My Pex-Al-Pex Air Install
- Thread starter raf0419
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Sticks McGee
Well-known member
Very nice...
Don't wanna hijack but a good friend of mine ran his whole garage in PVC pipe and says he has zero issues with it..Anybody have an opinion on this? I have yet to run anything in my garage yet..
thanks
Sticks
Don't wanna hijack but a good friend of mine ran his whole garage in PVC pipe and says he has zero issues with it..Anybody have an opinion on this? I have yet to run anything in my garage yet..
thanks
Sticks
Notgrownup
Well-known member
PVC has been used for years by a lot of people but apparently it can deteriorate and blow in your face....haven't seen it happen yet but apparently it can happen.
PVC would be a less expensive route for sure but with all of the connection points and joints and the fast that I am unsure it would hold as much PSI as the PEX, I am going to go the PEX route. This was a very helpful thread to read feedback on for my upcoming project.
I found a very useful table on PVC pipe and PSI ratings for reference:
http://www.harvel.com/technical-support-center/product-specifications/pvc-pipe-schedule-40
Sorry but you're clueless about PVC. It is NOT suitable for airline system !! No where in your "tech specs" above does it say you can use pvc for compressed air.
This subject has been covered a MILLION times on GJ that PVC is NOT Safe for airline system, and OSHA will shut you down if you use for business.
Google > > > > > pvc airline site:garagejournal.com
Here's just one cite by OSHA about dangers of pvc for airline system . . . READ !!
https://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html
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Sticks McGee
Well-known member
Thanks!!
When he told me that I was kinda taken back and had my doubts.
Sticks
When he told me that I was kinda taken back and had my doubts.
Sticks
The NEC prohibits using any race way (conduit) from being used to support any other device not part of that system.
I run into this all the time in some of the buildings I work in.
You are one classy individual calling people names on the Internet..... I also said I would not use PVC but it sounded like someone previously stated they would and if you are going to do it incorrectly with brittle plastic, they might want to know the PSI specs. Talk about reading..... This is a forum to assist people, not beraiding people.
Notgrownup
Well-known member
I had typed a great long something to say about this but it ain't worth it... Have a good day.
Notgrownup
Well-known member
My son in law has PVC in his shop, it's the 600 psi rated pipe, he has used it for about 10 years now with no issues... I am pretty sure for casual use it would do fine, I went with he Rapidair small pipe system... I will have 3 drops with drains and a reel at the compressor itself. I am enclosing it in the wall so it will be sight unseen... I will have it up this weekend... That PEX system looks nice...
I was going to go with copper but decided the rapidair was sufficient for me.
So WHEN you going to take action convince SIL to replace PVC . . . . when your daughter gets plastic shrapnel in her eye ??
Or when grandson / granddaughter riding tri-cycle bumps into PVC airline and gets plastic shrapnel in their face ???
People who consider using PVC for airline system are clueless because it's been proven over and over that PVC is dangerous as airline. Sorry if whiney guy doesn't like it . . . . .
. . . but that's the FACTS Jack !!
Here's fellow GJer just yesterday having a PVC airline explode into shrapnel pieces !!
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278080
FYI: The 600 psi rating for PVC is for WATER . . . has nothing to do with air, and PVC is NOT suitable for compressed air system !!
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dbabicky
Well-known member
So WHEN you going to take action convince SIL to replace PVC . . . . when your daughter gets plastic shrapnel in her eye ??
Or when grandson / granddaughter riding tri-cycle bumps into PVC airline and gets plastic shrapnel in their face ???
People who consider using PVC for airline system are clueless because it's been proven over and over that PVC is dangerous as airline. Sorry if whiney guy doesn't like it . . . . .
. . . but that's the FACTS Jack !!
Here's fellow GJer just yesterday having a PVC airline explode into shrapnel pieces !!
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278080
FYI: The 600 psi rating for PVC is for WATER . . . has nothing to do with air, and PVC is NOT suitable for compressed air system !!
Get over your self ! You can help people without being an *******.
Abeo
Well-known member
Anyone have Pex-Al_Pex specs for compressed air?
I see it quoted as safe and rated for compressed air, but haven't actually found specs on it
http://www.lowesforpros.com/Construction-and-Contractors/Get-to-Know-PEX
I see it quoted as safe and rated for compressed air, but haven't actually found specs on it
http://www.lowesforpros.com/Construction-and-Contractors/Get-to-Know-PEX
ishiboo
Well-known member
Wow, this went down hill fast. dbabicky and GP0256 to the timeout chairs!
Nobody is going to win a pro-PVC date on the GJ. The caveats of PVC for compressed air are well known and documented here in dozens of threads.
Let's get this back on track.
Nobody is going to win a pro-PVC date on the GJ. The caveats of PVC for compressed air are well known and documented here in dozens of threads.
Let's get this back on track.
ishiboo
Well-known member
Check the docs from each manufacturer. Rapidair is similar to both, the regular product is HDPE, the Maxline is a HDPE-aluminum-HDPE sandwich. You can use PEX as well, it's not rated though and it's subject to UV. The thing is when PEX breaks it splits, whereas PVC shatters... especially when it's cold and subject to physical damage.
Hell... use braided PVC tubing for an air line is even fine from a safety perspective. If it's damaged it simply leaks.
Not being an *******. Just educating that using PVC for airline is clueless.
If I was draping my long-sleeve unbuttoned shirt over a lathe, then I'd be expected to be called clueless myself, and called out on it by fellow GJer's. If I was pushing all my wood pieces over table saw with my fingers, instead of using a pushstick, then I'd expect to be called clueless. If I always kept table saw blade at 3 inches above the table to cut 1/2" thick material, then I'd expect fellow GJer's to call me clueless. Get the picture.
Now back to normal programming . . . this Pex-Al-Pex is good entry level airline system and eliminate any crazy ideas for people continuing to use PVC.
wolverine22391
Well-known member
The aluminum that is sandwich between the hdpe what is its purpose, compared to regular pec with out it.
I planed on using this from Menards.
http://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...t-pex-al/3-4-x-100-coil/p-1972832-c-13425.htm
I planed on using this from Menards.
http://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...t-pex-al/3-4-x-100-coil/p-1972832-c-13425.htm
Notgrownup
Well-known member
Not being an *******. Just educating that using PVC for airline is clueless.
If I was draping my long-sleeve unbuttoned shirt over a lathe, then I'd be expected to be called clueless myself, and called out on it by fellow GJer's. If I was pushing all my wood pieces over table saw with my fingers, instead of using a pushstick, then I'd expect to be called clueless. If I always kept table saw blade at 3 inches above the table to cut 1/2" thick material, then I'd expect fellow GJer's to call me clueless. Get the picture.
Now back to normal programming . . . this Pex-Al-Pex is good entry level airline system and eliminate any crazy ideas for people continuing to use PVC.
It's the way you do it.... You ARE NOT very tactful with words and you come across as ....We are for most part grown ups in here and don't need to talked to like we're some bunch of freaking idiots... SO OK, we know PVC isn't manufactured for AIr. WE GET IT...You don't have to treat us like skool kids whenever we talk about it... SOme use PVC that is rated for 160 PSI of water pressure, I am sure if you constantly run 175 PSI of air on a daily basis it's eventually bound to blow...There is PVC rated at 600 psi that probably will last for a long time before blowing up...
^ ^ ^ You never answered question . . . . WHEN you going to help in any way to protect your daughter & grandchildren from risk of exploding PVC at SIL garage??
Instead, you expound the virtues of 600 psi PVC . . . that it "would take a long time to explode" when used as an airline system. Come on, that's ****. You're implying that it's better for these hack PVC airline installers to "shop around" so they find 600 psi plastic pipe, instead of 160 psi PVC!!
Give these guys an inch, and they'll take a mile.Plain & simple, yank down ANY "airline systems" that are PVC. If GJer's need pipe wrenches to put together black pipe steel, I'm certain GJer's in area would lend out pipe wrenches. I'd lend you mine if nearby. Need Ridgid pipe threader, I'd lend your SIL mine . . . . But not needed by your SIL as big box stores thread pipe for free. Sweating copper can be learned in a day, and again torches could be borrowed to put together a copper airline system.
PVC has NEVER been manufactured for purpose of airline systems. Only hack installs like my drunk former friend from high school still leave PVC airline systems in place - - he'll learn the hard way. Would be better to drape a Goodyear hose around the place.
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Notgrownup
Well-known member
^ ^ ^ You never answered question . . . . WHEN you going to help in any way to protect your daughter & grandchildren from risk of exploding PVC at SIL garage??
Instead, you expound the virtues of 600 psi PVC . . . that it "would take a long time to explode" when used as an airline system. Come on, that's ****. You're implying that it's better for these hack PVC airline installers to "shop around" so they find 600 psi plastic pipe, instead of 160 psi PVC!!
Plain & simple, yank down ANY "airline systems" that are PVC. If GJer's need pipe wrenches to put together black pipe steel, I'm certain GJer's in area would lend out pipe wrenches. I'd lend you mine if nearby. Need Ridgid pipe threader, I'd lend your SIL mine . . . . But not needed by your SIL as big box stores thread pipe for free. Sweating copper can be learned in a day, and again torches could be borrowed to put together a copper airline system.
PVC has NEVER been manufactured for purpose of airline systems. Only hack installs like my drunk former friend from high school still leave PVC airline systems in place - - he'll learn the hard way. Would be better to drape a Goodyear hose around the place.
They are right ...In the previous post... I just didn't want to say it.
Vegaman_Dan
Well-known member
One of the reasons I haven't gone the PEX route is that the hose has to be supported for any length and the radius for corners tends to be wide. The pipe is springy and more prone to popping free or being hard to work with.
And then there's reality.
Seeing some of the installations here have convinced me that it can do exactly what I want for a simple and easily modified or expanded system at a very affordable price. I am very intrigued and may have to go this route.
I appreciate seeing the installations and the information provided. That one brass shower head mount- what an excellent item right there. Put a right angle output to have a drain drop leg and a quick disconnect and that would be quite ideal indeed for the drops.
I am liking this approach.
And then there's reality.
Seeing some of the installations here have convinced me that it can do exactly what I want for a simple and easily modified or expanded system at a very affordable price. I am very intrigued and may have to go this route.
I appreciate seeing the installations and the information provided. That one brass shower head mount- what an excellent item right there. Put a right angle output to have a drain drop leg and a quick disconnect and that would be quite ideal indeed for the drops.
I am liking this approach.
Thank you OP for the pictures and your descriptions. This will be helpful to me also. What is the furthest run you have made? and/or if you know what is the longest run this 3/4 will support?
To those that want to argue about PVC: get over it. If you don't like how someone talks when they are trying to help you not die, your priorities are misaligned.
To those that want to argue about PVC: get over it. If you don't like how someone talks when they are trying to help you not die, your priorities are misaligned.
EarniesGarage
Well-known member
I am new here and very familiar with how things can change very quick on a forum as I am an Administrator on a Mopar forum.
Now that I have said that, I would like it if we could get back on topic with the Pex-Al-Pex Air or PEX Install.
I have a shop that is in need of air lines very bad and I am very interested in the topic on this thread. I would love to see more pictures of what others have done with Pex-Al-Pex or PEX for air including what PEX fittings that are used. And Yes, I do know PEX is not rated for air but........ enough said there. LOL
It would be nice if we could avoid talking about PVC and stay on topic, Thanks.
Now that I have said that, I would like it if we could get back on topic with the Pex-Al-Pex Air or PEX Install.
I have a shop that is in need of air lines very bad and I am very interested in the topic on this thread. I would love to see more pictures of what others have done with Pex-Al-Pex or PEX for air including what PEX fittings that are used. And Yes, I do know PEX is not rated for air but........ enough said there. LOL
It would be nice if we could avoid talking about PVC and stay on topic, Thanks.
volleyball
Well-known member
If you are an admin, you know no decent thread can stay on topic.
Shootingblanks
Well-known member
Personally I am glad I installed black pipe. Simple and stupid. Easy to install and tried and tested over time.
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Nekit- you're welcome. From a cost perspective I would have liked to have gone the 1/2" route. Unfortunately my bonehead "overbuild it" approach to things made me install a loop which was longer than 1/2" would allow. [emoji85]
Best wishes for a successful install!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Best wishes for a successful install!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
alan camby
Well-known member
What about UV light. I have read that a roll of pex can be considered trash if it has two weeks of sun exposure.
dfiler2
Well-known member
The UV question is probably a good one, I have never heard of the 2 week in sunlight concern but it is plastic.
My concern is more with using the Pex-Al-Pex, the company I have worked for for more than 20 years was approached by a Pex-Al-Pex tubing manufacturer about 17 years ago. This was one of the first Pex-Al-Pex products on the market. The tubing we sell is used mainly for in floor heating and our concern was the difference in expansion and contraction of the two different materials so we choose not to use it. This was right at the beginning of the Heat-Way lawsuits. The Pex-Al-Pex and fittings did start failing after a while, however, most of the failures were caused by electrolysis occurring because of the contact between the aluminum and the brass fittings. You can search for Pex-Al-Pex lawsuits and find many. That being said we are currently using thousands of feet of 1" oxygen barrier Pex as airlines. The company has an excellent safety record and we are involved in a program where OSHA has agreed to not make unannounced visits as long as we continue to follow some state guide lines. I only point this out because of the safety questions about using Pex for airlines. There are lots of articles on the lawsuits concerning Pex-Al-Pex. I'm not saying it shouldn't be used for airlines and it may be just fine. I know it is much easier to keep straight and makes for a neater install, I would be a little concerned about the continual expansion and contraction of the two materials over time.
My concern is more with using the Pex-Al-Pex, the company I have worked for for more than 20 years was approached by a Pex-Al-Pex tubing manufacturer about 17 years ago. This was one of the first Pex-Al-Pex products on the market. The tubing we sell is used mainly for in floor heating and our concern was the difference in expansion and contraction of the two different materials so we choose not to use it. This was right at the beginning of the Heat-Way lawsuits. The Pex-Al-Pex and fittings did start failing after a while, however, most of the failures were caused by electrolysis occurring because of the contact between the aluminum and the brass fittings. You can search for Pex-Al-Pex lawsuits and find many. That being said we are currently using thousands of feet of 1" oxygen barrier Pex as airlines. The company has an excellent safety record and we are involved in a program where OSHA has agreed to not make unannounced visits as long as we continue to follow some state guide lines. I only point this out because of the safety questions about using Pex for airlines. There are lots of articles on the lawsuits concerning Pex-Al-Pex. I'm not saying it shouldn't be used for airlines and it may be just fine. I know it is much easier to keep straight and makes for a neater install, I would be a little concerned about the continual expansion and contraction of the two materials over time.
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alan camby
Well-known member
Scroll down to the disadvantages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linked_polyethylene
Welding would be a good source of UV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linked_polyethylene
Welding would be a good source of UV.
lol our plumber throws a big pile of it in the mud outside on every job. It gets 3 - 4 months of sun and is fine.
dfiler2
Well-known member
Very good information.
We used to paint any exposed polystyrene to protect it from UV rays.
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Got my 1/2" fittings today and they are pretty small ID .3". Thinking I should have gone with the 3/4", but I'm sure it will be fine. I'm running a loop system too, so in theory it is almost like have dual 1/2" feed most of the way.
I'm going with the cheap plumbing pex crimp on fittings...
From what I could find these crimp on fitting will only work on regular PEX. The PEX-AL-PEX has different dimensions. The only fittings I could find are the compression ones like used in this article and some that have built in crimp sleeves that are even more expensive.
I was looking into this and couldn't find if the Rapid Air Maxline systems are rated for UV exposure. They are High Density Poly Ethylene which I did find listed that black color HDPE pipes are best in the sun.
PEX is listed as not good for direct UV exposure. I'm thinking that in my shop they shouldn't get too much UV. If I was going to use them outside I would definitely not use PEX.
Not sure if this was mentioned here. Advantages of PEX-AL-PEX over regular PEX is that the aluminum layer allows you to bend and straighten tubing and it will stay that way. It also is a little stronger and can handle more pressure than regular PEX, although I think the regular PEX would handle the pressure fine. The PEX-AL-PEX just looks a bit better for exposed systems.
csp
Well-known member
No, you are coming across as an *******. It may not have been your intent, but that's how your posts read typically.
Do you see anyone else using multiple colors or different size fonts to get their point across?
Do you see anyone else throwing out google searches on every other thread they post in?
How about telling people to fill in their location when it has nothing to do with their question?
As was said, get over yourself. It's not your freaking job to "educate" here. Put your suggestions out there without telling people what to do and let them decide if they want to consider them or not. Just about everyone on this site is an adult. Cripes man.....
Apologies OP and I love your system! Nice work.