Provincial
Well-known member
Secret fasteners that held "Fat Man" together?
My small but growing DBE wrench collection
- Thread starter BlueBomber
- Start date
I included the 3rd pic to ameliorate the thread hijack.I just completed a long-distance trade with a Canadian GJ member who shall remain as nameless as he wants to be, and, knowing my affection for weird stuff and wartime stuff, threw in this double-whammy DBE wrench for good measure. It was quite a cool surprise.
As you can see, that end with the Joe Theismann/Alex Smith/Dak Prescott-looking offset is actually double orthogonal, bent 180*, in parallel with the edge of the shank, with the service opening (3/8" hex) facing backwards. So it must have been used to get at something sunken behind a thin obstruction, like a sheath or guard, either by reaching it over from above or underneath. It has a small through hole. Typically with these kinds of twisters, like something in an aircraft engine compartment that is hard to reach.
The other end is angled from the shank, not offset, at 45*, and it is bent in line with the flat of the shank. It also has a 3/8" hex service opening, and a through hole, with a much shallower 3/8" hex opening on the back side.
The wrench is marked with the opening sizes ("3/8"), what appears to be a part number ("5CB848") and what appears to be a logo. An "F" inside a triangle, like so: /F\.
On the flip side it's marked "USAC" (almost certainly United States Air Corp) and what may be either "AFTS" or "HFTS". Until research proves otherwise, I am going with HFTS and Helicopter Flight Training School.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Hey we're two helicopter flight training school tools toward a full kit! Haha.
(If you want to avoid hijack hjinks in the future, just post in my Lugzsonian thread.)
(If you want to avoid hijack hjinks in the future, just post in my Lugzsonian thread.)
Provincial
Well-known member
I'm not sure where I got this DBE. It has no markings except the "1619" and the sizes. It kind of reminds me of Cornwell, but has a shiny finish. Most of the older 
Cornwell I have seen are not as polished.
Cornwell I have seen are not as polished.I know these Bonney CV single offset DBE's have been posted in this thread, but wonder if these qualify for a "you ****". These will be users and would appreciate suggestions how to preserve the 90+ year old "leatherette" roll from further deterioration.
1/2" (2816) was missing from the set above and I was offered this four piece lot for $20 that included a 2816, 2826, and short 2805 and 2806 CV's from another seller.
Vintage Bonney Tools Offset Wrench Set 2814 2818 2820 2822 2824 | eBay
<p dir="ltr">Vintage Bonney Tools Wrench set, box end with offset end, missing 1 wrench. Includes 2814, 2818, 2820, 2822, and 2824, which are sizes 7/16", 9/16", 5/8", 11/16", and 3/4". Wrenches are in decent used condition for their age, storage roll shows its wear from used and age.</p>
www.ebay.com
1/2" (2816) was missing from the set above and I was offered this four piece lot for $20 that included a 2816, 2826, and short 2805 and 2806 CV's from another seller.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
You're new, so we'll go easy on you, first offense and all, but #1 GJ commandment is, "THOU SHALL NOT **** THYSELF!"
Even if it's just asking or wondering...Unfortunately, there's not anything you can do, really, except don't use it. It's not leather, and there's nothing you can do to make it more supple, less crackly, etc. I have a bunch of them, for DOEs, tappets and ignition, and the best thing you can do is not handle it. If you;re really going to use the wrenches, put them in something else and only whip out that nice original pouch and your best Scottish brogue when you want to do a Show N' Tell with guests.
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That's a different "angle" and I never thought about IT that way. I need to find another way to earn brownie points.You're new, so we'll go easy on you, first offense and all, but #1 GJ commandment is, "THOU CANNOT **** THYSELF!"
Thanks for the advice. I'll just loosely roll it in a paper bag and store it for another 90 years for someone else to find.
Hi Jock. That's a Thorsen made wrench. I think Thorsen only used this numbering system for a short period of time. starting right before the war.I'm not sure where I got this DBE. It has no markings except the "1619" and the sizes. It kind of reminds me of Cornwell, but has a shiny finish. Most of the older
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I was gifted a Bonney leather tool roll and tried preserving it. Looked great after the refurb job but quickly deteriorated. Now it's shedding like a dog in mid-summer. Unless it's gold everything goes with time.
You could try Bic4 leather conditioner. I didn't know about it when I did my tool roll but it's great for shoes, handbags, jackets. I now have some and treat all my leathers with it. Even wallets. I learned about it from a cobbler on Youtube.
You could try Bic4 leather conditioner. I didn't know about it when I did my tool roll but it's great for shoes, handbags, jackets. I now have some and treat all my leathers with it. Even wallets. I learned about it from a cobbler on Youtube.
Provincial
Well-known member
Mr. X, thanks for the ID on the wrench!
Outlawmws
Well-known member
If real leather, Neatsfoot oil (not the synth blends...) I have a belt I first treated that I got in High school. its still in use and still supple. I retreat maybe every 5-10 years. I also used it on white gas lantern and stove pump leather and that's what Coleman provided was neatsfoot - its amazing how many 50-70 year old pump leathers still work...
Neatsfoot is extracted from cow bone marrow, so from a cow, to a cow... other things may have components that will deteriorate the leather over time.
If the fake "Leatherett" I think Lugs nailed it.
Neatsfoot is extracted from cow bone marrow, so from a cow, to a cow... other things may have components that will deteriorate the leather over time.
If the fake "Leatherett" I think Lugs nailed it.
Not as bad as I thought. First and only time I've seen and handled it was unpacking the set from eBay with black particles falling on the floor. If anything it's heavily soiled and the cloth pull straps are toast. No intention of using it for mobile work, although it may look nice to display the Bonney CV single offset DBE's in the garage. I'm a big fan of Wright's black denim wrench rolls for mobile work, and ordered a few from an eBay seller "when" they shipped free to Hawaii.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Hawaii - On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being literally falling apart in your hands and 10 being museum quality, that pouch is a solid 8.5! Trust me. If you want to see some 4's and 5's and 6's for comparison, just say the word. HAHA. I have some 8's and 9's, too, so trust me - that is a very nice pouch. It's only cracking at the bend.
Ahhh, actually still no.^ OK, HAHA.
So do I get at least half a "you ****", or an "attaboy" now?
Write this on the board 25 times in cursive.
"Thou shalt not **** thyself"
Provincial
Well-known member
Mr. X, thanks for the ID on the wrench!
Pennsylvania native Frank A Klaus (son of the middleweight boxer) and Kenneth Reiner (K&R) started manufacturing fasteners in 1942, received a patent for self-locking fasteners in 1943, and incorporated as Kaynar Mfg Co 16Aug1948. Merged in 1967 with Microdot, also an aerospace corp in Fullerton CA. What’s left of the company is now Bristol.
Fasteners - not a manufacturer of tools - so clues to the wrench will be elsewhere.
I think the complex part numbers resemble government/military numbers because they are descriptive - alpha-acronymic mixed with spec-metrics. Drafting template on eBay.
British aviation advert.
And their other fasteners:
Fasteners - not a manufacturer of tools - so clues to the wrench will be elsewhere.
I think the complex part numbers resemble government/military numbers because they are descriptive - alpha-acronymic mixed with spec-metrics. Drafting template on eBay.
British aviation advert.
And their other fasteners:
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Please see my previous post. I should have quoted before responding. Seems I can’t insert a quote retroactively; at least, I don’t know how since the great migration to WYSIWYG editing.
Identifying the precise geometry of the lobed drive broaches is probably the way to identfy the manufacturer. Is it LocRite, FlankDrive, etc?
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Hey Gang,
I have an interesting update on these!
I have an interesting update on these!
I am swallowing my pride on this set of round shank deep double offsets that I just picked up at the flea market this morning and cannot identify!
The italicized CHROME MOLYBDENUM MADE IN U.S.A. marking that was nagging at the outer contours of my memory banks for the past few hours is now just mocking me.
Apparently Todd's TRUTH was untrue, BlueBomer was on the right track, LesserSon is not an a-hole, and Don and I both voted against the winning candidate!
r_olson_06
Well-known member
I think AA just published an article on this subject. Can't remember who they proved it manufacture these.Hey Gang,
I have an interesting update on these!
Apparently Todd's TRUTH was untrue, BlueBomer was on the right track, LesserSon is not an a-hole, and Don and I both voted against the winning candidate!
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Yup. (You didn't read my last line!)
I was just on the AA main/home/welcome page for the first time in a long time when I noticed this update from them back in May!
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Then recently while doing a routine review of the 1938 None Better catalog, we noticed that the illustration for offset box wrenches seemed to have some faint markings. Getting out the magnifying glass, we found what appeared to be ... "Chrome Molybdenum" and two size panels! This piqued our curiosity, and remembering that None Better sometimes used Barcalo as a contract manufacturer, we next got out the 1934 Barcalo catalog. The last page of the catalog has an illustration of chrome molybdenum box wrenches, and close inspection found the same distinctive markings! With Barcalo confirmed as the maker of the mystery wrenches, we have moved them to their proper home in the Barcalo article.
To save our readers the trouble of straining their eyes (or finding a magnifying glass), we made a high-resolution scan of the illustration and extracted a close-up view of the markings. We're glad to have finally solved the mystery, and this exercise also confirms the importance of good catalog illustrations in rediscovering the history of the tool industry.
-----------------
I've been awfully hard on AA, and rightfully so, but credit where credit is due - I think they cracked this one.
I was just on the AA main/home/welcome page for the first time in a long time when I noticed this update from them back in May!
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Mystery Solved .. 14 Years Later!
May 2, 2021. Back in 2007 we found several "Chrome Molybdenum" offset box wrenches with distinctive forged-in "size panels" on the shank, but couldn't identify the manufacturer. With the hope that additional clues would appear (or that someone would recognize the maker), we placed the wrenches in our "Mystery Tools" section.Then recently while doing a routine review of the 1938 None Better catalog, we noticed that the illustration for offset box wrenches seemed to have some faint markings. Getting out the magnifying glass, we found what appeared to be ... "Chrome Molybdenum" and two size panels! This piqued our curiosity, and remembering that None Better sometimes used Barcalo as a contract manufacturer, we next got out the 1934 Barcalo catalog. The last page of the catalog has an illustration of chrome molybdenum box wrenches, and close inspection found the same distinctive markings! With Barcalo confirmed as the maker of the mystery wrenches, we have moved them to their proper home in the Barcalo article.
To save our readers the trouble of straining their eyes (or finding a magnifying glass), we made a high-resolution scan of the illustration and extracted a close-up view of the markings. We're glad to have finally solved the mystery, and this exercise also confirms the importance of good catalog illustrations in rediscovering the history of the tool industry.
-----------------
I've been awfully hard on AA, and rightfully so, but credit where credit is due - I think they cracked this one.
outofbounds
Well-known member
Just trying to do some sorting out, and what not, trying to be reclassified from a hoarder, to a compulsive accumulator. Laid out my short "stubby" DBEs for a quick roll call. There are precious few sacred cows in my boxes, but I do have a touch of a weakness for these types.
d42jeep
Well-known member
That seems like a normal amount of stubby DBE wrenches to me. I have more than a few in various brands, I’ve just never gathered them together for a picture. I don’t think that the dreaded H word applies here.
-Don
-Don
d42jeep
Well-known member
Okay. Live and learn. I’ll start looking for some.
-Don
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I have one of those BHM italicized NICKEL-MOLY's, OOB, and in 15 years of pretty active looking (in the wild, not online), that is the only one I have ever seen. They are coolass looking wrenches.
four.cycle
Well-known member
RE: "BHM italicized NICKEL-MOLY's"
Was the "Nickel Molybdenum" moniker used exclusively by Bridgeport Hardware?
Was the "Nickel Molybdenum" moniker used exclusively by Bridgeport Hardware?
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
In this hobby it's always a risk to speak in absolutes, but as far as I know, that's a yes, almost like a branding mechanism.
d42jeep
Well-known member
I agree. The only ones I’ve seen are Bridgeport.
-Don
-Don
four.cycle
Well-known member
^ I would agree that absolutes are most likely best avoided - you will recall that I thought "Chromium Vanadium" was exclusively an Indestro thing.
This being a generic "DBE" thread, it will be interesting to see what comes out of the woodwork.
In the meantime, until there's evidence to the contrary:
"Nickel Molybdenum / see Bridgeport Hardware Mfg. / "
This being a generic "DBE" thread, it will be interesting to see what comes out of the woodwork.
In the meantime, until there's evidence to the contrary:
"Nickel Molybdenum / see Bridgeport Hardware Mfg. / "
None of us are, never were, nor never will be a "hoarder". Hush your mouth.
'Compulsive accumulator'. Yep, that's it.
OP
BlueBomber
Well-known member
Beautiful collection, oob! Harken back to post #1 to see you've echoed exactly how this thread started more than 6 years ago!Just trying to do some sorting out, and what not, trying to be reclassified from a hoarder, to a compulsive accumulator. Laid out my short "stubby" DBEs for a quick roll call. There are precious few sacred cows in my boxes, but I do have a touch of a weakness for these types.
d42jeep
Well-known member
I wasn’t sure about this DBE wrench I found on Friday but a little more cleaning made the Ford logo clear. Probably made by Moore Drop Forging.
-Don
-Don
d42jeep
Well-known member
I don’t think I’ve posted these before because I couldn’t figure out what category they fit in. I know they aren’t DBE wrenches but they are pretty close. Anybody know anything about them?
-Don
-Don
I don't really have a vintage tool collection, unless you count those I purchased new when I was younger. I do have a M.H. T. Co DBE wrench ( 1 1/16, 1 1/8).
The wrench belonged to my father and I have no idea when or where he obtained it. I got it when he bought a new riding mower and the wrench didn't fit the nuts holding the blades. He passed the old mower and the wrench along to me. I no longer have the mower but still have this.
I don't know if this is definitive as to the manufacturer, but I found this on wrenchingnews.com:
"L" in a keystone logo
Lakeview /Lakeside Forge of Erie, Penn.
Source: Lakeview Forge company history and several old periodial advertisments.
The Lakeview Forge Co. succeeded the Lakeside Drop Forge Co. in 1925. Erie Tool Works is another division of the same corporation
Several wrenches seen with this logo including one marked "M. H. T. Co."
Edit: Pictures added:
I do have a M.H. T. Co DBE wrench ( 1 1/16, 1 1/8).The wrench belonged to my father and I have no idea when or where he obtained it. I got it when he bought a new riding mower and the wrench didn't fit the nuts holding the blades. He passed the old mower and the wrench along to me. I no longer have the mower but still have this.
I don't know if this is definitive as to the manufacturer, but I found this on wrenchingnews.com:
"L" in a keystone logo
Lakeview /Lakeside Forge of Erie, Penn.
Source: Lakeview Forge company history and several old periodial advertisments.
The Lakeview Forge Co. succeeded the Lakeside Drop Forge Co. in 1925. Erie Tool Works is another division of the same corporation
Several wrenches seen with this logo including one marked "M. H. T. Co."
Edit: Pictures added:
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four.cycle
Well-known member
Lakeside / Lakeside Forge, Erie, PA / http://alloy-artifacts.org/other-makers-p2.html#lakeside / https://toolarchives.com/node/200 /
( photo G. Roberts )
Very cool! No idea on the maker tho! Interested to find out who the maker is.I don’t think I’ve posted these before because I couldn’t figure out what category they fit in. I know they aren’t DBE wrenches but they are pretty close. Anybody know anything about them?
-Don