my KRL just fell over

[fordbroncodave]

i bought a 60 gallon air compressor from northern tool and equip and it fell off the forklift in my dads truck.

the night my snap on dealer was delivering my krb box it almost broke a caster off when rolling it halfway across our driveway. he could have backed all the way up to the garage.

 

[Joe Mamma]

That's really tough luck. From an insuance perspective, you definately need to file a claim against your employer's liability insurance. Your homeowner's insurance is probably not going to do a thing for you due to the fact that your tools are used for work, off premisis. I think it's possible to endorse a homeowner's policy to cover something like this, but most of the time you need to buy a seperate policy.

Also, do not expect your employers insurance carrier to just buy you a new box. They are much more likely to pay a claim based on "Actual Cash Value" which equals replacement cost less depreciation. And NO, they will not buy your argument that a Snap-on box will last forever. So if it's five years old, they will probably say it has a useful life of 20 years, and pay 3/4s. Still not too bad, you can easily replace the box in the used market for that.

The last box like this I sold I got $3,500 in mint condition. If you get any more than that, you should come out whole.

Let me just throw one thing out there. I think some insurance companies (and hopefully your employer) will pay the higher of depreciated value or the ACTUAL replacement cost. The "actual replacement cost" means that you go out and actually buy the same thing (or something very similar). Then, they will reimburse you for every penny. It keeps you from getting the cash for a new one unless you actually buy it.

I'm sorry to hear about what happened. I would not settle for a repaired box or even the depreciated value. I would be nice at first, but prepared to fight this very hard to the end.

Joe Mamma

 

[Romanova]

Someone had to... lol!

Seriously though, hope you have a speedy conclusion to this that is in your favor.

 

[paramedic]

i understand its expensive and like your baby, but seriously sometimes **** just happens. i hate the company i work for. i wrecked a 350 dollar stethoscope when i went to get in an ambulance and the running board broke off. i just let it go even though that scope would last my carreer. How is the company to forsee that. sometimes **** just happens and its no ones fault apparently you have rolled over that drain before at what point did any of you think it was an issue. if it was you should have said something

 

[welderwink]

i understand its expensive and like your baby, but seriously sometimes **** just happens. i hate the company i work for. i wrecked a 350 dollar stethoscope when i went to get in an ambulance and the running board broke off. i just let it go even though that scope would last my carreer. How is the company to forsee that. sometimes **** just happens and its no ones fault apparently you have rolled over that drain before at what point did any of you think it was an issue. if it was you should have said something

Yea I guess I can see that your $350 stethoscope is equal in price to a $9800 tool box.

 

[jay50]

Get your union shop steward off his lazy A$$ and start working for those union dues you pay him every month.

 

[Griff93]

Nope. A box falling over is not something that Snap-on will replace under warranty.

I have personally seen a KRL replaced by SO for falling but it was due to a caster failing. If the wheels fell off your new car cause the wheel bearing was improperly installed you would want the resulting damage to be fixed or replaced if totaled.

As to warrantying the box for rust, Snap on claims right on the box the toolboxes come in that the finish is warrantied. I have had a KRL warrantied due to the paint falling off of it.

 

[fordbroncodave]

i wonder how many snap on boxes failed when they set the huge dump truck on top of 4 of them

 

[MartinTech]

[QUO=Ser50;998000]i was pushing my KRL722/791 when a drain (an unavoidable drain that runs the entire length of the shop) gave way, my box went completely backwards.

.[/QUOTE]

What a drag!! How did you manage to avoid that confounded drain before today?

I sure hope my box never finds reverse.

careful with that axe, eugene.

 

[chadster1]

I have personally seen a KRL replaced by SO for falling but it was due to a caster failing. If the wheels fell off your new car cause the wheel bearing was improperly installed you would want the resulting damage to be fixed or replaced if totaled.

As to warrantying the box for rust, Snap on claims right on the box the toolboxes come in that the finish is warrantied. I have had a KRL warrantied due to the paint falling off of it.

If the box fell over due to a faulty caster, then yes that would be a warranty issue. That is not the case here.

I have had a couple of boxes warranted for rust for my customers. Totally different issue than what the OP posted about though.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

my boss does not insure our boxes
I don't own a home - no homeowners insurance
I don't think they are going to think your toolbox is worth the 9-10 granf replacement
are you going to push the issue in 10% unemployment times ?

 

[Davefr]

my boss does not insure our boxes
I don't own a home - no homeowners insurance
I don't think they are going to think your toolbox is worth the 9-10 granf replacement
are you going to push the issue in 10% unemployment times ?

No but the boss probably has a general liability insurance to cover things like damage to customer's cars while in their possesion. Damage to an employees property through no fault of their own could also be covered.

Secondly, if the OP marches into the owners office and demands $10k for a brand new box then he may also be handed his walking papers. If he asks to be made whole with an equivalent used box then maybe he'll succeed.

Yes, it all depends on his tenure and value as an employee to the company.

A continuous paycheck can likely buy much more then an unemployment check. The OP has to decide how far to push this issue.

 

[bgott]

I have had a couple of boxes warranted for rust for my customers.

No ****. Snappy Jack and I are going to have a talk come Friday.

 

[Griff93]

I would think that SnapOn would warranty it. A few guys at my shop all had their boxes replaced for free when the bottom started to rust. (most likely from the boys cleaning the shop each night with soapy water) There was 4 or 5 boxes that were exchanged for brand new ones. Now, i dont know if it was because the boxes were rusty, or if it was blamed on the company for the soapy floors each night.

This is what I mentioned the rusty box issue for. We wash the floor once a week and our toolboxes don't get wet. Our climate is so humid bare medal rusts even indoors around here.

I realize this is not at all Snap On's fault that the OP's box turned over. I wasn't implying that and if it came across that way I'm sorry.

 

[kythri]

my boss does not insure our boxes
I don't own a home - no homeowners insurance
I don't think they are going to think your toolbox is worth the 9-10 granf replacement
are you going to push the issue in 10% unemployment times ?

That's why they offer renter's insurance...

Mine covers a fair amount of gear that's not at the house I rent (in vehicle and at work).

 

[Tindjin]

i was pushing my KRL722/791 when a drain (an unavoidable drain that runs the entire length of the shop) gave way, my box went completely backwards.

What a drag!! How did you manage to avoid that confounded drain before today?

I sure hope my box never finds reverse.

careful with that axe, eugene.

I dunno but I've never pushed my boxes in a way where they could fall over (other than a few inches to get into position) backwards especially never over rough ground. Just seems like a common sense thing not to do. It's all physics.

 

[TCJ1981]

You have got to be kidding...

Curious as to why you found that statement so outrageous.

 

[Ser50]

are you going to push the issue in 10% unemployment times ?

with a union and in canada where i could get a job in 10 minutes? sure.


some people seem confused

facts: the box was being moved over a shop-long drain that is rolled over daily.
the drain is a problem and this is not the first box to fall in it. we complain about a lot of things, and few things get fixed.

it went back wards because the drain fell away below the back left caster,,, doesnt matter how youre moving it if the back legs kicked out.

**** happens? thats ********. my lively hood falling through a ****** drain im forced to roll over is not like tripping and breaking my own tool.

i work for a government. theres no owner, and generally good support.


the company gave me a tiny temporary box
my box was taken apart today, i marked and took photos of all of the damage, my SO rep came buy and counted up all of the drawer rails that got busted... quite a few on inspection
ended up having not so calm conversations with management, since he was freaking out imagining a 10,000 bill and trying to some how blame it on my while admitting he has the return it to original condition/replace.

heres some pics,, they dont show much.. the masking tap is everywhere theres something,,,

overall theres bending and dents almost everywhere, both back casters have bent up the inside

anyways,

thanks for the support thus far, ill keep you guys updated.

i get the sinking feeling though my company will 'fix' it, and there wont be much i can do about it.

 

[Stick Figure]

***** to see. If the bottom is bent where the caster bolt up, then i would really push the unsafe structure side of things to try and get a new box.

 

[MrMark]

There's no way to fix that right. It will just end up a butcher job.

 

[00S4Boy]

I dunno but I've never pushed my boxes in a way where they could fall over (other than a few inches to get into position) backwards especially never over rough ground. Just seems like a common sense thing not to do. It's all physics.

Not that i don't feel bad for the guy but i'm a little lost as to how this all happened. I've tossed my roll cart over once being stupid, but i admit i was being stupid.

If the box was being moved around carefully not drug around with no regards to it's surroundings I can't really see even if a drain failed how it would go over, unless someone was being careless. I imagine it's some sort of shop floor drain no more then 18 inches wide running the width of the shop with metal grating over it. If that is correct then the only way this box went is if it was crossing that drain at a large angle. Whenever i have had to cross a floor drain like that always hit it perpendicular to minimize risk.

 

[SiGmA_X]

my boss does not insure our boxes
I don't own a home - no homeowners insurance
I don't think they are going to think your toolbox is worth the 9-10 granf replacement
are you going to push the issue in 10% unemployment times ?

If you rent, you can add it on your renters policy for a few bucks a month. My buddy pay's ~$20-25/mo for $15k in tool insurance, specified to be stored at X address with a security system and steel garage doors, as well as his typical renters policy. Another friend of mine pays ~$15/mo for just renters insurance. So its pretty cheap, and good insurance in case something like this happens.

I agree, I doubt the employer will want to cover the box. Thankfully the OP has a union to back him up. I would mildly worry about the unemployment issues that could result.

OP, best of luck getting a new box, that KRL is a sweet box and worth every penny.

 

[nate379]

One of the guys at work flipped one of our large boxes. We have to deal with all kinds at work (military) and he didn't know that if you open every drawer starting from the top you can only get about 3/4 of them open before it tips. (yeah, I was not very happy).

I don't remember the model number but it was a single bottom cabinet that was about 5ft tall and ~4' wide.

It actually didn't damage it too bad, just twisted 2 slides to where the drawers wouldn't close right and twisted the lid. I fixed the lid and Snap On warrantied out the slides.


A few weeks later they did it again and no damage. One of the short girls couldn't see the top drawer so she pulls out one of the bottom 3-4 drawers and climbs in it. Well she was short and fat... toolbox went right over on her. Didn't help the bottom drawers had alot of weight in it to begin with but still...

 

[Catamount]

One of the short girls couldn't see the top drawer so she pulls out one of the bottom 3-4 drawers and climbs in it. Well she was short and fat... toolbox went right over on her. Didn't help the bottom drawers had alot of weight in it to begin with but still...

 

[Joe Mamma]

You said this was not the first box that had fallen in the drain at your shop.
When are you guys gonna learn a better way to do this?
How many boxes need to take a tumble??

From a legal perspective, that actually could help the box owner. It could be very good grounds for a claim of professional negligence against the employer.

Joe Mamma

 

[Skyline]

Let me just throw one thing out there. I think some insurance companies (and hopefully your employer) will pay the higher of depreciated value or the ACTUAL replacement cost. The "actual replacement cost" means that you go out and actually buy the same thing (or something very similar). Then, they will reimburse you for every penny. It keeps you from getting the cash for a new one unless you actually buy it.

I'm sorry to hear about what happened. I would not settle for a repaired box or even the depreciated value. I would be nice at first, but prepared to fight this very hard to the end.

Joe Mamma

I have just such a "Replacement Cost" rider on my own homeowners policy. I don't think that this coverage can be added to a commercial General Liability policy though.

 

[Skyline]

That's why they offer renter's insurance...

Mine covers a fair amount of gear that's not at the house I rent (in vehicle and at work).

You need to read the fine print of your policy. There is typically VERY limited coverage for items used for work or business. Also, items not in your home are generally NOT covered unless you have an "Off Premesis Theft" rider. While I am an insurance broker P&C is not my specialty, but I would talk to your broker about exactly what riders are available for "business use", and what coverage is afforded.

 

[Skyline]

Ser50

There is NO way you can fix that box properly. Assuming you could straighten it, you can never match the finish quality in a body shop, even if you could match the color. Bent and straightened steel will never be as strong as steel never bent, and this will be a specific problem in the caster area. Finally there is probably damage to inner layers of steel that are impossible to get to.

Chad; Aren't the KRLs powder coated?

So I would NOT accept a body shop solution. Remind your boss that he can either pay outright, or give you the name of his insurance company. This is what he pays premium for. For a small claim, he might want to avoid using his insurance, but this is not so small.

And in the future, you might want to consider a different way of moving tools around. Like buying a cart so you can leave you big box in one place. Or a bottom only tripple bank that is infinitely more stable. Moving a loaded top/bottom combo over anything but a glass smooth surface is asking for trouble.

 

[Professur]

If you're union ... why is this even a discussion? You pay your dues for them to be the voice that speaks to your boss.

 

[kythri]

You need to read the fine print of your policy. There is typically VERY limited coverage for items used for work or business. Also, items not in your home are generally NOT covered unless you have an "Off Premesis Theft" rider. While I am an insurance broker P&C is not my specialty, but I would talk to your broker about exactly what riders are available for "business use", and what coverage is afforded.

You're correct. I pay a bit more than just a basic policy, but I have riders/scheduled coverage for specific items that end up being stored in my vehicle or out of the house. Allstate and GEICO both do this.

 

[Cryptic1911]

I would definately try to get them to replace the box with a new one, or at least a used one in similar condition to yours before it fell over. Once they replace it, they could take the damaged one and bang it out, take the casters off, and use it as a built in (non movable) box for general shop tools or something. its in decent enough shape that it would be a shame to toss it, but still bad enough that I would want a replacement

 

[logical]

A guy posts that a drain cover collapsed and tipped his box over...and we get 25 posts that don't seem to grasp the basic facts here.

It wasn't just a groove in the floor that he knew was there. His box didn't rust. the casters din't fall off. His box wasn't stolen. It was damaged because in freakin fell into a freakin failure in the freakin floor.

 

[nate379]

It's a **** happens thing if you ask me. Damage doesn't look nearly as bad as you posted. I would maybe consider replacing the lid and hinge on the top since it's tweaked pretty bad, but I wouldn't worry too much about the rest.

If that wasn't the first box to go in the drain, why did you even run it over in the first place?

Sounds to me like an issue with the drain but also inattention on your part as well.

And $10k box setup? It looks to be $9700 MSRP, but first who pays MSRP and that is for a brand new box... how old is yours???

 

[bmrisko]

Can you please post pictures of the drain in question?

 

[HarveyM]

If the casters bent, it's not safe for use(I think). I would also approach it as an safety hazard issue.

Here's part of the regs
"4.3 Safe machinery and equipment
(1) The employer must ensure that each tool, machine and piece of equipment in the workplace is

(a) capable of safely performing the functions for which it is used, and

(b) selected, used and operated in accordance with

(i) the manufacturer's instructions, if available,

(ii) safe work practices, and

(iii) the requirements of this Regulation.

(2) Unless otherwise specified by this Regulation, the installation, inspection, testing, repair and maintenance of a tool, machine or piece of equipment must be carried out

(a) in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions and any standard the tool, machine or piece of equipment is required to meet, or

(b) as specified by a professional engineer."

Get Snap-on to look at it and call it not repairable.

 

[TheGrooveking]

Remind them that the acceptance of the repair is that the box had no bondo on it to start with and it will have none on when they are done. If they continue to give you bullsiht, take it until you can find another job, then use a company vehicle and accidently drive into your bosses car, **** happens...

TheGrooveking

 

[tonydanzah]

If it is the drain like I have seen, it runs entire length of the shop in the middle. Probably 6" wide, with a cast steel grate covering it is 2 footish sections the whole length. No way to avoid it if you need to move from one side to the other. Can't easily throw a board across it because you would have to push a fully loaded toolbox up a 1/2 or 3/4 tall "curb" Sorry for your loss. Definitely not your fault at all, no way to avoid it, if the grate breaks.

They people that seem to be saying its your fault must not be familiar with this type of drain.

 

[Davefr]

If the casters bent, it's not safe for use(I think). I would also approach it as an safety hazard issue.

Here's part of the regs
"4.3 Safe machinery and equipment
(1) The employer must ensure that each tool, machine and piece of equipment in the workplace is

(a) capable of safely performing the functions for which it is used, and

(b) selected, used and operated in accordance with

(i) the manufacturer's instructions, if available,

(ii) safe work practices, and

(iii) the requirements of this Regulation.

(2) Unless otherwise specified by this Regulation, the installation, inspection, testing, repair and maintenance of a tool, machine or piece of equipment must be carried out

(a) in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions and any standard the tool, machine or piece of equipment is required to meet, or

(b) as specified by a professional engineer."

Get Snap-on to look at it and call it not repairable.

^^^ Precisely the strategy to use. Keep elevating the issue as long as it doesn't jeopardize your job.

 

[chadster1]

Ser50


Chad; Aren't the KRLs powder coated?

Yes they are.

 

[Skyline]

Yes they are.

So as the box is powder coated at the factory, I doubt most body shops, (if ANY), would be able to replicate as durable a finish, even if they could match the color. PPG Deltron is NOT anywhere close to powder coating in terms of durabliity.