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My New Toy!

Moose-LandTran

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Here it is, after almost TWO DAYS of waiting for it, my Fluke 289 has arrived! It's a pretty serious industrial multimeter, graphing/logging capabilities, and more functions than i'll ever need.

DSC01404.jpg


Here's me using it to test a VW ignition amplifier..

DSC01405.jpg


Graphing is cool!

DSC01406.jpg


Close-up of the graphing capability. I like this!

DSC01407.jpg


Very pleased with it, it's a great piece of kit. Ordered an automotive accessory kit too, going to get some other things soon too, couple amp clamps and things. Now i just gotta learn more about electrical diag! :)
 
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Moose-LandTran

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Is the graphing powerful enough to capture typical sensor waveforms like a scope?

To some extent, yes. Of course, it's not as good as a scopemeter but i should be able to test Hall Effect sensors with this, log the reading and view them in the graphing mode. Going to try this tomorrow with an ABS sensor. I don't know yet what i'll get out of it, but i'll try it out tomorrow and post my findings. I can test (petrol) fuel injectors with this, check duty cycle and pulse width. May also be able to test diesel common-rail and Pumpe-Duse injectors.

A Scopemeter's next on the list, maybe a Fluke 123.
 
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Moose-LandTran

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Moose where did you get this from?
Really expensive?

eBay! Much cheaper than you'd expect, £320. (Plus £22 shipping, but worth it.)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190523865772&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

The seller was very good and very helpful, it's all new and packaged, he actually lives 5 mins from my sister, she went to collect it and he'd already sent it. (within a couple hours of me buying it.)

Can you play Tetris or breakout on it?

I'll try..
 

Stick

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Is the graphing powerful enough to capture typical sensor waveforms like a scope?

Should be, most automotive sensors you want to scope out are the hall effect kind, and aren't extraordinarily fast signals. You won't be able to look at ignition waveforms, but it should be fast enough to display stuff like duty cycle, even if it can't graph it out.

It looks pretty similar to the unit I am always preaching about, the Snap-On Vantage. The old MT2400 units are available on eBay for about $300-500 on average, where they sold for $1700-1800 new, and have the added bonus of having two channels, using a standard automotive fuse (instead of the $$$ Fluke fuses), and of course the connector database (even if it's a bit outdated with the last update being 2003 or so).

Either way, in my experience once you start using a graphing meter, you have a hard time going back to a standard meter. The ability to actually look at what's going on vs. what amounts to just numbers on a screen is huge.

A Scopemeter's next on the list, maybe a Fluke 123.

For what those run, you might be better off with a netbook and a used 2-channel Picoscope. I have a co-worker that owns a Fluke 192c and I'm not terribly impressed, especially when you compare it to my Vantage Pro. My next scope purchase is going to be a Pico, the sheer power of those things is amazing, and I've generally got a laptop out anyway looking at service info or wiring diagrams anyway.

Now all you have to do is start looking at everything with your new toy, so you can see what good signals look like. Makes it much easier to spot bad signals when they appear if you've spent some time looking at vehicles that aren't broken.
 
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Moose-LandTran

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Very Nice!
Use it all of the time.
Don't let anyone borrow it.

Thanks! That's most definitely the plan, i'm not going to let other people use this, not the kind of thing you let anyone else even touch!

Should be, most automotive sensors you want to scope out are the hall effect kind, and aren't extraordinarily fast signals. You won't be able to look at ignition waveforms, but it should be fast enough to display stuff like duty cycle, even if it can't graph it out.

It looks pretty similar to the unit I am always preaching about, the Snap-On Vantage. The old MT2400 units are available on eBay for about $300-500 on average, where they sold for $1700-1800 new, and have the added bonus of having two channels, using a standard automotive fuse (instead of the $$$ Fluke fuses), and of course the connector database (even if it's a bit outdated with the last update being 2003 or so).

Either way, in my experience once you start using a graphing meter, you have a hard time going back to a standard meter. The ability to actually look at what's going on vs. what amounts to just numbers on a screen is huge.

It's a fast meter, i doubt it'll have trouble reading what i'm going to use it for. I'm going to spend the rest of today hooking it up to the car checking various things with it. :D

The graphing is awesome, and it'll graph duty cycle and pulse width for testing things like fuel injectors and hall effect sensors.

My boss has a brand new, unused MT2400 at work, all still packaged up. He wants me to buy it, which i will if i can get it for cheap. Everything's still sealed, he got it for free and never even opened the case to look at it.

It's a HUGE step up from my old meter.

For what those run, you might be better off with a netbook and a used 2-channel Picoscope. I have a co-worker that owns a Fluke 192c and I'm not terribly impressed, especially when you compare it to my Vantage Pro. My next scope purchase is going to be a Pico, the sheer power of those things is amazing, and I've generally got a laptop out anyway looking at service info or wiring diagrams anyway.

Well, the thing is that for about £500 i can get a good refurb'd and certified calibrated Fluke 123, or for the same price a 4-channel Pico on its own, no accessories. They don't really turn up used here and a new automotive kit is £1,600. Either way, i'll have to get (a lot) better at using this meter before i move onto a ScopeMeter.

Now all you have to do is start looking at everything with your new toy, so you can see what good signals look like. Makes it much easier to spot bad signals when they appear if you've spent some time looking at vehicles that aren't broken.

I plan on doing that, and checking damaged old components against new working ones too, i've kept a couple things that i can use to test and learn from.

Topshelf meter! Seeing that makes me want one.....this place will cause my garage to become so full that putting a car in there will be impossible!

You know you want to, you know you need it. You won't be disappointed.

It's surprisingly easy to use too, i thought it would be harder to navigate but after a couple hours playing with it i've figured most of it out, it's very user-friendly.

I like the moose on every tools that you want show it.... it do kind of cool and i like it....

It's more fun to show "me" using the tools. I see a "Moose Explains Basic Electrical Diag" some time in the future! :)
 
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Moose-LandTran

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Having nothing better to do, i went and hooked the 289 up to the Golf's MAF sensor to have a look at some graphing and such.

First, connecting the negative lead to the negative battery terminal:

DSC01410.jpg


Back-probed the wiring plug, it's a 4-pin plug. I found the constand live feed:

DSC01408.jpg


Then i found the signal feed, this is showing about 1.4v at idle.

DSC01409.jpg


The meter was set to record, with snap-throttle revving once every ten seconds. Peaks were in the 2.8-3.2v range, with a dip below the 1.4v idle voltage when the throttle was snapped shut as the air passing through the MAF slowed as it hit the closed throttle plate.

DSC01412.jpg
 

Stick

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Having nothing better to do, i went and hooked the 289 up to the Golf's MAF sensor to have a look at some graphing and such.

While thats a great intro to backprobing, be aware that you can't diagnose MAF sensors based on voltages or frequency, unless it's a gross failure. The best way to diagnose a MAF problem is with a scan tool graphing out what the MAF is doing.

A couple good sensors to look at would be Cam/Crank, ABS, IAC (duty cycle).
 
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Moose-LandTran

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While thats a great intro to backprobing, be aware that you can't diagnose MAF sensors based on voltages or frequency, unless it's a gross failure. The best way to diagnose a MAF problem is with a scan tool graphing out what the MAF is doing.

Do you mean like live data showing actual air flow?

Either way, it's helping me learn how they work. :)

A couple good sensors to look at would be Cam/Crank, ABS, IAC (duty cycle).

I was going to do that, but was too lazy to jack a corner up and connect the meter to an ABS sensor..

No IAC on here, cable/electronic throttle, baby!
 

greasemonkey44

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Having nothing better to do, i went and hooked the 289 up to the Golf's MAF sensor to have a look at some graphing and such.

First, connecting the negative lead to the negative battery terminal:

DSC01410.jpg


Back-probed the wiring plug, it's a 4-pin plug. I found the constand live feed:

DSC01408.jpg


Then i found the signal feed, this is showing about 1.4v at idle.

DSC01409.jpg


The meter was set to record, with snap-throttle revving once every ten seconds. Peaks were in the 2.8-3.2v range, with a dip below the 1.4v idle voltage when the throttle was snapped shut as the air passing through the MAF slowed as it hit the closed throttle plate.

DSC01412.jpg
too funny man, :lol_hitti
that moose is killer, congrats on the new tool, im looking at an old vantage or a pico for a scope
 

Stick

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Do you mean like live data showing actual air flow?
Yep.

I was going to do that, but was too lazy to jack a corner up and connect the meter to an ABS sensor..
Lol, jack up the car... I hate getting dirty doing stuff like that.

I usually grab a signal at the ABS module itself under the hood. If you do it that way, you can test the sensor and the wiring at the same time.
 
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Moose-LandTran

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Lol, jack up the car... I hate getting dirty doing stuff like that.

I usually grab a signal at the ABS module itself under the hood. If you do it that way, you can test the sensor and the wiring at the same time.

In the absense of a wiring diagram, i need to drag my lazy *** nearer the wheel and hook it up at the sensor.

Meh, there's always tomorrow.
 

greasemonkey44

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While thats a great intro to backprobing, be aware that you can't diagnose MAF sensors based on voltages or frequency, unless it's a gross failure. The best way to diagnose a MAF problem is with a scan tool graphing out what the MAF is doing.

A couple good sensors to look at would be Cam/Crank, ABS, IAC (duty cycle).

i undestand the cam and crank, i also usually put on a fuel injector or #1 plug
but why the abs
 

diesel research

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ABS sensors are hall effect, like cam and crank position sensors.

They usually aren't. Usually are 2 wire AC generators. Some cam/crank/speed sensors are as well.

If you want easy test to display, could show diode ripple on the battery.

I wonder if a mt2400 is more or less "powerful"? I know neither are true scopes, they are graphing meters, but the mt2400 got by for quite some time.
 
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Moose-LandTran

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Think this is fast enough to do current ramp testing on an injector/coil/fuel pump?

Injector and pump, yes, i think so. I don't think it'll be fast enough to pick up coil current ramp, but the scope will be able to. (once i get a couple things for it.)

I'm at work, so i'll plug the meter into a few things and see what results i get.
 
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Moose-LandTran

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My other new toy has arrived! :D

Fluke 123, 2-channel ScopeMeter. This thing is mint! Didn't look all that in the auction pics, so i thought it would do me to learn on then i could upgrade in a few months if i felt the need to, but when it came today i was pleasantly surprised to see that it's like brand new! Even came with a (pretty expensive) 40-400A amp clamp!

DSC01419.jpg


Here i'm getting acquainted with it. Like the 289, it's very user-friendly and easy to naviagte. It's also compatible with all my other Fluke test leads as it has standard banana jacks (Also has a common COM port, and individual COM ports within the jacks.)

DSC01417.jpg


With a little reorganization i can get the 289 and my extra leads/accessories all in the 123's case!

DSC01414.jpg



Haven't used it yet, will start playing with it properly tomorrow. :)
 

eurokid

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Tacoma, WA
The 289 is a super sweet meter. I've got a 189 and a 97 scopemeter rite now and they're both mint. Soon a 289 and 196C scopemeter will be taking their place! I'm a test equipment junkie.
 
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