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My newest oldest lathe

Steve from Socal

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Jan 27, 2009
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Hutchinson Ks.
I picked up a new to me lathe on Friday and I am still trying to figure out exactly what it is but, I can say it is either a Monarch 13EE or a Model 70. It is actually the oldest lathe I own now being made in Jan 1955, it predates me!

This lathe is a bigger iteration of the Monarch 10EE and originally had a 20HP DC motor with variable speed range of 12-2000 RPM. It also has a very unique feature for 1955 called constant surface speed, this is where the spindle speeds up as the diameter is reduced to maintain a constant surface feed on the cutting tool. This machine has a 10HP AC motor with an inverter that works but, won't make top speed as set. The inverter is set to 88Hz max right now and it would need to go to 146Hz, that is pretty high and I am looking at different pulley options as well. These lathes were all DC when new and in addition to the spindle motor there is a hydraulic pump and rapid traverse motor, they have all been replaced with AC motors.

The reason DC motors were used in machine tools in the past was because they offered a 100:1 speed range and a wide torque range. It has only been common to use AC motors and variable frequency drives since the mid 1980's. By that time machine tools were primarily CNC and used servo motors and drives. Manual lathes reached the acme in the late 1950's early 1960's. These lathes the Monarch 13EE-1000EE and, Models 70-71 were state of the art in their day. It is alleged that these were actually a form of government welfare; Monarch was told to create the ultimate lathe sparing no expense and having no preconceived specs. The largest buyer of these lathes was the US government with most going to the DOE and, DOD. When new these cost more than a fine house in a good location.

I have a Monarch 10EE and Series 62 2013, these are quite a contrast, the 10EE is good for small work and the Series 62 can do small work but is an overkill with 20 HP. The new lathe fits nearly perfectly between them with about half the center distance of my Series 62 half the horsepower and just about double that of the 10EE. The trilogy of Monarchs is complete!

Now to get this thing running right and perhaps rework the CSS function.

Steve
 

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A_Pmech

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Very nice Steve! Things must be going well out there in KS.

Is it an inverter duty motor? Many inverter duty motors are rated to 120 Hz as standard. I think you'll like the AC drive conversion if it was done properly. :)
 

Packard V8

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Mar 16, 2009
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Spokane, WA
Yes, those are the ne plus ultra of manual lathes. Most home shop guys dream of owning one. A matched set of three is serious fixation.

Then, I know a guy who's wife gets hostile about his stamp collecting. Collecting Monarch lathes, well that's not a NYC apartment hobby. Maybe KS has the wide open space. Where do you house those?

jack vines
 

oldldh

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Fairhope, AL
Da boy needs lots of room!!!


And Kansas has a lot of space, of course the tornadoes do make it interesting...
 
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Steve from Socal

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Not what I was expecting. Very nice machine. :beer:

You were expecting an old conehead?

Yes; Kansas is wide open space and the machine room is about 10K sq ft, that is but a quarter of the space in the shop. I have a old post about the shop with some pictures but a lot has changed in the last year or so.

Industrial property is cheap here because so many companies left! Honestly though; industrial property is cheap in many places because of the same issues. Get out of major metro areas and a big shop is within reach.

I got the old girl in the general area but I have to move my 10EE, more pics to follow soon.

Steve
 
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Steve from Socal

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I'm guessing that this wonderful old gal no longer has those magnificent glowing thyratrons positioned inside.

Nope!

This it turns out is a 13EE; it would have had a motor generator for the armature and tube field regulation.

I spoke to Monarch today and learned it was indeed a 13EE originally sold to ARO tools. While the drive is all been changed, the mechanical systems seem to be in great shape. I have the manual coming and there are several issues to sort out. This should have three geared spindle changes and an open belt position. Right now there are only one reduction and open belt.

The original gear changes were via the gearing and switches shown below. All this has been sidelined in the conversion. There are some areas where the conversion is done very well and others where I am wondering why they choose that?

can't get pictures to upload right now!!

Steve
 
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Steinmetz

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Nope!

This it turns out is a 13EE; it would have had a motor generator for the armature and tube field regulation.

I spoke to Monarch today and learned it was indeed a 13EE originally sold to ARO tools. While the drive is all been changed, the mechanical systems seem to be in great shape. I have the manual coming and there are several issues to sort out. This should have three geared spindle changes and an open belt position. Right now there are only one reduction and open belt.

The original gear changes were via the gearing and switches shown below. All this has been sidelined in the conversion. There are some areas where the conversion is done very well and others where I am wondering why they choose that?
can't get pictures to upload right now!!

Steve

I'd love to have a look at some more photos. Thanks, Steve (my name, too).
 

Dave455

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I've never seen one of those in the U.K, but I reckon I can usually spot decent kit when I see it - and I'm seeing it now! Thanks for the explanation of the motors!
 
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Steve from Socal

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Let's see if I can add some pictures?

Steve

<table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td> </td></tr></tbody></table><table style="width:auto;"><tbody><tr><td> </td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From shop photos</td></tr></tbody></table>
ShopPhotos
 
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Steve from Socal

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I can add inline pics but not upload to the GJ server!

The missing gears are blocked on the shifting rack, in the above photos the prox switch is on the blocked rail.

Here are some more, clicking on any should take you to my shop pics.

Steve

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Y4jDyGjBshkeeoUDLVGqC9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GRBwL_FPHxg/U0xRpz7CZuI/AAAAAAAAASY/O49PEQ1q6mM/s640/20140412_163656.jpg" height="640" width="480" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/104481142326192595218/ShopPhotos?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">shop photos</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jCRG_lPYnCLC3bnPae0xVdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nX55e8VgiiY/U0xRrD_WLcI/AAAAAAAAASs/MPvR6TnHXoE/s640/20140412_163917.jpg" height="480" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/104481142326192595218/ShopPhotos?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">shop photos</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/K0RFZRMI1S8kLueVslAEutMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VaJYeBYv_hs/U0xRt1R-pEI/AAAAAAAAATE/DkdXoyc46Ek/s640/20140412_165921.jpg" height="480" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/104481142326192595218/ShopPhotos?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">shop photos</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oWs7WW8IAds3d-GB2RLXgtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vfs-_AkxdhU/U0xRrn-FNhI/AAAAAAAAASw/Us3WxU3C8-s/s640/20140412_163931.jpg" height="480" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/104481142326192595218/ShopPhotos?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">shop photos</a></td></tr></table>
 

Steinmetz

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Washington State
You answered my question already. That IS a proximity switch I see added into the mix.

Is that a new spelling for FORWARD, or does it have special meaning here (just kidding).

This is one magnificent old machine. I wish I had a little more room.
 
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Steve from Socal

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Jan 27, 2009
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Location
Hutchinson Ks.
I have a number of changes in the work for this old girl, after considering my options a major refit is in the works.

The lathe has a 10 HP 1160RPM AC motor with a VFD, the way the lathe is set up the motor trips if the spindle is at or above 1400 RPM on decel. The original three back gear speed ranges were obliterated by the installation of a PLC that shifts from open belt to low back gear. The low back gear is actually very close to the back gear of a 10EE, with a bit more motor that single back gear will be fine for my needs. The 10HP motor is a bit overwhelmed by the inertia in the spindle so I have a 15 HP 1750 RPM AC motor rated at 3600 V/NE on the way. I also have a new ABB 11 KW inverter to round out the spindle drive.

The rapids on this lathe are driven by a small motor and this was another area where the original system was adulterated by the previous owners. I have a form factor correct new Bodine gear motor for the rapids to replace the kludged arrangement there now. The correct rapid motor will also allow me relocate all the logic and controls to the base of the headstock. There is a cumbersome box on the back of the base that houses these now, it is a real shin buster.

In addition to the above I want to rework the operator panel on the right of the apron, it has some cheesy looking plastic buttons and a speed dial that looks like it came off a blender! Some nice NOS AB switches and the original knob from the headstock will make the old girl a bit more at ease. I have a few pieces left of the original constant surface speed feature, I will as time permits work on recreating that as well.

The basic mechanical aspects of this lathe are quite nice with little appreciable wear, it has a nice work envelope 16X54 that fits well between my 10EE and, 2013X102 Series 62.

Steve
 

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CRH

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Jul 21, 2009
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Location
Utah
VERY cool. I just got a series 60 13" Monarch. Intimidating, but super amazing.

Contant surface speed, now that is cool!
 
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