Above 1200 Sq/FT My new dream shop

[Wiebster]

Hi everyone, I’ve been on here a few times to get suggestions for problematic situations that have popped up over the years but still definitely a newbie on this awesome site. I’ve come to the conclusion that if I don’t build now, I’ll be too old to really enjoy the fruits of my labor. Soooo, I’ve jumped in with both feet and started building my dream shop, at least as dreamy as I can afford (barely). I’ll update you with more pictures from the beginning of site prep but I need to skip right to the issue at hand. The concrete contractor has formed the perimeter and I have been getting the insulation, vapor barrier, and in floor pex installed getting ready for the big pour this week or next. As much as I’ve read on Garage Journal, thought about for 40 years, observed at other shops, I’m just concerned I’m forgetting something that I won’t be able to remedy after the pour. Do you see or can think of anything that I need or should do before the mud arrives? To save you from wondering what I have done, I’ll try to list what I thought was important.
The shop will be divided into 3 seperate areas. Wood working, metal working, and automotive.

1. Good solid undisturbed base
2. 4” base course, packed more times than I can count
3. thin layer of crusher fines to protect my 6 mil vapor barrier
4. vapor barrier
5. 2” FlexxBoard25 insulation
6. 1/2” pex O2 barrier
7. 6’ linear drain to daylight
8. thickened areas for 2 post lift
9. thickened area (36” dia) for jib crane
10. 4’x4’ recessed area for freight elevator base (recessed 6 3/4”)
11. 6” and 4”under slab dust collection system
12. 4”sewer stem
13. conduit for 1” water line
14. Many runs of under slab conduit of various sizes for lift, table saw, in floor outlets, elevator, short cut to other side of shop to save on wiring
15. Fiber optic and cat5 cables
16. 0000 aluminum for service panel (largest power company would put in)
17. 5-6” concrete pad (to be poured soon)
18. Shop is 40x72

That’s about all I can think of so on with the pics. Any suggestions, even crazy ones, are welcomed and appreciated.

 

[drmarkr]

All looks good....but I'm wondering about the fiberoptic and Cat 5? What will you use that on that wireless networking couldn't handle?

 

[WildBill]

All looks good....but I'm wondering about the fiberoptic and Cat 5? What will you use that on that wireless networking couldn't handle?

He's installing an under slab vacuum system and a freight lift but you are wondering about the fiber? GJ folks are going to have a hard time coming up with ways to make him add more stuff. They will, but it will be harder than usual.

 

[ConCretin]

GJ folks are going to have a hard time coming up with ways to make him add more stuff. They will, but it will be harder than usual.

It's going to be hard to install whatever they come up with too since the slab was all prepped before he posted.

 

[GlennSullivan]

All looks good....but I'm wondering about the fiberoptic and Cat 5? What will you use that on that wireless networking couldn't handle?

I was in the IT business for 30 years and learned wireless is good for many, many things but consistent bandwidth to multiple devices isn't one of them and even in today's world, most high performance network devices perform better with a wired connection. This is especially true with multi-gigabit Internet service and internal devices with gigabit / multi-gigabit (wired) capability. We see this when using our notebooks to access apps and data on our internal network using wireless vs wired connections. And You need to feed the Wireless Access Points with a wired connection.

When we built our garage in 2005, I installed 3 Cat 5e Cables + 1 Coax Cable (data feed, phone feed, spare feed and TV feed). I also installed a 6 strand fiber cable for future use. I sit here I sit almost 20 years later preparing to pull the fiber out of the conduit while pulling in 3 more Cat5e / Cat6 cables. I'll use 2 of them for additional high resolution 4K external cameras which will connect back to POE ports on the NVR in the house and 1 to for a remote interface for a replacement generator behind the garage. Both of these will be on separate networks from the main house / garage network, so I can't plug them into the switch in the garage which is part of the main network, and also not POE or VLN capable.

Using the existing fiber to do what I want to accomplish, would involve much more expense than just adding the 3 additional Cat 5e / 6 cables and again no POE over fiber, so would need to use power injectors for the 2 cameras. The fiber was installed to support a remote backup location for our company / customers that we ended up implementing elsewhere.

Sorry for the long response.

 

[Wiebster]

I honestly know very little about IT and anything associated. The shop is 300’ from my house and we already have weak internet here. I’m not sure if I could boost wireless that far or not. I just happened to call my internet provider and when they found out I had the trench for power open, they were here within the hour and laid both free of charge. I’m determined to do whatever is necessary to implement any ideas you guys can come up with.

 

[kabinenroller]

Being in South Dakota is a slab on grade a good way to go with the cold winters you have? I built my 40x60 with a full foundation insulated on both sides so the floor does not have thermo transfer to the foundation walls. The floor has vapor barrier, insulation, and pex for the hydronic system.

 

[Wiebster]

It is not the best way to go, a frost wall with a wide footing below frost line is. But a reenforced thickened edge slab (16” deep x 16” base sloping up to the field) built on well drained gravel soil is an acceptable building method. I’m not insulating the very bottom of the thickened edge where it sits on undisturbed soil but I am insulating the perimeter of the slab before backfilling. I may also extend the insulation with wings 4 ft horizontally away from the slab about a foot under ground. My budget for the foundation was $50k which I feel is ridiculously expensive but a frost wall would have pushed me well over that. Concrete is running around $250 a yard now delivered about 20 miles.

 

[Wiebster]

I should also mention heating this shop is not my concern as I don’t spend winters here. I’m just looking for ideas to make the shop more user friendly. I’ve thought of three more ideas I’d like to get done if I can today before the pour. I’m welding a steel “box” of angle iron and 1/8”x6” plate for the elevator to sit in so the elevator floor is flush with the concrete when in the down position. I was previously going to just form this into the concrete but have since decided to embed this steel box into the concrete and concrete around it. I’m also going to try to embed some flat plates at least 1/2” thick maybe 12” square, flush with the concrete in both the metal working and auto shop that I could weld or drill and tap into for any type of anchor or pull plate that might be needed in the future. I could also weld or bolt a tool to them without having to drill and anchor into the concrete. Along those same lines I was thinking about doing the same with a 2” square receiver hitch type tube embedded flush so that I could drop any number of attachments/devices/tools into when needed but pull them out when not needed. I would tie these into the rebar below before pouring. Any thoughts on doing this and the best locations for them?

 

[Wiebster]

I’m assuming I’m not pouring today because my concrete contractor didn’t show up this morning…again! Today is Friday and I’m thinking this awesome website is more active on weekends. If it’s not against any rules I’m going to move this thread to the General Garage Discussion because it seems I might get more suggestions over there that I can get implemented over the weekend. Can a moderator move it or should I?

 

[Toolfool]

Why 4" PVC pipe under slab for DC ? I've built two shops of my own and two for customers with PVC DC lines buried, all 6". The more you can stay 6" the better. Some solid research : http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.php

 

[Wiebster]

I will post my build from the very beginning soon. Then the criticism can begin of the decisions I’ve made building my shop. I have thick skin and can take that criticism easily. But right now I’m pouring a metric **** ton of concrete on Monday and want ideas and suggestions before the mud hits the insulation.

I’ve never had dust collection before so I’m intimately familiar with what each wood working tool I own produces. I eat 50% of it and inhale the rest. I would be so proud of myself if I could single handedly produce enough dust/chips/chunks to plug a 4” dust collection line. The main line is 6” and each line feeding it is 4”. ALL my tools, Powermatic 66, 8”Jet jointer, my small planer, have 4” outlets. If it was super important, wouldn’t all those tools have 6” discharge ports?

I know I didn’t give you guys much time but I have two days to get everything I forgot, overlooked, neglected, etc to get done before the floor is poured. Just coming here to look for ideas. With that said, I did get my elevator base steel box built and installed, pex manifold built and installed, pressurized to 60psi, and my in floor drain installed and plumbed to the outside of the building. (will dig to daylight later). Concrete guy showed up to tie rebar. Getting close

 

[kabek]

Very exciting stuff! I have a woodshop and run 8" main then direct off to 6." Connection at the machines you will have to Macgyver depending but ideal to throttle down as close to the machine as possible. The idea of below slab DC would be great but might be limiting in the long run. You will likely find your shop set up evolves and changes overtime and that may limit you. If you like the industrial look the DC can be esthetic and its simple to disconnect and modify depending on what you buy.

 

[Wiebster]

I love the beams and ceiling in your shop! Your dc runs seam huge to me but you may be running bigger equipment than me. You’re most likely right about an evolving machine layout, especially in a new shop that I’ve never worked in before. Time will tell if I went too small. My main run is only 20’ straight run to the cyclone, my longest 4” run is at the longest 10’. Can’t imagine that clogging as even my shop vac doesn’t clog unless a chunk of wood gets in the corrugated hose. To be honest the dc is the least of my concerns in this build. But I would like to hear from anyone that has 4” lines and wishing they went bigger.

 

[Toolfool]

It's not about clogging a line. It's about pulling enough CFM to draw in the finest dust particles, the stuff you can't see, that cause health issues. ( I guess you didn't have time to read any of the link I posted).

 

[Wiebster]

You’re correct, I didn’t have time to read the article. I’m prepping for concrete. That was the whole reason I started this post, but somehow we got wrapped around the axel on dust control. I guess I’ll need to up the power of my dust collector. I
l let you know how mine works.

 

[GlennSullivan]

I honestly know very little about IT and anything associated. The shop is 300’ from my house and we already have weak internet here. I’m not sure if I could boost wireless that far or not. I just happened to call my internet provider and when they found out I had the trench for power open, they were here within the hour and laid both free of charge. I’m determined to do whatever is necessary to implement any ideas you guys can come up with.

My guess is that they are looking to future proof your new install or are concerned about the distance from house to garage (see below). You saying you have crappy internet at the house now, tells me the house does not currently have fiber internet / TV service. If you pm me a recent invoice from them, I can tell you what you have and have not. Please remove all personally identifiable information before sending!

It is typical for cable companies to want to sell you a second “service” for the second billing which is B/S. You should be making the garage an extension of the house. Maintaining a single service account / feed from the street and billing from the Cable Company / ISP).

The only thing you have working against you in accomplishing this is the 300’ distance. Not sure if it is 300 linear feet between buildings or actual cable length including wire inside each building, which you need to count.

Cat5e and Cat6 will support 1gb/s Ethernet at 330’ (100m). this can be pushed by a few feet but you should consider the 300' the max.

It is the actual wire length from the router or switch in the house to switch in the garage that matters. The fact that the Cable company installed the wire (which they own), I would speak to them and use the words “how will I now get Internet, CATV and phone (is you have it) to the garage?

If they are intending to extend your existing service to the garage for you, that is great! If they want to provide separate service to the garage (which will give you a separate bill forever and make it difficult for garage network devices to talk to house network devices) then I would not go that route.

 

[Wiebster]

Yeah, I thought about that too. The power company has their meter I’m now paying for in addition to my house. I wonder if the internet provider wants to go the same route. Obviously I would never pay for two services. I would almost say that the distance is too far then if it goes from our house router. Great info, thank you.

 

[Mr onetwo]

I assume that this is only for pressurization during the pour....correct? What manifolds do you plan to use in operation?

 

[Mr onetwo]

Watching with great interest....good luck!