My planned Detached Shop Build

[pgtr]

In this thread - got some great feedback on dimensions... moving on from there - here's where I'm at on designing and specs for the new detached shop...


Here's some updates...
I'm planning to go w/ 24x27 interior dimensions with 10' plate height. It will have a hip roof to match the house (shingle or metal - TBD). I've reduced the window on the left side to just one - keep heat down (though there is a nice view) and increase wall-space. I'll go w/ an 18' door.

I'm going to have the contractor use the same spray as house in foam up in the roof rafters down to the soffits. I'll probably go w/ BIBS (or batting if I do it myself) on the walls. I plan to leave the ceiling unfinished to give access to the rafters for storage - when I look up - I'll see the goopy foam up in the roof but can store boards and what not up there...

If they don't already have plans to do it, I'll be requesting a concrete beam across the middle in both directions forming a '+'. I'm also going to spec a 'thickened area on the left/middle side to about 6" thick to support a potential future lift on that side

I'm going to put in a storage loft area somewhere. I might put it at the back where I might be able to put in a pulldown ladder. Or on the right side over the bench area. I'll hang it about 2.5' from the ceiling joists giving me about 7.5' below it - basically it will be an extra deep shelf for car parts and bike parts... - If on the right side - I'll probably be stuck using a step ladder to access.

I'm going to spec a lot of cabinet height plugs around the 3 walls and a few at standard (low) height. Plus some plugs overhead.

Walls will be drywall all the way up.

Lights - I don't know. Currently I have 4' flourescents screwed directly to my ceiling joists. But I wouldn't mind something new like LED as alon gas they cna readily mount directly to joists.

I plan to coat myself or have coating applied to the floor - like Sherwin Williams Armorseal.

I also haven't decided on some windows along the top of the garage door. It will be a metal door - perhaps a nice wood-grain stained look. But haven't decided on windows say across top row. Door will face towards house and southeasterly - no hot afternoon sun at least. It will have high-lift tracks and a wall-mount opener with wifi and smarthome integration capabilities.

I'll have them bring a data cable over and might also bring an old-school TV antenna coax over (I still like to watch TV off the air). No water (a washbasin will be in the house garage nearby).

I'll definitely put in a mini-split (for cooling in triple digit heat - (heating is NOT an issue)). It will definitely be on the left side somewhere. Maybe middle of wall near or over window or towards back - away from GA door.

I probably should put some insulating foam on the door itself too.

 

[pgtr]

Here's my current shop - it's definitely influencing my new shop for better or worse. It's only 22' wide (bit narrow) but 26' deep. I built this in the late 1990s. had the slab poured and then had a rough 'shell' built.

I took over from there. I was a lot younger. Inexperienced. Naive. But had the energy to do a lot more myself.

I finished up the exterior trim work, primed, and painted it. I put in soffit vents and eventually put in ridge vents. I stapled thick batting in the roof rafters then covered them in silver backed foam 4x8 sheets using those nails w/ large plastic washers (light and easy to handle up in the rafters by myself. I then taped up the seams w/ aluminum tape.

I did my own electrical work. I put in a 50A breaker at the main box (actually I may have repurposed the circuit from the swim-spa I removed?) and ran a 4 conductor wire (don't remember gauge) over to a new breaker box in the GA. I put in a 20A circuit for the lights and overhead plugs. I put in a 20A circuit for the window A/C (back in 90s I hadn't heard of a mini split). I put in a 20A circuit for the plugs on the left half and another 20A circuit for the plugs on the right half. In both cases the first plug got a GFCI. I also put in a 40A 240VAC for a possible future welder which I never got. Looking back I put in a reasonable # of countertop height plugs - but wish I put in just a few more. I also put a few lower standard height plugs - rarely but occasionally use. I also put 1 outside plug on each of the 3 outside walls. I also put in a light over the entry door, a flood over the GA door and ornamental lights on the sides of the GA door.

I put 2 sheets of OSB decking at the end over the GA door - works great for storage - access by step ladder (bit of a pain at times).

The reflective sheets up top turned out to be a great solution as they add some degree of light or brightness.

I put in 5 4' flourescents.

I did the drywall myself. The drywall itself went up fine. But I'm not great at taping and floating. And I'm worse at texturing - I used a texture roller and joint compound. It came out 'OK' - w/ flat white paint it's certainly more than good enough.

The little window AC I built into the back wall is surprisingly adequate on even 105+ days - there's only 2 windows - 1 in the door and the other on the opposite side and neither picks up afternoon sun. The garage door, which I never bothered to insulate, faces East, so no afternoon sun hitting it either.

You can't really make out my loft but it's immediately over the tracks and garage door itself.

Based on this experience - I'm toying w/ having the home builder just do the shell and all exterior and the roof foam and run the electrical to the shop. From there I might take over and do the electrical, lighting and insulation batting myself. I'm leaning towards having a drywall finish the walls though. THen I might coat the floor (or have it done depending on cost). In fact I might coat the floor before drywall so I don't have to worry about protecting the baseboards.

Anyway - here's a few shots of my soon to be FORMER - current shop - yes it's always messy inside. The metal cabinets I hung w/ french cleats - easy to move and to take w/ for new shop!

 

[matt_i]

Nice job on existing building!

My first reaction is that I think you are going to be disappointed with a 10' wall height if you want a typical 2 post vehicle lift. I would put that at 12' minimum.

 

[OptionalStop]

I build my shop at 24' wide x 36' deep and put my storage loft along the back wall. Underneath is a workbench spanning the length with localized work lights mounted underneath the loft. Looks nice, and saves space. Since your building is a little wider than it is deep, you might want to run your loft along the side wall with workbench underneath?

 

[pattenp]

What is the reason for the jogs in the walls at the man door? The added cost for construction of the turns and short walls you could just make the garage square and get more square footage and just use a small shed roof cover for the man door.

 

[CraigStu]

I agree w/ pattenp. All that wall building and complexity to make the roof work is expensive. A shed roof off the right side can provide shelter for the man door. It's inexpensive and could even be skipped and done later to help w/ the $. If a HOA requires a hip roof I guess you have to but...a standard roof can be built w/ half standard or storage trusses and the other half scissor trusses to give height for a future lift. For access to the attic or loft think about using a step ladder. Do the standard opening or a little wider, get a step ladder that matches ceiling height. Set it up to a comfortable position and screw eyes into the ceiling trusses at the side of the opening so they align w/ the peak of the ladder. Tie a piece of rope or wire to one eye, run it through the ladder and use a dog leash end to attach to the other eye. At the bottom attach a rope w/ another dog leash and run it to a pulley in the ceiling, to another pulley at the wall and down to a cleat on the wall. Pull the ladder up to the ceiling when not in use, let it down to access the above, and, if you need it somewhere else just undo two dog leashes and go. I found the step ladder much better and more steady than pull down stairs and having it for other uses was great.

 

[pgtr]

Yes - good point - putting the loft right over the bench area to the right - and I'll put some lights under the loft - down closer to the work surface.

Speaking of lights - since I'm looking to keep the rafters open and not finish the ceiling - any recommendations on lights? (The walls will be white and the roof will be sprayed foam inside - fairly light color and I am looking to armorseal the floor to a light color)

Currently I screwed some fluorescents directly to the ceiling joists. I had to replace all the original fluorescents fixtures years ago due to problematic ballasts (remember I did that back in 1998). The new fluorescents fixtures have electronic ballasts and the skinnier tubes. They do work fine. But I have cheap bare bulb fixtures and worry one of these days I'll bang something into one and glass will go everywhere. Don't know that I would really miss these lights. LEDs?

Anyway - any thoughts on lights? Thx

 

[pgtr]

Understood on the simplicity of a rectangle. The notch in front is there to allow for a recessed entry door - so it's not exposed to rain/water as much. And it gives some curb appeal. I'm looking at this as a 24x27 shop. I usually shove shelves in the corners if anything and I can put some of that in the bump-out so I don't lose/gain too much there.

The hip roof is there because they strongly encourage them and since hips are going on the house/garage - we do have match the shop to the house externally. I've thought about doing a gable at one one or another:

If I gabled the left side perhaps I could have them put a few scissor trusses in on the side I might put a future lift in. Or if I gabled the right side - I'd gain some overhead storage space above the bench. Always trade-offs.

 

[pgtr]

My electric needs are mostly pretty mundane stuff: increasingly battery chargers as I get away from pneumatic tools, a shop vac, a smallish compressor, soldering iron, drill, stuff like that... Good lighting and convenience is what I'm looking for.

For electrical I'm asking for:

Breaker panel

1 circuit of countertop height plugs on left side (some low plugs too). Maybe first plug w/ GFCI. How far apart would you recommend for the plugs?

1 circuit of countertop height plugs on right side mirroring above. (could also split this into a circuit for the 'low' plugs and circuit for the 'countertop ht' plugs too)

1 240VAC plug maybe somewhere in the middle of the back wall (this could be for a lift, electric car charger, small welder (I don't weld today))

1 240VAC plug on outside (left side) for a future mini-split (they charge too much - I'll do this install myself)

Some plugs overhead (drop lights or whatever).

Power for a wall mount Genie opener.

Couple plugs outside - 1 on either side of the GA door for whatever

Lights:
1 Left bay area
2 Right bay area
3 Bench overhead area
4 Back wall overhead area
5 Outside accent lights

Wiring Placement?
I don't like seeing a lot of wires overhead (plan to store boards and junk up there) and since I'm leaving the ceiling joists open/exposed - I mean to spec putting the wires in the walls or at least around the very edges close to the top plates of the attic space... In my current shop I pulled all the wires (exc overhead lights) thru the walls which was tedious now that I remember doing it. For lights - I installed switched plugs overhead and simply plugged the light fixtures in and stapled the light cords to the sides of the joists.

 

[pgtr]

Here's a more detailed layout...

Not shown is the loft or basically giant shelf over the bench area.
Spacing is 'just' enough to allow the largest car I might put in there w/ the longest doors to not bang each other.
I'll hang some metal cabinets at about 5f on French cleats - shown in orange.
Tool chest will be in middle of back wall along w/ a shelf for charging station.
I put cleaning stuff like parts cleaner bin in left corner.
Stuck some storage racks in front corners.
door is now 18f wide
Put a ladder roughly middle going up to mid-point where (hip) roof may be tallest - should I put some plywood up there...
Far right upper corner - maybe I'll put in a little slot car track or maybe just a comfy chair and mini-fridge with a TV! - that corner is kinda 'TBD'
I was tempted to put a window over the bench but decided against it for multiple reasons (lose wall storage space, will likely have glass in entry door to right, not much to see except elevated side-street which runs parallel to back wall, don't really want passers by seeing my tools every time they drive/walk by...)

Having said all that - I'm tempted to mirror the plan left right and having the entry door on the left side. There's awesome views looking left - maybe I'll retain a window over the bench in that case...

Comments on wiring above or this layout?

 

[pgtr]

Have the blueprints back from builder for the house and (shown below) detached shop...

I didn't include the ceiling plan as it's very simply: "10 Ft"

Question: Noticed they have 36" wide entry door (as well as the back and side entry doors to the main house itself). Is this the new standard? Our current house has a 36" front door and all the other exterior doors to my back, my current shop, etc. are all 32" and I have no complaints about those...

Question: Worth having a hose bib out there?

Question: What do you guys do about smoke detector if anything? (real problem w/ falsing I suspecting in a shop environment)

TBD/Actions/etc:

• Add outlets at BOTH 1F and 4F (countertop ht)
• Add 220 outlet at back wall (car charger, welder, who knows...)
• Add 220 at outside left wall for future Mini-Split HVAC
• Add additional outlet in ceiling (shop light, power reel, etc.
• Add pull down attic ladder
• Add CAT6 ethernet port for a WiFi hub
• Add TV Cable (coax) port for antenna (I'm old school)
• Finalize TV location (probably where it is)
• Select entry door (probably just a row of windows on top and solid otherwise)
• Specify wall-mount opener
• Specify high rise GA door rails
• Noticed hose-bib - not sure I need it but may just leave it
• No smoke detector: On one hand I'd like to know if there's a fire but on the other - tinkering on cars, soldering, etc. means a lot of falses.
• Determine approximate location of future 2-post lift and thicken concrete in that area to about 6 In.
• Insulation: roof - foam; walls - batting; maybe foam panels on GA door

Ceiling - leave open rafters, no drywall for access to boards, large parts, etc. I'll probalby put 'some' decks up above for storage. Probably need to ensure the electrician doesn't pull wires tight across rafters and routes them thru walls or around perimeter of attic space...

Just noticed the dimensions suggest the 27x24 are outside measurements - had thought those were inside measurements...

Any comments welcome... thanks,