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My Mini-Split Plan

rockcrawler

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I purchased two Pioneer 24K mini-splits (WYS024GMFI22RL-10) for my shop. I have also purchased two 60A non-fuse disconnect boxes and two 6’ 10/2 whips. Pioneer says they recommend 25A double pole breakers and 10AWG stranded unshielded wire. I need to run power from the panel to the disconnects. I think I’ll need roughly 160-170 feet of each wire to do both units (red, black, green). Do I need to just buy individual rolls of 10AWG THHN wire for this job? I’m assuming I’ll need 3/4” conduit for the three wires. Or, should I run all six in a larger conduit and then branch off to a smaller conduit once it reaches the closest unit? What kind of conduit would be best for this application?



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rockcrawler

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jlv03

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Or, would it be best to install a sub panel on the back wall just for the AC units?
Are you thinking inside or outside?

If you put it inside, you really need to keep the area around it clear for access. Sure would come in handy to run additional circuits for anything along that wall, though.

Outside you might be able to skip the disconnects altogether if the panel is line of site of the air handler.

Don’t forget you’ll need an outside receptacle for service needs as well.
 

dcg9381

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Or, would it be best to install a sub panel on the back wall just for the AC units?
That's how I do it. Power up a Siemen's Talon panel (exterior) between those two units, it comes with a 20A GFI outlet, so meets the needs of "outside receptacle". If these max draw 13.1A, you could simply provide 40A to the sub panel, then install your breakers there.

I dunno how the economics work out over running 2 groups of 10ga wire + exterior outlet, but it's another option. I like having "available power" outside on a sub panel, but understand that you've purchased the disconnects.

Doing it the way you've designed
10 ga will easily run through 3/4 PVC.. Fill table says you can get all of those wires in there if you want to do it that way:
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rockcrawler

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It’s all going to be inside. I got to thinking about the cost of wire and it looks like a much better plan all the way around to add a small sub panel at the back. I plan on just running a conduit on top of an upper purlin to the back and drop it down into the sub panel. I’m thinking the only items I’ll have dedicated circuits for will be the two mini-splits and my small air compressor. I think something from 50A to 80A should be sufficient.
 
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rockcrawler

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Mounting brackets up. Pioneer suggests 80” - 100” for best results. I’m right at about 97”. I plan on putting up plywood walls eventually and this placement will keep it just above the plywood. Just working on this project every once in a while when I have time.


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rockcrawler

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Holes cut. I used some hose on the edges to keep the lines from getting damaged in any way.

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Got the wall units up today.

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rockcrawler

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So, I’ve decided I’m going to just put a panel at the back of the shop. This is my plan.

Feeder panel is 100A

Sub panel will be 100 amp with 8-12 spaces (I will only be using 5 now for the two mini splits and a small compressor)

Sub panel will be protected by a 60 amp breaker

I want to run a large enough wire to the sub panel just in case I ever need it to be 90 amps

Distance from feeder panel to sub panel will be about 70 feet

I was thinking 2-2-2-4 aluminum wire

Wire will be run in conduit on top of a purlin that is about 8 feet high

I need suggestions on what type of wire and conduit to use. Any/all other suggestions, tips, etc. are welcome.
 

DrVlikhell

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Your electrical setup is very similar to mine that I'm currently working on. I installed a 100A sub panel on the back of my house to feed three Pioneer mini-splits. I ran three, 4awg copper THHN wires (hot, hot, neutral) and one 8awg copper THHN wire (ground) from the main panel to the sub panel in 1" PVC conduit. 4awg copper is good for 80a (arguably 90a too) but I only used a 60a breaker on it because 80a GE breakers are $80 and 60a GE breakers are $15, and I will only have 50a worth of breakers in the sub panel. But the wire is there if I ever need another 20a in that panel. Also, for whatever reason, 4awg copper THHN was 2 cents cheaper per foot than 6awg at Lowe's.

I was told by a veteran electrician friend not to use aluminum wire. He said you can per code and ampacity if you upsize the wire correctly, but he doesn't recommend it. He did say that if I went with aluminum to use lots of Nolox on each end of every wire. I took his suggestion and used copper though. It was good I did because it turned out that 4awg is the largest wire that would fit into the neutral bus bar on my main panel. No idea how I would have fit a larger wire on there. A lot of people do use 2-2-2-4 aluminum wire for sub panels in shops as it keeps costs down, especially over longer runs. I only had to go 23 feet though.

If you use metal EMT conduit you can use the conduit as your ground and eliminate the ground wire. You just have to make sure the conduit stays firmly connected it's entire life or you could loose your ground connection. I didn't want to deal with that, or potential rust (I live in Florida and my conduit is outside) so I used PVC and a ground wire. But you could definitely do that inside a shop if you wanted to. However, if you're set on the 2-2-2-4 aluminum wire, the ground wire is already in there and PVC conduit is easier to work with.

The 4awg THHN I used is $1.52/ft at Lowes. The 8awg ground wire is $0.97/ft. One inch conduit will fit all that or you could upsize to 1-1/4" conduit for an easier pull. If you do use 2-2-2-4 aluminum you'll need at least 1-1/4" conduit. If you have more than 360 degrees of elbows/turns/bends you'll need to put a conduit body somewhere in the middle to break it up, one for easier pulling and two, I think code says no more than 360 degrees of bends between accesses. That's all I can think of at the moment.
 
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rockcrawler

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Your electrical setup is very similar to mine that I'm currently working on. I installed a 100A sub panel on the back of my house to feed three Pioneer mini-splits. I ran three, 4awg copper THHN wires (hot, hot, neutral) and one 8awg copper THHN wire (ground) from the main panel to the sub panel in 1" PVC conduit. 4awg copper is good for 80a (arguably 90a too) but I only used a 60a breaker on it because 80a GE breakers are $80 and 60a GE breakers are $15, and I will only have 50a worth of breakers in the sub panel. But the wire is there if I ever need another 20a in that panel. Also, for whatever reason, 4awg copper THHN was 2 cents cheaper per foot than 6awg at Lowe's.

I was told by a veteran electrician friend not to use aluminum wire. He said you can per code and ampacity if you upsize the wire correctly, but he doesn't recommend it. He did say that if I went with aluminum to use lots of Nolox on each end of every wire. I took his suggestion and used copper though. It was good I did because it turned out that 4awg is the largest wire that would fit into the neutral bus bar on my main panel. No idea how I would have fit a larger wire on there. A lot of people do use 2-2-2-4 aluminum wire for sub panels in shops as it keeps costs down, especially over longer runs. I only had to go 23 feet though.

If you use metal EMT conduit you can use the conduit as your ground and eliminate the ground wire. You just have to make sure the conduit stays firmly connected it's entire life or you could loose your ground connection. I didn't want to deal with that, or potential rust (I live in Florida and my conduit is outside) so I used PVC and a ground wire. But you could definitely do that inside a shop if you wanted to. However, if you're set on the 2-2-2-4 aluminum wire, the ground wire is already in there and PVC conduit is easier to work with.

The 4awg THHN I used is $1.52/ft at Lowes. The 8awg ground wire is $0.97/ft. One inch conduit will fit all that or you could upsize to 1-1/4" conduit for an easier pull. If you do use 2-2-2-4 aluminum you'll need at least 1-1/4" conduit. If you have more than 360 degrees of elbows/turns/bends you'll need to put a conduit body somewhere in the middle to break it up, one for easier pulling and two, I think code says no more than 360 degrees of bends between accesses. That's all I can think of at the moment.

Thanks for all of the info. I actually have a master electrician coming over on Monday to look at my project and give me some advice and he is going to help me get a list together and let me order it from his local supplier. I’m really excited to get this done. I need to pour my concrete pads next. Hopefully in the next few days.
 
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rockcrawler

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Well, I’ve been busy and I just work on this project when I can. So far I’ve got the electrical mostly complete and I need to run the AC line sets. I had ordered some Airex Titan Outlets, but I ordered the wrong size so I’m waiting on the new ones to arrive. I am not finished with the electrical and I have not connected the 1st sub panel to the 2nd sub panel in the shop. I ended up running 3 #4 copper wires and a #8 copper wire inside 1“ EMT from sub panel 1 to sub panel 2. I still need to double check all my connections and make sure I did everything right. I ran MC from the 2nd sub panel to each JB and then ran THHN/THWN through the conduit into the disconnects. I drilled a 3/4” hole in the wall and passed the 1/2” conduit through, then siliconed around it. I also discovered that the “electrician” that did the work during the shop build ran Romex through the underground conduit from the house main panel to the shop sub panel. So, I just received the 3 #1 Aluminum wires and the #6 copper ground wire to replace it all. 155 feet worth😡. That will be done later.

Here are some pics of the progress.

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rockcrawler

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I have not had the chance to work on the mini splits much due to other responsibilities and the weather. But, I got one pretty much completed. Pressure tested it today and it passed. Hopefully I’ll get it vacuum tested tomorrow and get some work done on the other unit. I used a Airex Titan Outlet for the line set, drain and communication wire and it turned out really clean.


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