the top of the door and this is considered "normal" for these doors. Because of the way they are designed (drum is larger when open than when closed), they have to have some gap at the top. For my money, if I were to do it again, I would go with another insulated panel door. Also, on openers, don't waste your money on anything other than a liftmaster 3800 jackshaft opener. Once you see one in action, you'll never go back.

2) Lighting: I vastly prefer the 4' fixtures to the 8'ers. Buying, hanging the fixture, transporting, storing, and changing them is all much easier than with the 8's. On mine I went with the 4' t-8 fixtures with the 5000K bulbs and have been very happy with them.

 

[oldmanscj7]

It will be hard to clear span the garage level with living space above. Have you considered the impact on your plumbing that relocating the utility/bathroom. The original design "stacked" the apartment bathroom over the utility room. Relocating the bathroom means another vent and some sort of closed in chase to bring the DWV down from above - most likely a 12" x 12" bump on the back wall. All very doable. But more expensive than the original plan.

Bib, Good point about the upstairs plumbing, I’ll consider that while I’m doing the final layouts for the upstairs and the garage. I don’t really need or want such a large apartment upstairs since it is going to be more of an in-law quarters anyway. As for the span I’m pretty sure that I can design a system to span it, whether the cost of materials makes it worth it or not is another story. I’ll probably end up with the structural wall or posts at 26’-28’.

Beautiful down town rough and ready. I had a shop there once, the fire dept now has possesion of the building. I live in penn valley and finally got my permit to build my shop last thursday. The only way to deal with this county is to get a contractor to get your permit for you. An added expense but I found it necessary.

Walt, As for Nevada County I have drawn two other sets of house plans for friends and got them permitted so I do have some experience dealing with them. It’s defiantly not an easy process but it is doable on your own if you have the time (5 trips to the county building and 4 drawing revisions last time). Also, I’m a Civil Engineer so at least they think I know what I’m doing, even though I don’t do development work. I think that the septic is going to be the biggest hurtle, it’s not exactly ideal septic soil in the area where I want to put the shop. Did you have one of the shops where they’re going to build the new Fire station, or up by the existing one?

Attached is a picture of the area where the garage will be( about 100' beyond the power pole and 30 ' off of the road). Also are a couple of pictures from my house radinat heat retro fit and the panel just for fun.

 

[walt111]

where they are going to build the new fire house was my business (rough and ready auto service). I hate to see the building torn down. Where are you located?
walt

 

[oldmanscj7]

Bluesman- thanks for the thoughts, I’m defiantly going to consider the garage door issues carefully, and I really want something that seals up tight. Do you feel that your space is wide enough for the lift? I’m considering a bay about the same width as yours for my lift. Cool garage by the way, I’ll have to look closer when I’m not at work.

Walt-I’m about a mile up the road from R&R towards GV.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I don't pretend to be a structrual expert, but I did build a garage with living space over the top of it. My builder was able to get engineered trusses for a 28' deep garage that gave 14' of usable width upstairs. He told me that anything beyond that would involve supports or steel, but maybe he was limited by the truss supplier, I don't know.

The center line of my lift is 8.5' from the nearest garage wall...and that's about as close as you should put it if you want to be able to get all the way around the vehicle. The lift itself is 11.5 feet wide. My garage is "only" 38-feet wide. It has 3 9-foot wide, 10-tall doors. If I had it to do over, I'd have made it 42-feet wide and had room for 10-wide doors. 9' is REALLY tight on my 2008 Silerado. I have maybe 3 inches of clearance to the mirrors.

With a 13' foot ceiling, it worked out well to have 10' tall doors. This allowed me to use regular operators. My doors are insulated, and actually seal quite well.

On the lighting, go with as much as you think you will need and then double it. I have 19 four foot fixtures controlled by 2 switches. Each switch turns on every other fixture. It's like have a "dim" setting and a "bright" setting. I had a professional design my lighting. I'd highly reccomend that. They have software that will tell you how many CP you'll end up with in every square foot based on the lights, placement of the lights, and reflective surfaces.

Good Luck!

Phil

 

[bluesman2a]

Do you feel that your space is wide enough for the lift? I’m considering a bay about the same width as yours for my lift.

My lift bay is 18', on outside dimensions with 2X6 framing so it's 17' +/- wide inside dimensions. Length wise I'm about 24' inside, and it's fine for everything up to a long-bed dually. I can walk all the way around with ease.
If I had to do it again and had an option, I would have put an extra 12" on the inside width.

With a Rotary 10K assymetric, I have plenty of room on the sides, but make sure you mount the posts at least 2' FORWARD of the center-line of the bay.

Also as I mentioned in another thread recently, I would recommend getting a lift that is wide enough to accomodate a vehicle trailer (not sure if you trailer your junk or not). It sure is nice to be able to unload a trailer directly onto a lift if you need to.