To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

My Porcelain Tile Install

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
Last summer we bought a modern house we've always wanted. Wanted a bigger garage but this is pretty much as good as gets in Miami. The garage had been painted with H&C when it was built in 2007. For anyone thinking of going this route, you can see what it looks like five years later. In any event, over the last 6 months we got the rest of the house sorted. Now it's my turn to fix up the garage. I already put up racks across the ceiling, now the floors, then the entire back wall will be filled with blue Saber cabinets and work bench, flat screen, compressor, mini split, etc., etc.

I put down uCoat epoxy in my last house. It was a pain and I always worried about it coming up. Because of the previous coating, I was not in the mood to prep the floors in this house. I was actually going to leave the floor but you know how that goes. But then I thought about Racedeck. Close to $1500 to do my garage (minus discount). Then I started reading here and discovered that people had done porcelain tile.

I found my tile on CL. 12*24 inch concorde atlas italian rectified porcelain tile for $2 a foot. It's beautiful and the contractor I bought it from said it was $9 retail. He was going to use it for a commercial job that went south. He seemed a bit surprised it was going in a garage. Anway, good deal. Picked up 500 ft. Was going to install it myself but subs are so cheap here. The gc I bought the tile from gave me a recommendation for a tile sub who is going to do the job for $500 + materials. So we should be right around $1800 for this install--not a bad premium over Racedeck.

We bought 15 bags of thinset, 2 bags of grout, and Star Bond to apply to the surface--to help the thinset bond to the previous H&C coating.

Today, we chalked the center of the garage. Then he applied the Star Bond. Tomorrow he's going to lay the tile in a 1/3 offset bond pattern (thanks for the idea Dakota). Then he's going to grout on Tuesday.

**Finished pics are on 3**



This is now:

IMG_4002_zps2bdc9634.jpg
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2127.jpg
    IMG_2127.jpg
    80.9 KB · Views: 2,449
  • IMG_2129.jpg
    IMG_2129.jpg
    81.9 KB · Views: 2,260
  • IMG_2120.JPG
    IMG_2120.JPG
    121.5 KB · Views: 2,249
  • IMG_2153.JPG
    IMG_2153.JPG
    121.5 KB · Views: 2,633
  • IMG_2155.JPG
    IMG_2155.JPG
    134.4 KB · Views: 2,326
  • IMG_2124.JPG
    IMG_2124.JPG
    108.1 KB · Views: 2,597
  • IMG_2158.JPG
    IMG_2158.JPG
    121.1 KB · Views: 2,504
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

mobiledynamics

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
5,034
Location
Gotham City
Hi -

What does H&C coating is / was ?

Prior to all this, did you pour liquid on the floor.
You want to see the concrete absorbing water. Otherwise, I would have went with a light scarifiying of the floors.

I just googled star bond as I was not familiar with it. It looks like a Latex Additive...but that is usually poured into the mud that you are using.

Just some thoughts that came to mind. The only time I've seen *sealing* prior is just to seal the concrete with a specific primer -from the same manuf. when using SLC.

I've never seen a liquid *prep* prior in this fashion, fwiw.
 

Dakota00

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
1,078
Location
Woodbridge, Ontario
Hi -

What does H&C coating is / was ?

Prior to all this, did you pour liquid on the floor.
You want to see the concrete absorbing water. Otherwise, I would have went with a light scarifiying of the floors.

I just googled star bond as I was not familiar with it. It looks like a Latex Additive...but that is usually poured into the mud that you are using.

Just some thoughts that came to mind. The only time I've seen *sealing* prior is just to seal the concrete with a specific primer -from the same manuf. when using SLC.

I've never seen a liquid *prep* prior in this fashion, fwiw.

I agree with you, I've never heard of star bond either. After google searching this product, it's a latex additive that should have been added to the thin set mix. NOT applied to the floor before setting the tiles.

The products I deal with from Mapei just came out with a primer called ECO Prim Grip. Coat the surface and it can be tiled within an hour.
 

mobiledynamics

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
5,034
Location
Gotham City
bdamico -

I'm rooting for ya. But prep is KEY to tile.
It's not forgiving when you have bad prep.

In this pic, I can clearly see a crack.
You want to use some sort of crack isolation membrane/liquid on this...
Please make sure you substrate is prepped properly.
I'd hate to see this all have to come up.....
 

Synergy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
61
Location
Nor Cal Lowlife
On a side note, most building codes require water heaters in the garage to be elevated 2' or so off the ground. Flammable vapors (gas cans, etc) are heavier than air and sink along the floor and can be set off by the pilot light.
 

BRIANBB

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
394
Location
Katy Texas
It is probably electric.
On a side note, most building codes require water heaters in the garage to be elevated 2' or so off the ground. Flammable vapors (gas cans, etc) are heavier than air and sink along the floor and can be set off by the pilot light.
 
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
bdamico -

I'm rooting for ya. But prep is KEY to tile.
It's not forgiving when you have bad prep.

In this pic, I can clearly see a crack.
You want to use some sort of crack isolation membrane/liquid on this...
Please make sure you substrate is prepped properly.
I'd hate to see this all have to come up.....

There isn't a single crack. You must be seeing the chalk line.
 
Last edited:
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
I agree with you, I've never heard of star bond either. After google searching this product, it's a latex additive that should have been added to the thin set mix. NOT applied to the floor before setting the tiles.

The products I deal with from Mapei just came out with a primer called ECO Prim Grip. Coat the surface and it can be tiled within an hour.

First, the data sheet provides that Star Bond can be used as a primer, and it primiarily discusses its use as a primer, not as an additive to the thin set. .

Second, I had three guys come out and give estimates. All highly recommended. We talked about the surface and all of them said that the current coating was good without being removed.

The guy I hired couldn't finish his other job in time so now I have until Saturday to figure this out. I called him back up after seeing your post and he said he's laid lots of stone and tile in this manner and not to worry--I made clear again that cost isn't an issue and I'll remove it myself if necessary--he said not to. I understand the general advice is to remove all coatings--but I've had three contractors here tell me not to. Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
On a side note, most building codes require water heaters in the garage to be elevated 2' or so off the ground. Flammable vapors (gas cans, etc) are heavier than air and sink along the floor and can be set off by the pilot light.

This is electric. In the future, it will be going outside and be replaced with a shop sink.
 

BRIANBB

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
394
Location
Katy Texas
I dont know your current situation but I just recently redid the tile in our masterbath and found that the tile that was loose had overspray on the floor under them from when the doors and trim were painted. the rest of the tile needed heavy chisling to get up. I would it would be best if there was no coating on the floor prior to installing the thinset and tile.
I understand the general advice is to remove all coatings--but I've had three contractors here tell me not to. Thoughts?
 

mobiledynamics

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
5,034
Location
Gotham City
Prior to putting StarBond, did you pour water on it. Did it absorb....you want that.
Scarifying the top is a good thing....

I'm not a tile mechanic but it's a system approach.
If Star Bond says it can be used as a primer or should be....then in theory your would be using their brand of mud in which the ~chemistry~ is meant to mate. Similar to how you would be using a *system* from Mapei, Laticrete, Ardex,, Custom, etc. I see what looks like Versabond thinset. I would consider using whatever brand that is of that Starbond...but hey, I'm a system sorta guy - like to stay within the same chemistry...

But given the 2, without asking me what liquid I used as a primer, I would choose the Versabond. I know...2 conflicting senteces.
 
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
Prior to putting StarBond, did you pour water on it. Did it absorb....you want that.
Scarifying the top is a good thing....

I'm not a tile mechanic but it's a system approach.
If Star Bond says it can be used as a primer or should be....then in theory your would be using their brand of mud in which the ~chemistry~ is meant to mate. Similar to how you would be using a *system* from Mapei, Laticrete, Ardex,, Custom, etc. I see what looks like Versabond thinset. I would consider using whatever brand that is of that Starbond...but hey, I'm a system sorta guy - like to stay within the same chemistry...

But given the 2, without asking me what liquid I used as a primer, I would choose the Versabond. I know...2 conflicting senteces.

Ok. Let's just say you all have swayed me here. Why not just grind or scrape it off (assuming I can)?
 

mobiledynamics

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
5,034
Location
Gotham City
A concrete grinder would make that quick. But wait.....and I know you said this already.
Have you ran a screed or a laser line and checked the tile for square or FLAT. Does not need to be level but flat at least....

12x24 - HIGHER TOLERANCES of flatness. Less fudge factor
 
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
A concrete grinder would make that quick. But wait.....and I know you said this already.
Have you ran a screed or a laser line and checked the tile for square or FLAT. Does not need to be level but flat at least....

12x24 - HIGHER TOLERANCES of flatness. Less fudge factor

this rectified tile is as good as it gets--no bow, no nothing
 

mobiledynamics

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
5,034
Location
Gotham City
It's not the tile I'm talking about.
It's the flooring....

It needs to be flat. Not level but at least flat. The large format needs a higher tolerance for it to install. One single hump can throw the whole thing off..

Going back to the other post. It's all about prep
 
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
It's not the tile I'm talking about.
It's the flooring....

It needs to be flat. Not level but at least flat. The large format needs a higher tolerance for it to install. One single hump can throw the whole thing off..

Going back to the other post. It's all about prep

The floor is flat with the one high spot leading to the step that he said he can handle with the thin set
 

jhelrey

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
7,245
Location
MN
You are worrying about it too much. Just make sure he warranties his work and enjoy
 

Dakota00

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
1,078
Location
Woodbridge, Ontario
First, the data sheet provides that Star Bond can be used as a primer, and it primiarily discusses its use as a primer, not as an additive to the thin set. .

Second, I had three guys come out and give estimates. All highly recommended. We talked about the surface and all of them said that the current coating was good without being removed.

The guy I hired couldn't finish his other job in time so now I have until Saturday to figure this out. I called him back up after seeing your post and he said he's laid lots of stone and tile in this manner and not to worry--I made clear again that cost isn't an issue and I'll remove it myself if necessary--he said not to. I understand the general advice is to remove all coatings--but I've had three contractors here tell me not to. Thoughts?

Sooner or later the way things are going, the floor could fail. The way the contractor applied the latex does help if the surface is kept 100% clean and applied to an uncoated concrete surface. I don't believe that this guy has laid lots of stone and tile on top of an epoxy coating.

But under these circumstances the coating should be removed!! The thin-set should have latex mixed into it when applying tiles.
That's the proper way to go!!
 

mobiledynamics

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
5,034
Location
Gotham City
I suppose so. Just trying to help him get all the T and I's lined up. I just feel he's underpaying for the job (not that we don't like deals) and I'd hate for this beautiful tile to get ripped up down the road. At the rate per sq ft he's posted.......it's too good to be true. But hey, sometimes you have to learn twice, even if the price is right ....
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
I suppose so. Just trying to help him get all the T and I's lined up. I just feel he's underpaying for the job (not that we don't like deals) and I'd hate for this beautiful tile to get ripped up down the road. At the rate per sq ft he's posted.......it's too good to be true. But hey, sometimes you have to learn twice, even if the price is right ....

Construction is tough down here right now. These guys are all begging for work. Even the higher end is only like $2.50 ft. He's basically giving me his sub pricing. I guess I'll be removing the coating myself.
 

mobiledynamics

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
5,034
Location
Gotham City
Bdamico -

Curious to see how it turned out ;-)
Post some pics when you can.

I would have went with epoxy grout....

Seal the grout before you put stuff back in, fwiw
 
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
Bdamico -

Curious to see how it turned out ;-)
Post some pics when you can.

I would have went with epoxy grout....

Seal the grout before you put stuff back in, fwiw

I'm curious too. I rented an edco single disc grinder with strip serts. I also used a 7 inch flap disc on an angle grinder around edges. The H&C really really did not want to come off. Total pain.

They're laying tile now. We'll see how it turns out.
 

Attachments

  • tile 4.jpg
    tile 4.jpg
    70.5 KB · Views: 1,077
Last edited:

Turbota

Active member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
43
Location
Florida
Waiting to see the finished photos .... since I am going to be doing the same thing in my garage.

Replied to your PM.

Ron,
 
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
They finished most of the tile today. They'll do the side walls, front face, and step tomorrow. So far, looks really flat. He also went really tight with the tiles. It will be a very fine grout line.
 

Attachments

  • tile 5.jpg
    tile 5.jpg
    63.6 KB · Views: 1,432

ct71rr

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
478
Location
Massachusetts
Wow, that looks good. Those tiles are really nice!! I'm going to be laying porcelain down, as well...as soon as I pour the new floor, that is...
 
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
bdamico,

What happen to the 1/3 pattern? And why are the tiles laid vertically and not horizontal to the garage door?

That was my fault, assisted by a language barrier. We mocked it right. But when he started laying them, he screwed up the third row--and I sat and watched and approved without picking up on it until he laid a bunch. But I am fine with it. And I always intended for them to go this direction.
 
Last edited:

Dakota00

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
1,078
Location
Woodbridge, Ontario
That's cool, the pattern looks good don't get me wrong. Most important that the flooring is installed properly!

I get pretty good deals for tiles through my connections. But I've been searching on Kijiji Canadian version of Craigs list for tiles for even cheaper deals. I came across similar tiles as yours for a smoking deal but the seller only had 180 sq.ft. Where I need 450sq.ft for my garage.
 
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
That's cool, the pattern looks good don't get me wrong. Most important that the flooring is installed properly!

I get pretty good deals for tiles through my connections. But I've been searching on Kijiji Canadian version of Craigs list for tiles for even cheaper deals. I came across similar tiles as yours for a smoking deal but the seller only had 180 sq.ft. Where I need 450sq.ft for my garage.

Yeah. I threw my back out moving tiles the other day so I'm all drugged up. He laid the first row. Then the second row 1/3 down. Then he laid the third row 2/3 down of the second row (instead of 1/3). I'm sitting there thinking they're all offset but I scratched my head a little. By the time I figured it out, they were like seven rows deep. I could have asked them to slide the rows but said what the hell. I think it looks great.

He's coming in a little bit, and I'm trying to decide whether to have him do the baseboards.
 
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
Now have to wait for this weekend for him to finish. He wasn't able to pull off his normal job to finish it yet. That's what you get when you go with someone squeezing in a little extra money and I'm okay with that as long as it gets done before my wife kills me for having all my tools strewn throughout our house.
 
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
Well. They just finished. I paid him an extra $100 to do the baseboards and an extra $80 to do epoxy grout (I think he just wanted to get a little extra money from me at this point, which is fine bc he was so cheap) bringing my total to $680 for labor. I'll take some better hi res photos when it's cleaned up and daytime--but it looks freaking amazing.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2259.JPG
    IMG_2259.JPG
    63.8 KB · Views: 1,931
OP
B

bdamico

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
2,303
I think I already regret the epoxy grout. Got a good haze and residue on parts. I've tried a few things. The nanoscrub doesn't do anything. Muriatic acid works with a little scrubbing but it's a pain in the ***. Dakota -- ever used one of those epoxy haze removers?
 

jhelrey

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
7,245
Location
MN
The haze will wear off shortly! Don't sweat it!

Let's see a pic of the steps!
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom