my Permit will be denied, what to do? Variance?

[nhra1256]

I need some suggestions and guidance. I wanted to put up a Pole barn garage. I got an estimate from Pioneer Pole buildings that fit my budget. I filled out all the paperwork for the building permit and bought sealed prints. I called the building department with a question before I submitted the paperwork and got into a conversation on just what was I building. I have approx. 31000 sq ft of land. My house, driveway, patio, pool and 2 sheds have covered about 6000 sq ft. The building department said they will not appprove the permit because I will cover more than 15% of my land, and that I may need to file for a variance. The building would be a 24x36x10 which would be an additional 864 sq ft. Technically, I'm over the 15% limit as it sits. I had my driveway lengthened and that put me over. Honestly at this point I'm lost. I dont know what else to do. I've never delt with a planning board and have no idea on the Process. This is in Washington Township NJ.

Any suggestions? Let me know if you need more info.

 

[Sundowner]

I need some suggestions and guidance. I wanted to put up a Pole barn garage. I got an estimate from Pioneer Pole buildings that fit my budget. I filled out all the paperwork for the building permit and bought sealed prints. I called the building department with a question before I submitted the paperwork and got into a conversation on just what was I building. I have approx. 31000 sq ft of land. My house, driveway, patio, pool and 2 sheds have covered about 6000 sq ft. The building department said they will not appprove the permit because I will cover more than 15% of my land, and that I may need to file for a variance. The building would be a 24x36x10 which would be an additional 864 sq ft. Technically, I'm over the 15% limit as it sits. I had my driveway lengthened and that put me over. Honestly at this point I'm lost. I dont know what else to do. I've never delt with a planning board and have no idea on the Process. This is in Washington Township NJ.

Any suggestions? Let me know if you need more info.

you're in NJ and you're having zoning issues. shocking.

You have two basic options as I see it, and depending on how flexible the town is willing to be:

1) Apply for a variance. Not fun. I've been there, it took me 14 months of aggrivation to build my garage and if I weren't a registered professional engineer, it would have cost me about $10k in professional fees to push it through. After the dust settled, It still cost me $2k in fees to the town for the various application fees and "review escrow" they extorted from me. I don't reccomend this path, but if you want to do it, I can offer some help with the paperwork and red tape.

2) Offer to do a land-swap. If you're 864 SF over the limit, then offer to give up some non-permeable area in exchange. Lose the patio, lose a shed, if you have an asphalt driveway, offer to tear it out and replace it with pavers or turfstone grids. You can always add those features back later. I've seen lots of sheds show up from the back of a truck and a lot of patios get built in a way that does not require a permit.


first, make SURE that your patio, pool, and sheds actually count as lot coverage, in some towns, they don't, and inspectors sometimes 'forget' those points when they want to hassle you.

 

[nhra1256]

I was thinking of the land swap thing. It kills me to have to tear up my beautiful patio and make my shed disappear and cover my driveway with dirt. And your right about the extortion. They want $750 in fees and there no guarantee that things will go my way. If it were not for the decent schools, I would leave NJ in a second.

On top of all that my taxes jumped $1800 this year due to a township wide re-assessment.

what did you have to provide for the variance? I have no idea what they (the Planning board) does...

 

[Sundowner]

I was thinking of the land swap thing. It kills me to have to tear up my beautiful patio and make my shed disappear and cover my driveway with dirt. And your right about the extortion. They want $750 in fees and there no guarantee that things will go my way. If it were not for the decent schools, I would leave NJ in a second.

On top of all that my taxes jumped $1800 this year due to a township wide re-assessment.

what did you have to provide for the variance? I have no idea what they (the Planning board) does...

lol. three weeks after I finished the garage I got a tax bill for an additional $130/quarter in increased taxes. I can't wait until the 2nd floor addition is done.

for the variance, in my town, I had to cut them the escrow check and fill out about 15 pages of application forms. You also have to send certified letters to your neighbors and post an ad in the paper about your application. Then they put you on the zoning board docket, which could take up to 90 days. IF you're lucky, and they're a nice bunch, and non of your neighbors puts up a fuss, they'll let you slide on the first or second monthly meeting, and you can build 90 days after that, when they approve the variance. You shoud expect this process to take about 6-9 months, so be patient.

some people hire engineers and lawyers to represent them at these meetings, it's that serious. Some towns are more informal and are offended when you bring in representation, so go to a few of your town's zoning meetings and get a feel for the local process before you commit to a variance applicaiton

at the meeting, you will have to prove hardship to the board. If they're fair, something like proving that a good number of your neighbors have the same or more coverage that you want to have on your property. You should take the time to prepare a good sketch of what you want to build so they can see it and know it's not going to be an eyesore.

At my meeting, I had twenty-six (26) neighbors who also had garages and I had detailed drawings of the garage I wanted to build. In the end, they didn't move an inch until I made a Dr. Emmit Brown quality scale model of the house with the garage on it. Then they relented.

A variance is doable for you, but it's not easy. If you lose your fight, you lose your $750 escrow, and if you want to appeal, it goes before the NJ Supreme Court as you vs. Washington Township.

*****, huh?

 

[autoist]

Ah...north Alabama!

 

[RbrtAWhyt]

I need some suggestions and guidance. I wanted to put up a Pole barn garage. I got an estimate from Pioneer Pole buildings that fit my budget. I filled out all the paperwork for the building permit and bought sealed prints. I called the building department with a question before I submitted the paperwork and got into a conversation on just what was I building. I have approx. 31000 sq ft of land. My house, driveway, patio, pool and 2 sheds have covered about 6000 sq ft. The building department said they will not appprove the permit because I will cover more than 15% of my land, and that I may need to file for a variance. The building would be a 24x36x10 which would be an additional 864 sq ft. Technically, I'm over the 15% limit as it sits. I had my driveway lengthened and that put me over. Honestly at this point I'm lost. I dont know what else to do. I've never delt with a planning board and have no idea on the Process. This is in Washington Township NJ.

Any suggestions? Let me know if you need more info.

Move away from the Peoples Republic of NJ...

 

[slick57]

I left NJ over 6yrs ago.....TX is where I should have moved 20+ yrs ago.

 

[Sundowner]

<sigh>
there are good things about NJ that go with the bad.
yes, there are a lot of hoops to junp through, but most of the hoops are there to protect people and their property. I, for example, live on a lake. Many of the rules I had to dance around are there to make sure the lake stays clean so that 10 years from now, my kids can enjoy swimming in it or sailing on it in the same way I do today.

I did not always feel this way, but I've been a lot of places, like China, where there's no rules protecting anyone, and it's disgusting and unsafe there for that very reason

The town's planned intention is to keep the town rural, and I respect that. If I wanted row houses up and down the street like Newark, I'd live in Newark.

The biggest problem we face in my town is that it's very nice and lots of people want to move there beucase it's nice. They're willing to shove everyone out of the way a little bit until there's nothing left and it's not nice anymore. Then they'll all probably want to move somewhere else. One way to correct this problem is population control. Some get in a real snit over that, so they just try to be ballbusters instead about building anything.

this is the view from my backyard. If I gotta put up with some grief so everyone keeps it nice, then so be it:

 

[floyd]

Looks like there's plenty of room for a Walmart on the other shore...

Seriously, I agree with everything you say.

 

[rocketman]

If I had a back yard like yours, I wouldn't need or want a garage. I'd be planning a boathouse!!

Very nice...

 

[sparky1562]

Makes me glad I live in Tennessee! I just tell them it is for agricultural use and build it!

 

[Hurricane]

you might want to inquire about the reason they only want 15% coverage. It may have to do with water runoff and overloading of your storm sewer system.
I have no idea what your situation is, but if that were the case, a retention pond somewhere at the lowest section of your property, would be a fairly cheap proposition. In the midwest, we even build retention ponds underneath of parking lots for this exact reason. the whole area is excavated and a concrete box is poured, then paved over.

 

[hidollartoys]

Just apply for the variance and write the check. If you have already used up your alotted coverage then you either have to give up the patio(and other things) or the garage. Or move.

 

[NRChopshop]

lots of states have good schools. If thats all thats holding you back then move.

 

[autoist]

<sigh>
there are good things about NJ that go with the bad.
yes, there are a lot of hoops to junp through, but most of the hoops are there to protect people and their property. I, for example, live on a lake. Many of the rules I had to dance around are there to make sure the lake stays clean so that 10 years from now, my kids can enjoy swimming in it or sailing on it in the same way I do today.

I did not always feel this way, but I've been a lot of places, like China, where there's no rules protecting anyone, and it's disgusting and unsafe there for that very reason

The town's planned intention is to keep the town rural, and I respect that. If I wanted row houses up and down the street like Newark, I'd live in Newark.

The biggest problem we face in my town is that it's very nice and lots of people want to move there beucase it's nice. They're willing to shove everyone out of the way a little bit until there's nothing left and it's not nice anymore. Then they'll all probably want to move somewhere else. One way to correct this problem is population control. Some get in a real snit over that, so they just try to be ballbusters instead about building anything.

this is the view from my backyard. If I gotta put up with some grief so everyone keeps it nice, then so be it:

Looks like north Alabama but without all the ****! And there are lots like yours all over the area!

 

[jtrace]

hey Sun, if I had a yard like that I'd stay in Jersey.. But my area's getting kinda bad, Plainfield is closing into my section of Piscataway, If I had kids I wouldn't send them to public schools here all schools I went to (grad. 88).I worry about my garage nightly I have alot of race car fab. tools in there plus close to $100,000 of Snap On tools.But then I have guns but thats another story in this state.. Looking to head to central Tennesse or North west South Carolina ASAP


John

 

[dwilliams35]

Man, I'm glad I live where I do: if I want it, I build it. Sometimes the inspector complains, but then I tell her that I'll take her out to eat tonight and she drops the issue.

 

[Ironcrow]

How many square feet in the driveway? Can you pull out the driveway, build the shop, and then replace the driveway with that new permeable concrete? Get the whole project done without need for variance

 

[nhra1256]

I'm heading out to Re-measure everything again. I'll post up the sq ft areas of everything when I'm done. I'll be back on line tomorrow.

 

[tdkkart]

The driveway counts against your total?? WTF?? Does the grass count too???

 

[pmiranda]

The driveway counts against your total?? WTF?? Does the grass count too???

Most driveways don't absorb rainfall. They count for a reason.
When I was looking at some lots here in Austin, TX I'd have to use pavers or "grasscrete" driveway to meet the impervious cover numbers with a big garage.

 

[burger]

nhra: Consider replacing your driveway with concrete ribbons if that is an option. You would be surprised at how much square footage a solid driveway eats up.

Oaklyn, NJ's impervious coverage is set at 50%. The day I moved into my house, our coverage was 56%, or 6% over the limit. This was bad news when I wanted to replace my 18x18 garage with a 24x24. To make things work, I replaced the solid 9' wide driveway with two 2' strips. Even with the larger garage and a wider apron, this REDUCED our coverage to 52%. The zoning board agreed that it was an improvement and let my variance pass.


Hope this helps,
Ed

 

[Sundowner]

I'm heading out to Re-measure everything again. I'll post up the sq ft areas of everything when I'm done. I'll be back on line tomorrow.

any news?

which Washington NJ do you live in, I think there are like 2-3 of them.

 

[wakerider]

Sundowner - "first, make SURE that your patio, pool, and sheds actually count as lot coverage, in some towns, they don't, and inspectors sometimes 'forget' those points when they want to hassle you."

To follow up on this advice, here in PA, you are typically allowed a certain % of building coverage and a % of overall impervious coverage. The building coverage would be your house and garage (maybe sheds and patio?) and the impervious coverage would be your driveway, sidewalks, etc.

You should be able to find out these percentages from your township's land development / zoning ordinances. (check there website (free) or get a copy from the office ($)).

To me it sounds like the 15% may be the allowable building coverage.

Hope this helps. Good luck

 

[wakerider]

I just noticed you posted the township in your post. Based on the ordinance from there website, if you live in the Rural Zoning, 15% is the total impervious coverage limit.

Looks like you might have been given accurate info. from your phone call with the township.

Gregg