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My journey with Surfkoat

Wantsalotta

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Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
10
Hi guys, long time lurker, new member. I have enjoyed learning from other people's trials and tribulations here, and thought I'd share my own struggles, and hopefully someday, triumphs.

My journey starts last September, when my wife found a parcel of land adjacent to our subdivision, that was something we could afford. I am an avid sportsman, and spend many days in a tree chasing whitetail with archery gear every year. I had always wanted to live on acreage, with no houses around. She has always wanted to be in a subdivision with neighbors to socialize with and kids for our two young boys to play with. When we found this land (45 acres) and a buildable lot overlooking it, in the neighborhood, it was a no brainier to sell our existing home and build new. We chose a modest ranch with exposed basement. I am a mechanic by trade (Master VW tech, have worked on VW for 15 years) so my old 2 car 21*21 garage was never sufficient for my wants. We built as large a garage as the wedge shaped lot would allow us to, while still maintining appropriate grade in the neighborhood grading plan, and have a full exposure basement. The garage ended up being 34 feet wide, and 35 feet deep, with 18 foot section only being 30 feet deep, where the garage is connected to the house. I opted to add a floor drain, rough plumbing for a future sink, dedicated 100 amp electrical service. I went with 13' 2x6 walls, to allow a full lift to be installed. The floor is 8" concrete slab, with rebar on chairs, and fiber mesh, just because we could.

I did Rust-Oleum floor epoxy on my last garage floor, we lived in the house 7 years, and the floor did not hold up. There was no hot tire pickup, or delamination of any sort, it simply wore away in the high traffic areas. I was not happy with that. Somewhere in my search for a more resilient floor, I came across Metallicfx from Sika. I was in love. I do custom fishing rods, and do some wild paint jobs on them, in custom dyed two part epoxies, so I knew I could make a floor look good. An exhaustive search and multiple phone calls, and I found no where that I could buy Sika products direct, they only sell to businesses. More searching of Metallic floors led me to finding Someone. Specifically thier hp250 epoxy, with metallic color packs. Again, abrasion test specs looked good, as well as chemical resistance. The finish product has the ability to look amazing, according to what I found on the internet. I was able to find an online distributor of the product, and proceeded to order a 3 gallon kit, and a sample of all the available colors. We did some color testing, and settled on midnight blue, royal blue, and pearl white, to all be marbled together. The specified primer for this system is Surfkoat 1040 what water based 40 percent solids epoxy. I chose to tint this black, as a solid dark color always works better when I am painting rods. I also decided to paint the curb around my garage floor black with this material.

We had everything planned and prepared, the day we closed on the house, we were ready to go on the garage floor, with 10 days time allotted between closing, and the moving in party. The day before we closed, the floor was diamond ground, and a simple moisture test was performed, with no moisture on the floor, or the plasti, after 24 hours. Plan was 3 days for 3 coats...primer, metallic body, and clear coat. We put the primer down, and everything went great. 16 hours later, we we're in the recoat window time frame, and went ahead and marbled the floor. My help and I hung around for 2 hours having a few cold one's and appreciating our beautiful work. I came back 5 hours after the marbled colors were put down, to remove the masking from under all 3 garage doors. To my horror, there were some bubbles forming. Lots of bubbles. The material was already tacky, almost not tacky any longer. It was too late to try and walk on the floor in spikes and pop the bubbles. My only choice was to wait it out and see what comes of the finished product. Next day, after work, we find a beautiful blue floor, with great gloss, covered in bubbles that ranged from the size of peas, to silver dollars. Back and forth with the distributor, and manufacturer, and the determination by them was that the concrete was off gassing, that thier water based epoxy should have been put down in more coats to fully seal the concrete. Thier directions specify 1 coat. The manufacturer refused to take any responsibility, the distributor however, agreed to sell me some additional product at a discount. The directions from the distributor, in order to obtain the functionality I wanted (smooth, easy to clean floor) were to sand the entire floor, and fill each individual bubble with a small amount of epoxy, monitor for bubbling, sand and refill any bubbles that reformed, and repeat until the concrete was fully sealed, then clear coat the entire floor. We sanded the floor to 50 grit, and spent hours meticulously filling each bubble hole with a syringe. When all bubble holes were finally done off gassing, the floor was finally ready for a clear coat. (3 weeks have elpased at this point, we are moved into the house, all garage tools and toys are in a rented storage unit). Yesterday we clear coated the entire floor a final time. I woke up this morning to inspect the floor, and found bubbles randomly dispersed throughout the floor. There are bubbles formed now, where there were no bubbles in the previous coats, which tells me the material itself is creating the games and capturing them. I am facing a cold front sweeping through our area tomorrow, the weather is no longer going to be warm enough to work with 2 part epoxy, so the floor will have to be good enough for now. I'll add pictures as soon as I learn how to.
 
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Wantsalotta

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Oct 23, 2017
Messages
10
I will take current pictures of the floor when I get home from work today.
 

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katilicous

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Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
86
Location
Laguna Niguel
It looks amazing, bubbles and all. Great colors and the bubbles look like they were done on purpose and my offer some traction when the floor is wet bc epoxy floors wet are slippy.

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Wantsalotta

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Oct 23, 2017
Messages
10
It looks amazing, bubbles and all. Great colors and the bubbles look like they were done on purpose and my offer some traction when the floor is wet bc epoxy floors wet are slippy.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Thanks! I do love the color and effect on the floor. I did add 60 grit size polycarbonate beads offered by surfkoat, to the final clear, but they did not add any appreciable texture that I can see. I have not walked on the floor yet, to tell for sure. It sure looks like it will be slippery when wet.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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Jun 7, 2010
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deerfield, IL
Looks great. However this comment "There are bubbles formed now, where there were no bubbles in the previous coats, which tells me the material itself is creating the games" is very unlikely.

Bubbles are a field-install issue. Could be moisture, could be mixed too aggressively, could be sunshine beating on the floor while curing, could be a draft blowing on the floor while curing. Something was off and if you go back through your steps you might find the answer.
 
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Wantsalotta

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Oct 23, 2017
Messages
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Looks great. However this comment "There are bubbles formed now, where there were no bubbles in the previous coats, which tells me the material itself is creating the games" is very unlikely.

Bubbles are a field-install issue. Could be moisture, could be mixed too aggressively, could be sunshine beating on the floor while curing, could be a draft blowing on the floor while curing. Something was off and if you go back through your steps you might find the answer.
Is supposed to say is creating the fumes. I mixed each batch with a drill mixer, on low speed, for 5 minutes, without inducing any air into the mix. 2 of 3 garage doors were closed, and the 3rd was closed behind us as we worked our way out the door. There was certainly no drafts. Ambient temps were 64 degrees. It was cool, overcast, even intermittent light rain outdoors, yesterday. And we did the metallic coat evening into night, there was no sunshine on the exterior of the building, much less causing issues through the roof and walls. I wouldn't think moisture in the floor can be an issue, and if it were, the bubbles would reform over the old bubble marks. Material was done being squeegeed out, and backrolled 23 minutes after mixing began, so I don't think rolling too late into pot life was an issue. Rolling was done slowly and evenly with 18" Wooster epoxy glide rollers.

After seeing the floor in daylight today, and being able to walk around on it, I am slightly less displeased with it. It looks amazing if you don't scrutinize it.

I think this picture might illustrate what I am saying. The dark round dots are the bubbles that occurred in the metallic coat, with were then individually back filled with epoxy. The bubbles visible in the surface do not even close to coincide with the bubbles in the last coat. This to me, rules out an issue with the slab or prep. The metallic coat is on the floor pretty thick (20 gallons of material over approx 1000 Sq feet.) There is no way the slab is off gassing through that material, anywhere except the old existing bubble holes, which some left a crater all the way to the black primer. After looking closer today, the bubbles mostly occured in the area of the garage we started in, which is where we used the remainder of the material we had initially ourchased. We used more than anticipated doing the metallic coat, and had to purchase another 15 gallons to do the clear coat. It is my belief after noticing this, that the first batch of epoxy we got had something wrong with it.
 

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LegacyIndustrial

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"even intermittent light rain outdoors"
This might be it.

Even the high threat of rain can deposit micro droplets of moisture onto the floor.
So small you cannot see them. Very important to wipe your floor before re-coating with denatured alcohol on a micro-fiber pad. We do this regularly, just in case.

After doing this for near 30 years, you realize that things (especially bubbles) don't happen "just because". There is almost always a reason and the great majority of these reasons start and end at the job-site.
 
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Wantsalotta

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Oct 23, 2017
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There are large areas of the floor, especially the area where the new 15 gallon kit was used, that are virtually flawless. That's what my first two pictures here show. And I think the overall picture shows a pretty remarkable end product. However, for the large amount of money spent on this project, and the hours of planning and prep, I did not anticipate so many flaws in the finish! The two people that assisted me in install are professional hardwood floor guys, and both have experience in doing gym floors, which get installed in pretty much the same manner. Poly even behaves pretty close to the same, I believe. These guys gets multiple thousand square foot poly floors down with 0 bubbles on the finish. And they are baffled as to what went wrong as well.
 

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Wantsalotta

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Oct 23, 2017
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"even intermittent light rain outdoors"
This might be it.

Even the high threat of rain can deposit micro droplets of moisture onto the floor.
So small you cannot see them. Very important to wipe your floor before re-coating with denatured alcohol on a micro-fiber pad. We do this regularly, just in case.

After doing this for near 30 years, you realize that things (especially bubbles) don't happen "just because". There is almost always a reason and the great majority of these reasons start and end at the job-site.

My wife was so gracious as to let us use her Norwex microfiber hardwood floor mop/duster that was brand new, for the floors in the new house, as a final step after sanding the floor. This is after sweeping multiple times, and vacuuming it for 3 hours with the Dyson.
 

katilicous

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May 20, 2017
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Location
Laguna Niguel
Wantsalotta, Epoxy is tricky a bit. I have Legacy's back on this one and since you had multiple bubble coats, my guess is that although you were mixing t the right speed it was either the wrong type of mixer or you weren't standing facing the West at high noon with one leg pointed in the same direction your mixer was turning the epoxy. Bubbles are always user error. I know this because I had an epoxy bubbletastrophe myself and then read everything written about them so it wouldn't happen in the next coat, which it didn't but I had fisheyes in the next coat and then on and on every coat went. I have a beautiful floor full of character that is 7 layers thick. It could have been 100 things that caused the bubbles but unfortunately all of them are your fault. Lol. Here's my bubble floor. I gotta do a write up on the entire disaster one day. It came out perfect...

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
 
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Wantsalotta

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Oct 23, 2017
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Wantsalotta, Epoxy is tricky a bit. I have Legacy's back on this one and since you had multiple bubble coats, my guess is that although you were mixing t the right speed it was either the wrong type of mixer or you weren't standing facing the West at high noon with one leg pointed in the same direction your mixer was turning the epoxy. Bubbles are always user error. I know this because I had an epoxy bubbletastrophe myself and then read everything written about them so it wouldn't happen in the next coat, which it didn't but I had fisheyes in the next coat and then on and on every coat went. I have a beautiful floor full of character that is 7 layers thick. It could have been 100 things that caused the bubbles but unfortunately all of them are your fault. Lol. Here's my bubble floor. I gotta do a write up on the entire disaster one day. It came out perfect...

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

So the guy that sold me this product, in a phone call that he made to me, in an attempt at helping determine what went wrong, actually told me "if I could lobby Congress for one thing, it would be to outlaw metallic floors, as 99 percent of them we sell have bubble issues"

Sure would have liked to have been told that before buying the product. And if you think it should be illegal, why did you sell it to me? LOL
 

katilicous

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Location
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Wonder why? Maybe the mica powder doesn't get mixed in properly or the mica offgasses.

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Wantsalotta

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Oct 23, 2017
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Wonder why? Maybe the mica powder doesn't get mixed in properly or the mica offgasses.

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I asked the same question and his response was because the material goes down so thick, and cures so slow. I now have a really thick floor, that is for sure. It has 6 gallons of 40 percent solids primer, and a total of somewhere around 35 gallons of 100 percent solids hp250 on it.
 

ford33

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Feb 26, 2011
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2,118
Location
Chicago, IL. USA
Sorry to hear about the bubbles. That is a pretty floor. I like the colors and effect of the color. I think you are fortunate to have a very unique and interesting floor while you work on your projects.

It's not perfect but neither is Picasso painting but it is still considered a work of art.
 
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Wantsalotta

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Oct 23, 2017
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Sorry to hear about the bubbles. That is a pretty floor. I like the colors and effect of the color. I think you are fortunate to have a very unique and interesting floor while you work on your projects.

It's not perfect but neither is Picasso painting but it is still considered a work of art.

Thanks ford. I certainly do feel lucky to have what I do have. I realize I sound like a whiney little girl, and I don't mean to. I'd love to know what went wrong. I like things to be perfect.

As far as colors and overall look of the floor, I probably have more experience marbling two part epoxy than anyone else who has never done a floor. I just usually do it on a much smaller scale. I think the last two show that I am used to a pretty flawless clear coat when I am done.

All in all, the floor is amazing, better than anything I have ever seen in person, and I feel lucky to get to make it dirty and wash it for the foreseeable future. I do wish I could go back in time and select a more proven product from one of the vendors here.
 

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