My garage project

[kvom]

I have been thinking about building a standalone garage for a few years, ever since I started offroading and working on my own vehicles. At first I was looking around for some cheap, close-by land. However, there's nothing reasonable within 10 miles. After joining this site a short while ago and seeing what others are doing, I've decide to see what can be done about building next to my house.

I live in a subdivision with some fairly stringent covenants, so my first step was to contact our homeowner association's architecture committee to see what's possible. They just came over this morning to look at the house/lot and discuss what might or might not work. So far it's been very positive. One of the committee members is a realtor, and she said we really need it to make our house stand out from the others in the neighborhood. We should be able to get our money out of whatever we end up building (we will almost certainly be living here for another 8 years, until the younger daughter graduates highschool).

One of the committee members who was not able to come by today is an architect, and very familiar with both the community covenants and the county permitting issues. So the next stage will be for him to get together with us and discuss the options.

I'm looking to build a 2-story structure with an attached in-law apartment and as large a garage as fits within a budget of around $100K. The front facing the street will need to be brick trim to match the house, but otherwise I will probably use hardyplank for the exterior walls.

Once I get some plans and approvals I'll try to post some progress photos on this thread.

 

[kvom]

Today I drove down to Norcross to visit the Greg Smith Equipment warehouse, and to get schooled on lifts.

Assuming I can get a 12' ceiling height it would seem that a two post asymetric lift would be the best choice. Since my truck weighs about 7200 pounds unloaded I'm guessing that a 9K lift capacity would be the minimum I should look for.

 

[kvom]

Downloaded Google sketchup and did a rough design, enough for my architect to comment on anyway. Approx dimensions are 30' wide by 35' deep. Two 10x10' garage doors with 13' ceilings on both bays. 9' ceiling on upstairs office/apartment. The apartment will be in the upstairs back with storage on the front half of upstairs.

Front cladding in brick to match the house, other three sides will be either Hardieplank or stucco.

 

[kvom]

I heard back from the architect, and will set up a meeting on Monday. Excited to get started (I had to make an unexpected trip out of town this past week).

A friend of mine can do the site prep, and another friend can do the framing. Since our house roofing needs to be replaced in the next year anyway, I will have the same shingles installed on both the house and garage.

 

[GarageFreak]

Very nice start kvom. I know what you mean about covenants and restrictions!! Sometimes you have to give up a little to live in a nice subdivision....and that's when I wish I lived out in the sticks somewhere that no one would care!!!

 

[kvom]

I met with a local architect who is on the HOA committee. He suggested that I might be able to attach the garage to one corner of the house in order to get maximum width. However, he didn't know the county setback requirements to be able to state what that would give me. He also said that the roof needs to slope front to back rather than side to side at the entrance. I will try to workup another sketchup drawing showing his thoughts.

So this morning I'm off to the local county planning department where I find that the side setback requirement is 10'. I measured from the property line to where my driveway ends and that is 8'; so if the entry to the garage were to be at the current end of the pavement I have 26' to the side of the house. I couldn't attach it there because of vents, electric meter, etc., so with a 3' walkway I could have an exterior width of ~23'. The advantage of a detached garage here is that it could be fairly deep without cutting down a nice maple tree in back yard.

The side of the house is at an angle to the property line, so moving the front back 10' or so would allow a few extra feet of width, but would likely mean cutting down the tree to get 35' depth. It also means a few hundred square feet more of paving needed.

The other wrinkle from the county is that an "accessory structure" is limited to 1000 square feet of "finished" floor space. Apparently the definition of finished means drywall and heat/AC. So if my ground floor garage is 800 ft2, the upper story is limited to 200. OTOH if the garage were attached to the house by a common wall then there is no limitation --- it's just an addition.

I'm now thinking that the major stumbing block / decision point will be how hard/easy it will be to connect the structure to the sewer. The connection pipe into the house is about 8' under the front lawn a goodly distance from the garage. I don't know if it would be possible to connect drains to the piping in the house through a common wall. So a lot of my decision will be based on having a plumber look at the site and let me know what can be done.

I'm away from home until Monday, so I guess the next step is having my builder friend get in touch with his plumbing sub.

 

[kvom]

Rough sketchup of current idea.

 

[twostory]

I would build the two story structure you show in you first sketch with the roof of the second sketch. As for the 1,000 sqft limit, that easy, just do not finish off the second floor. Call it storage, no heat/ac & no dry wall.

Finish off the first floor. Then after the CO is issued the county inspector gone, you could improve you "storage area".

 

[bluesman2a]

Then after the CO is issued the county inspector gone, you could improve your "storage area".

You would be A-MAZED at the "improvements" we've "managed" to come up with after my CO was issued and the power was connected.

 

[kvom]

Some unexpected progress this evening. The architect with the HOA committee came by with his builder; apparently he decided he has time to work on the plans for this project. In addition, the builders determined that they could hook the garage plumbing to the house's sewer/water, so now the operational plan is to attach the garage to a common wall. This also means that I can get approx 27' front width. The roofline will be quite a bit more complicated than my simple drawing.

Assuming the plans are completed within the next week, we can get the HOA approval and the building permits, then the site prep can begin within the next two weeks. The builder estimates that completion once the slab is done would be 3-4 weeks.

Having the building attached to the house means that the sq-ft restrictions on finished space won't apply. There is apparently a requirement in this county that living space above a garage needs to have a sprinkler system, so that will be an extra cost item.

 

[kvom]

New wrinkle: the way the HOA covenants read is that houses in my section must have a side entry garage. Since I have a side-entry already, my architect and I will argue that the new front-entry doesn't contravene the covenants. In any case, there is a house with a front-entry 3 lots down the street, and quite a few others within walking distance. I'm assuming that the community developer allowed these builds because of the size/shape of the lots; in any case the developer controlled the HOA until the community was completely built out a couple of years ago. Given that every house on a corner lot has their garage doors facing one of the streets makes the restriction a bit silly in any case. And all of the houses in a lower-priced section of the community just a few hundred yards away have front-entry garages.

My architect will be presenting a front elevation drawing to the HOA board Tuesday night, hoping for sign off on the project. If they deny the proposal I'm not sure if there is any way to appeal. There is not really a way to build a side-entry that doesn't block off half of the windows in the rear of the house.

 

[HiHoSilver]

Very nice start kvom. I know what you mean about covenants and restrictions!! Sometimes you have to give up a little to live in a nice subdivision....and that's when I wish I lived out in the sticks somewhere that no one would care!!!

kvom,
nice plan... sounds like you will have a lot work to do before you even break ground.....can not wait to see pictures of progress....good luck....keep us posted,

garagefreak......I live out in the sticks compared to most people, I am 17 miles from a small town.... it is nice but it does have its draw backs.
Some nice points....no one cares what you do....our house sits in the middle of 4 acres surrounded by trees...private!!!
NO FREAKIN HOME OWNERS ASSOCIATION telling me what I can and can not do.
Now for some down sides...Have to drive far to get to everything.....closest store...5 miles....have to drive by some less than ideal areas ......

and yes we do have all public utilities... lol

 

[Bib Overalls]

Good luck with the HOA. In some ways I wish we had one here. We built in a subdivision with restrictions (covenants) in the recorded bills of assurance (deeds). But without a HOA there is no way of enforcing the restrictions short of one agreeved party taking the other to court. And no one is going to do that in this neck of the Wild West. The original developer went bankrupt and died. And all but a few of the worst lots have been sold. The bank that holds title to them has an agent who is only interested in selling. So, the result is a road that is not paved (a bankruptcy legacy), and a lot of nonconforming structures. The good news is that no one bitched when I put up my 30' x 40' shop. And no one gets excited when my grass goes an extra week without mowing. Even so, a HOA would be worth the agrivation if that would make a difference with the road and the worst cases of noncompliance.

 

[kvom]

I have no real issues with the HOA, now that it's controlled by the homeowners and not the developer. We have 1200 homes with nice streets and mostly nicely kept yards. I intend to build something that looks good and improves the value of my home. We expect to be here at least another 8 years, which is when my youngest would be off to college.

Even with a HOA it's hard to enforce things like upkeep and unmown lawns. The only remedy is levying fines which are a lien against the property. Going to court is a losing proposition even with a HOA.

The house is built on a slab, hence no basement. That's a disadvantage when the time comes to sell, so having a storage area and extra garage parking should offset that issue.

 

[kvom]

Turns out we just had to have the architecture committee, not the full HOA board, approve the initial front elevation sketch in order to move forward. I have attached the sketch provided by the architect. He will come over to take some more detailed measurements, and then I should have front and side elevations and floor plans in a few weeks.

I won't get full ceiling heights everywhere; there will be a slope up from the door openings, but I will have 13' in most places, so the 2-post lift won't be an issue. I wanted a single 9x20' door, but have to settle for 2 9x10s.

 

[bluesman2a]

I wanted a single 9x20' door, but have to settle for 2 9x10s.

Three thoughts here:
1) I would not recommend a 9' door. If you go up to a 10' tall door, you have the option to leave your Jeep on the trailer OR back the trailer into the bay so you can off-load directly to the lift. I've already run into this several times.

2) I would not do a 10' wide door again. It's too narrow for a full-sized truck, and if you're putting a trailer in, there's only 3-4" on either side.

3) When you go for your lift, get one wide enough to accomodate your trailer (including tires/fenders) between the posts/arms.

 

[kvom]

Three thoughts here:
1) I would not recommend a 9' door. If you go up to a 10' tall door, you have the option to leave your Jeep on the trailer OR back the trailer into the bay so you can off-load directly to the lift. I've already run into this several times.

2) I would not do a 10' wide door again. It's too narrow for a full-sized truck, and if you're putting a trailer in, there's only 3-4" on either side.

3) When you go for your lift, get one wide enough to accomodate your trailer (including tires/fenders) between the posts/arms.

Not sure if the 10' is just what the architect put in, or some real limit. I measured the Jeep on the trailer and it will just fit under a 9" opening. My truck is 84" between the mirrors, so it will go in. The trailer is wider, so I'll need to measure.

Good point on the lift. The model I'm looking at has an option for a longer top bar.
.

 

[kvom]

I had a meeting with the architect this morning to do some "final" measurements.

We decided that the outer dimensions will be 26' wide by 36' deep. 3.5' at the rear will be taken by the stairway leading to the 2nd floor. The garage ceiling will be 13' except for the front 9' which will be 11' (allowing for structural support for the front dormer).

The upper floor will have 9' ceiling across most of the width; there will be shed dormers on both sides.

Since the architect and we will be away for Spring break next week, the plans probably won't be ready for another 3 weeks.

 

[kvom]

Still waiting on the drawings, but some good news anyway. I called the local EMC to discuss additional electrical service for the garage. Seems the underground feeder supports 400A, but our house currently has 200A service. The county won't allow a second meter, but it seems that by replacing the main exterior breaker to 400A and running a second entry cable to a panel in the garage, it will work. Then the only thing the EMC has to do then is replace the meter with one that handles 400A.

 

[bluesman2a]

Still waiting on the drawings, but some good news anyway. I called the local EMC to discuss additional electrical service for the garage. Seems the underground feeder supports 400A, but our house currently has 200A service. The county won't allow a second meter, but it seems that by replacing the main exterior breaker to 400A and running a second entry cable to a panel in the garage, it will work. Then the only thing the EMC has to do then is replace the meter with one that handles 400A.

Not quite accurate all the way through... This may help.

1) See my attached/detached/breezeway saga in my build thread. It's actually pretty easy to get a variance to have a second meter on the same structure... At least it was in Gwinnett county.

2) You have to replace more than just the exterior meter/breaker. You'll have to replace the entire meter-base, rewire the feeder into the house panel, and put in a second exterior breaker for the extra box. The good news is that all this stuff is easily/readily available at lowes/HD. If you look at some of the pics of my setup, it'll look much like your finished product, except it'll have one box in your house and one in the shop, instead of two side by side like my shop.

3) When you go to buy your electrical boxes, REALLY look at them. I chose the Square-D QO series. Stay away from their homeline ****. Others here have also recommended Siemens and/or Cutler-Hammer as well.

 

[kvom]

Thanks for the feedback, Herb.

1) The EMC engineer told me that the reason against 2 meters is that in case of fire, the firemen want to know that when they cut the power it's cut everywhere. In my case the two meters/breakers would be side by side, so perhaps it's possible. In any case the electrician I choose for the project should be able to advise which way to go.

2) It's probable that the engineer I spoke with on the phone was simplifying the process for me.

3) I won't have as many breakers as you, but the new panel will go into the new garage. My current panel is completely full, and is some distance away from the addition.

When you say electrical boxes, I assume you mean those for the outlets that are nailed to the studs.

 

[PAToyota]

I went with the setup you are basically describing, KVOM. I had 200amp service into my house when I started. I upgraded the meter and base to a C320 meter and base, which then splits to two 200amp panels - the existing one in the house and a new one in the workshop. They did require a 200amp disconnect up at the house for the workshop - which is actually sort of nice because I can cut all power to the shop from the house.

 

[kvom]

We had a meeting with the architect this afternoon to review the plans. Made a few changes, and should have drawings for solicting bids in the next week. Main changes:

1) Doors are now back to 10' high
2) Added second door to back yard, replacing a window
3) We can cut a 4'x4' door from my daughters' upstairs bedroom into the garage apartment. Could be a fun feature for kids. It will need a small ladder/steps as the apartment floor is 4' higher than the house floor.

 

[kvom]

We had the second plan review last night.

I was informed that the local code forbids having an entrance door from a garage into a bedroom. My planned door would be from the garage into a room that serves as my office. Since it has a closet, it is considered a bedroom by the permits agency. Without the door, I would need to go outside in order to get to the garage from the house.

One "alternative" would be to close off the closet, but I use it for storage. So for now we are removing the door from the plans. Once I have the CO we can think about adding the door later.

Should have plans and copies later today, and will start soliciting bids from local builders. I will be glad to get started.

 

[porschedude996TT]

Looks like you are about reach the first major milestone! Good for you. I bet you can you get away with putting the door header in the wall after the framing and electrical inspection just prior to drywall. That way you will only need to cut the opening and pull one stud and drop in the pre-hung door.

 

[kvom]

That gives me an idea. I bet we could actually install the door and cover the opening with drywall. Then cut through and install the moulding, threshhold, and hardware afterwards.

 

[kvom]

I went to visit the local county permitting agency today to get the lowdown on the process. The good news is that the only "rules" they enforce in issuing the permit is the setbacks and that the builder be registered in the county. The builder will get the permit, and must supply affadavits on each of his contractors.

The builder also needs to get a permit for a temporary toilet.

That said, there are approximately 6 inspections during the build. Framing, rough electrical, rough plumbing, final electrical, final plumbing, and CO.

Talking to my first builder (a personal friend) tomorrow. My architect thinks the project will cost $100K, since I have a wish list as long as my arm. We'll see what the estimates look like. Since my house needs a new roof, and since the garage needs the same shingles as the house, I will have them done at the same time. Now the wife thinks we should repave the driveway at the same time too.

We are going to do all of the painting as well as the upstairs flooring.

 

[5wndwcpe]

That gives me an idea. I bet we could actually install the door and cover the opening with drywall. Then cut through and install the moulding, threshhold, and hardware afterwards.

That's what I was going to suggest.

 

[kvom]

Not too much progress since the last post. I gave copies of the plans to two builders in order to get quotes, and haven't heard from either in over 10 days. I wonder how long it takes to form a bid for a garage?

I did have some minor flak from the HOA. Seems a couple of the neighbors got in an uproar; you would think that having lived amicably in the same neighborhood for 15 years they would just have come to me with questions. But no, they had to write to the HOA. So in the end I was requested to show the plans to pair of neighbors who live on the side of the new garage, and also to the ones facing the back. I did have a reasonable discussion with the side neighbors; the ones in the back won't even be able to see the addition as the property line is lined with 30+ feet Leland cypress trees. They are on a cruise in any case. Despite the hiccups we are still good to go once I can get a handle on costs.

I have definitely decided on hydronic heating for both floors. Costs for PEX tubing, pumps, thermostats, valves, manifold, looks to be about $3800 shipped. Doesn't include the water heater and cost to plumb/install.

I would also like to put a shake hardener on the slab, but I can't seem to get a price/delivery quote from the local supplier.

I am back to 11x10 doors, and will be using the Liftmaster jackshaft openers.

We will be out of town for a couple of weeks starting June 15, so I was hoping to get the site prep and slab poured before then. I don't want them to do work when I'm not here. If I can't get any progress from the builder in the next few days I won't start until the first of July, it seems.

This picture shows the end of the driveway; the garage starts about a foot past the small windows in the side:

It now seems that I CAN have a door into the house from the garage, as long as it's a steel fire door rather than a wooden door.

 

[kvom]

After what seems an interminable delay, I finally have some motion on the project. I am going to be acting as general contractor, with my builder acting as sub to me. Doing this will reduce the total cost by close to $10K. I am still waiting for final estimates, but it looks to come in at around $110K for the builder's part, plus another $20K for stuff he's not responsible for.

I was considering installing the drywall myself and saving $5K or so, but all of my friends tell me they would rather walk through hell than hang drywall. So that is out. I will be doing all of the interior paint, plus hardwood floor upstairs.

Up until recently I was going to do hydronic heat on the upstairs via tuning between the joists. However I think I will be going with a heat pump, as an AC-only unit is not much less than one that both heats and cools. I'm still waiting on prices for the AC --- looks as if the "Mr. Slim" unit from Mitsubishi is what I need, as the upstairs area is only about 550 square feet.

Today I went to the building dept. to verify what I need to submit to get the permits, which will cost about $600. Then I paid $100 for the permit to install a porta-potty on my property. Got a surveyor coming this afternoon or tomorrow to measure the front right corner of where the garage will be, a spot which is right at the build line.

Looks like we might break ground in the next 2-3 weeks.

 

[kvom]

Yet more "issues". I don't want to use drywall on the garage walls, but talking to one of the inspectors yesterday it seems that the upstairs apartment needs "separation" for fire protection. Normally that would requite 1/2" or thicker drywall (or equivalent) on both the garage ceiling and all bearing walls (essentially all of them). I spoke to another inspector today, and not it appears that in Georgia a sprinkler system meets the separation requirement. So now it seems I will have 9 sprinker heads on the ceiling and plywood all around.

Got a second bid on the job, and his concrete guy is coming out to look at the site tomorrow.

 

[PAToyota]

Personally, I'd think that 5/8" fire-rated gypsum board would be less hassle and expense than a sprinkler. As for finishing drywall, after doing more of it myself than I'd ever care to if given the option again I've decided that one of these is the only way to go:

The rotary sanding head makes short, easy work of getting a smooth finish and the vacuum ***** up nearly all the dust.

 

[stricht8]

Do you not like the look of drywall? You could always drywall and then cover over with wood or whatever. This is a much cheaper alternative than a sprinkler system. Also, if you have a sprinkler systen you might need and would certainly want a central fire alarm system so that if a sprinkler head were to go off the fire dept will be there shortly to turn the water off so that you don't have excessive water damage. There is also a maintenance expense for yearly monitoring of the fire alarm, quarterly maintenance on the sprinkler system and 2 dedicated phone lines for the fire alarm system. On the other hand you will never feel safer. It might not cost all that much more to sprinkle the entire house.

Yet more "issues". I don't want to use drywall on the garage walls, but talking to one of the inspectors yesterday it seems that the upstairs apartment needs "separation" for fire protection. Normally that would requite 1/2" or thicker drywall (or equivalent) on both the garage ceiling and all bearing walls (essentially all of them). I spoke to another inspector today, and not it appears that in Georgia a sprinkler system meets the separation requirement. So now it seems I will have 9 sprinker heads on the ceiling and plywood all around.

Got a second bid on the job, and his concrete guy is coming out to look at the site tomorrow.

 

[PAToyota]

Actually, covering over the drywall with flammable materials may put you right back into needing the sprinkler system. But stricht8 has valid points about the maintenance required for a sprinkler system.

 

[kvom]

I still need to get a price for the sprinker heads and plumbing. I don't really want to do drywall labor if I can avoid it; hanging wood is easier and allows easier attachment of benches and cabinets to the walls. It's also more resistant to damage from bumpring by vehicles or tools.

And no attaching the wood to the studs does not mean I also need drywall. The Georgia exemption to code 309.2 was made especially for situations like mine.

Since the garage water supply and hence the sprinker is attached to the house water supply, I can turn that off myself via a valve inside the house.

I am getting my second estimate for site prep/concrete/framing/upstairs drywall today, and hopefully can come to a decision and get started by early next week (at last!)

 

[Kevin54]

I was considering installing the drywall myself and saving $5K or so, but all of my friends tell me they would rather walk through hell than hang drywall.

I don't really want to do drywall labor if I can avoid it; hanging wood is easier and allows easier attachment of benches and cabinets to the walls.

I'd much rather hang drywall than finish drywall. Drywall is also a little more forgiving if you make a mistake. It's cheaper to replace than wood if a mistake is made, it's cheaper than wood initially, if you know where your studs are ahead of time and keep it wrote down on paper, then hanging cabinets is a breeze. Your corners and such can have slight gaps when initially hung. The drywall finisher takes care of all of the little things. When you cut around outlets, you can do it a couple of different ways. You can punch out the box openings with a drywall punch made for that application, you can use a drywall saw, or you can go around with a rotozip. The guy that hung mine, did a 20x20 room in less than a day. Walls, ceiling, around posts, and I don't remember how many outlets, boxes etc. But the finishing is a different story. THEY make it look easy. When it comes to that, I'd stroll through hell too.

 

[stricht8]

True that you could turn the water off to the sprinkler system yourself but if you are not home and a sprinkler head goes off, then what? It will continue to sprinkle water at 18 gallons per minute indefinitely. That is why you need to have a monitored fire alarm system. As soon as a head goes off the pressure difference and flow in the pipes automatically sets off the fire alarm. The fire dept will be there in a few minutes. Another thing is that if they don't have a key to your house they will break the door down to get in. That is why you will need a lock box where you place your house key to which only the fire dept has a master key. Check out www.knoxbox.com If your main water line to your house is not wide enough you will not be able to hook it up to your home water supply and you will be required to install huge storage tanks for the water. We are talking about at least one maybe up to three or four of those 250 gallon oil tanks (which will hold water). Believe me a sprinkler system is no fun. Don't ask how I know! As far as putting wood over drywall, you can still do it. It doesn't matter that it is flammable because the 5/8" firerock underneath it has a 1 hr fire rating. That is all that matters.

I still need to get a price for the sprinker heads and plumbing. I don't really want to do drywall labor if I can avoid it; hanging wood is easier and allows easier attachment of benches and cabinets to the walls. It's also more resistant to damage from bumpring by vehicles or tools.

And no attaching the wood to the studs does not mean I also need drywall. The Georgia exemption to code 309.2 was made especially for situations like mine.

Since the garage water supply and hence the sprinker is attached to the house water supply, I can turn that off myself via a valve inside the house.

I am getting my second estimate for site prep/concrete/framing/upstairs drywall today, and hopefully can come to a decision and get started by early next week (at last!)

 

[stricht8]

Yeah, hanging drywall ***** *ss!

I'd much rather hang drywall than finish drywall. Drywall is also a little more forgiving if you make a mistake. It's cheaper to replace than wood if a mistake is made, it's cheaper than wood initially, if you know where your studs are ahead of time and keep it wrote down on paper, then hanging cabinets is a breeze. Your corners and such can have slight gaps when initially hung. The drywall finisher takes care of all of the little things. When you cut around outlets, you can do it a couple of different ways. You can punch out the box openings with a drywall punch made for that application, you can use a drywall saw, or you can go around with a rotozip. The guy that hung mine, did a 20x20 room in less than a day. Walls, ceiling, around posts, and I don't remember how many outlets, boxes etc. But the finishing is a different story. THEY make it look easy. When it comes to that, I'd stroll through hell too.

 

[kvom]

Applied for the building permit today and paid the fees. Permit will be ready Wednesday.

Seems this county is extremely strict on counting overhangs with respect to build lines, so the slab will need to be poured very carefully. I might end up with a garage a foot narrower than planned. Applying for a variance is a 2-month long process.

 

[kvom]

Got the build underway at last

Hope to finish forms on Monday, inspection Tuesday, concrete Wednesday.