My Wolverine Floor

[GarageDetailer]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Wow is all I can say. I certainly know how much work you went through to sand those bad areas of the floor down. I've had my share of problems with a polyurea product (one of the reasons I no longer run my Coating Works business). I stood behind every job and ended up stripping several floors due to blushing, out-gassing, and a bad lot of material that lifted.

I have also encountered a few floors with moisture issue, and hydraulic issues usually don't occur overnight. Typically you will have lifting and bubbles where if you cut them open, water would actually squirt out.

To me, this seems like a strange reaction with the EnduraShield. I not keen regarding this particular product, but seeing how the floor puckered, it appears to be a chemical reaction.

With the repair job, I've had good success with thinning the base product with a compatible solvent so it becomes more self leveling. Then I flood the repair spot (adding slowing) until flush with the surrounding coating. I use a 1 1/2" brush to work the flow into the repair and edges. If the base coat is very thick, you may have to do this in two coats. Once cured, a light sanding (240 grit) then top coat the entire section ..... the repair is virtually invisible. You will have to check with Wolverine to see if there is a solvent you can safely cut the base with. I used Xylol with my products.

I understand the predictament you are experiencing and I wish you the best on an amicable resolution.

 

[Ruddy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Tough one to take, since Wolverine is the gold standard that you pay extra for to get the best.
Hopefully satisfaction is still in the future.

 

[R6 Racer]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

We don't see many problems with Wolverine & Alpha Garage, but it is only human to error! I don't judge companies by the errors they make (as long as the're not to frequent) but by the way they fix those errors! As someone considering doing my own floor I am looking forward to seeing how this turns out.
Not knowing whose fault this is & most likely never truly knowing where the fault lies this is most definitely a tough one! For all the obvious reasons I feel for both parties & hope things work out good for both in the end.

Condolences
Steve

 

[xrayos]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I'm also looking forward to doing my own garage floor. I thought about using the home depot stuff, but wondered what else was out there.

anyway, if I were the company involved, I'd actually, fly out to this guy's garage and see what the heck the problem was. Think about it, a $300-400 plane ticket and a couple of nights in a hotel should be max $1,000 costs. Then again, I wouldn't go out myself, but send someone I trusted to do the work. PR is a big thing is niche businesses.


BTW, how of anyone doing floors in NoVa?

 

[Dominico]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

WOW! Sorry to hear about your bad experience with your floor. After much research on epoxy floors I decided to have a professional (Hoover Wells) do mine. I to handle many projects myself with positive results, however I know my limitations. I figured there was too much at stake ($) if something went wrong.

As a matter of fact, when asking for opinions on what to do Fred responded to me: "If the guy is using decent stuff - you're getting a pretty good deal. I think that the fact that you have friends who are happy with his work and materials is a pretty good indication that you'll be pleased also. Pull the trigger and enjoy!"

Fred convinced me that based on my research I was doing the right thing however there is always the possibility of something going wrong (my floor turned out beautifully) "In no way did Fred try to convince me to use their product." I figured wow, this is a "straight up honest guy." I hope that he makes it right with you as customer satisfaction should be number one. My bet is he will do the right thing and find a mutually agreeable solution. Good luck!

 

[expat_dude]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Watching this thread as I am deciding what flooring to go with...

 

[haugy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I appreciate the thoughts everyone.

Here is where I'm starting to reach my threshold of civility and politeness.

I finally am able to park some things in my shop.
I pull in my motorcycle, and put the kickstand down. What happens? It scrapes the endurashield clean off. Needless to say I let loose a few explatives. I figured well I'm going to be pulling this bike in alot, so let's see what happens. I move the bike, and sure enough, it scrapes it clean off again. I check the kickstand, no rough edges, nothing.

I have not heard from Fred about this post at all, but would like to hear from him now. The floor was done, and I was content with moving on. But if the slightest thing is going to damage this floor, I am NOT satisfied. I spent $2300 alone on what's supposed to be top shelf material. I would like some answers.

And for the record, this happened on the material that has been there for 2 months, not the new stuff. I moved it to the new material, and it did it as well.

 

[thegarageguy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

This looks weird! This actually looks as if someone poured lacquer thinner all over your floor. Do you have any jealous neighbors or do they have bratty kids?

 

[haugy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Nope, and I keep my shop locked down.

 

[thegarageguy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

how long after the epoxy did you then top coat? And also, how did you prep for it?

 

[haugy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

The first time was at 22 hours. The second time was at 23:30. No prep work except to blow excess flakes out. Those were the directions I was given by AlphaGarage.

 

[Jeremy W]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

their has got to be something wrong with that endurashield clear in my opinion, it didn't even stick.

 

[haugy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

their has got to be something wrong with that endurashield clear in my opinion, it didn't even stick.

I agree. The kickstand didn't even phase the epoxy below it. Which is what I expected. From start to finish this Endurasheild has been a problem.

 

[ods dan]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

The only issue I have had so far was I dropped a heavy *** pin when putting one of the lifts together. It dropped from 6' up and has to weigh 4-5 pounds?? Solid steel. Well it chipped a little spot but it chipped all the way to the bondtite and was a solid chunk. I just mixed a tiny bit of endura and put some flakes on it and can't tell. I did scuff and clean the little area first. But no way does my floor do that. If it was me I would put the kickstand down a few times directly on the liquitile and see if you can damage that at all. That will tell us even more. That it is some bad endurashield.

Were the batches the same?? First and second time? Can they tell you??

 

[Tom2]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

If I were the business owner I would offer a full refund. The end result looks like garbage and that system costs a fortune.. I imagine racedeck would cost less, look better for a show garage, and be much faster to install.

I wouldn't be happy with anything but a full refund - This coming from someone who is pretty sympathetic to business owners.

The bottom line is he should give you your money back, and then he can sort out whatever the issue with the product is. No reason for you to be dragged into it any further.

 

[FFPL]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Were the batches the same?? First and second time? Can they tell you??

All my Wolverine had the batch numbers on the material containers so it should be easy to tell. I cannot image that Haugy was the only person to get the same batch. This seems very strange. That endurashield should be hard (harder than the epoxy). I was looking at my neighbors garage today that I did 2 years ago using endurashield and it still looks perfect.

The bottom line is he should give you your money back, and then he can sort out whatever the issue with the product is.

I would agree if it's a product issue but not if it's an application/prep issue.

 

[BillGalbraith]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I used Wolverine, and had some pretty good results. I had some strange bubbles appear in my epoxy coats, which I had to sand out. I have some ripples in mine, which I am taking the blame for, since I probably didn't roll it out well enough. The instructions warned against that, saying that it is easy to mistake freshly rolled floors, since everything is so high-gloss.

On the subject of having a professional do it, if you are going that route, I'm make sure that you have it IN WRITING that the pro will stand behind his work and the material. I can't imagine all the work the OP put into his floor, and having a pro that didn't fix the problems for free would be even worse.

 

[AlphaGarage]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

As mentioned earlier I'm looking into all aspects of this job - clearly something went wrong but exactly what just isn't clear yet.

We were first told that the clear coat was having trouble, but that the LiquaTile layer was hard and had no issues. That indicated something wrong with the EnduraShield, so we asked him to remove some of it and get back to us. At that point we were informed Eric wrote back "I opened up a section. See the pics. Its tacky, and if I press on the cut endurashield I get liquatile or something gray and sticky on my finger."

Now if the entire floor had soft LiquaTile then it'd be easy for us to figure that there might be a problem with that batch of product, but that wasn't the case; the client reported that about 25% was soft, and the rest fine. That usually indicates incomplete mixing. That's when we sent out additional LiquaTile and EnduraShield with instructions on how to patch those areas - essentially removing all the uncured LiquaTile first.

During that time we also looked into the production of those batches to see if there was anyone else who was having problems - there wasn't. That's why we were confident that the client could remove the soft LiquaTile and the replacement materials were sent out.

This thread was the first time I heard that their were problems with the repairs also. Throughout the entire job I've been in contact with Eric, so this came out of the blue. No doubt he's frustrated, and I'd be also.

This job had several things going on, and that doesn't make it easy to figure out what caused what. The primer coat had bubbles in it - that was probably due to it being applied in the morning or earlier in the day (the instructions say to apply the primer late in the day when temps are decreasing). None of it came up when he was scraping off the soft LiquaTile, so that indicates the BondTite was fine, but that needs to be ruled out.

Then the LiquaTile - again a floor with soft spots usually indicates a poor mix. If a batch of material had issues we'd expect to see the entire coat have the identical problem. That's not the case here, so we need to find out why.

The EnduraShield had reports of problems, but some of that could have been due to an uneven application, with too much material being used at the end - but that's not likely to be the problem.

We will go through the same process to see if there are issues with the larger batches that the components were part of, that will take another day or so. When finished I'll post details.

We've got a lot of very satisfied clients on this board - most jobs go well but mistakes do happen, when it's our fault we owe up, when it's driver error we help also. This case will be no different.

 

[haugy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Fred, you weren't contacted about the repair problems because it was pointless to be quite honest. The job was done, the floor is what it is. I knew you were out of pocket, and since I can only get a hold of you by email, there wasn't any point. I know your position on this. I just wanted to share my experience.

Again the thing that bothers me about this is how the floor was perfect before the endurashield application. I still don't understand how it can be hard, and then not.

 

[AlphaGarage]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Again the thing that bothers me about this is how the floor was perfect before the endurashield application. I still don't understand how it can be hard, and then not.

Eric, I fully agree with you - I also do not understand how the LiquaTile can go from hard to soft. That's why I'm taking the time to contact a few other people to see what, if anything, can cause that. I've never heard of that happening before, Wolverine has never heard of that happening before, and an independent floor contractor I consult with (who is a distributor/installer for numerous lines of coating) has never heard of that happening before.

With something this odd and unique it may take some effort to figure out. I noticed you posted a few pics that I don't have yet - could you email me all the photos of every step of the project? That might help narrow down the possible culprits - thanks.

Contacting me would not have been pointless - we do not leave a client hanging. I answered every call, every email, and will continue to do so.

 

[aqr81]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Fred, I read your most recent post and appreciate your position and desire to attempt to figure out what likely went wrong. At the end of the day, it's not likely you will conclusively have an answer. Many of us are certainly are interested in your findings and best guess on what happened.

Despite everything that usually happens and the number of satisfied customers, this one has a problem and the floor is not acceptable. I don't know what this customer thinks and how they feel at this point. I do know that if I had been through this, worked with you, did all the work again just to have continued problems; I'd be ready to throw in the towel. I would expect a full and complete refund. You would both loose; you for the product cost and them for the time, labor and frustration. Your loss is sometimes the cost of doing business, the customer assumes the risk when they DYI.

While you are looking into what may or may not have happened and if there is a product problem, that doesn't change the performance and condition of the floor. IMO it's time for you to offer a full refund and allow the customer to determine their next steps. That is what I will be looking for in this thread in the next day or so.

Eric has definitely taken the high road through this whole journey and experience. I believe it is now your turn to do the same for this and any future customers.

 

[yzman720]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

wow very curious to see the end result here....
I just joined the board as I'm going to be ordering my epoxy on monday and trying to decide who to order it from.
I also now have a new concern as I thought epoxy with a urethane top coat was the absolute best way to go but as said above Fred stated that could be problematic.....now im confused!

 

[aqr81]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I do believe yzman720 made my point on potential new customers...

 

[NUTTSGT]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

This coating failure is exactly why I never considered coating my garage floor. It scares me to death to think of spending that kind of money and having somethin ggo wrong.

I think both parties are working well to get this fixed. Eric (not me) has pretty much accepted this as a loss it sounds nad is genuienly upset about the outcome of the product. Fred want to find out the problem, not just throw more material on to the floor.
Maybe there is a meet in the middle somewhere. If Eric can get his buddy over there and grind the surface down clean for a fresh start and Fred maybe get one of his certified installers, along with new materials, to assist Eric in recoating his floor would be mighty honorable.

 

[FFPL]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Again the thing that bothers me about this is how the floor was perfect before the endurashield application. I still don't understand how it can be hard, and then not.

I doubt that it could be hard then not. I would suspect that it wasn't hard in the first place. That pic of the endurashield just looks like it didn't go off.

Given that you've had issue with the liquitile and endurashield from 2 different purchases are you sure you mixed this stuff properly and in the correct ratio ? This is probably the most important part with the epoxies. If it isn't mixed then it isn't going to go off. I found that when doing this it's good to have a friend with you to make sure you've followed the procedure properly.

Did you stir it with a paddle or mix it with a drill and mixer ? Was everything from the sides of the bucket scraped and stirred in with the mix ?

Do you have any mixing buckets left over to see if what's left in them is set ?

 

[haugy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I'll email them to you first thing tomorrow morning. I have all the files on my office computer. I know you have answered every email, and I appreciate it. But by the time I had finished with this, I had reached the point of frustration, and just gave up.

 

[haugy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I doubt that it could be hard then not. I would suspect that it wasn't hard in the first place. That pic of the endurashield just looks like it didn't go off.

Given that you've had issue with the liquitile and endurashield from 2 different purchases are you sure you mixed this stuff properly and in the correct ratio ? This is probably the most important part with the epoxies. If it isn't mixed then it isn't going to go off. I found that when doing this it's good to have a friend with you to make sure you've followed the procedure properly.

Did you stir it with a paddle or mix it with a drill and mixer ? Was everything from the sides of the bucket scraped and stirred in with the mix ?

Do you have any mixing buckets left over to see if what's left in them is set ?

Yeah, I used a fresh mixing bucket for each batch of the liquatile since you can't see the measurement lines once you use the bucket. I did have someone helping me. And they had me check the measurements for each time we mixed. The ratios were spot on. We then mixed for a minimum of 4 minutes (timed it in fact) with a power drill and the exact mixing paddle from the directions Wolverine gave us. I would go round and round the bucket, and on the bottom. Kinda like I would do when baking a cake.

I don't have the buckets anymore. But they were all solid when we threw them away.

 

[Rkfdspeed]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I'm also looking forward to doing my own garage floor. I thought about using the home depot stuff, but wondered what else was out there.

anyway, if I were the company involved, I'd actually, fly out to this guy's garage and see what the heck the problem was. Think about it, a $300-400 plane ticket and a couple of nights in a hotel should be max $1,000 costs. Then again, I wouldn't go out myself, but send someone I trusted to do the work. PR is a big thing is niche businesses.
QUOTE]

..Wolverine should look at this as an opportunity to stand out.

The cost to "find and resolve" the issue is cheap ..putting into perspective the alternatives. If it were my call I would have a "technical team" jumping to go..

Problems are inevitable..how your handle them is the hallmark of your business

 

[thegarageguy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

When you say baking a cake...did you whip it up good for 4 minutes or a very slow stir?

 

[haugy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

When you say baking a cake...did you whip it up good for 4 minutes or a very slow stir?

I put my drill on medium speed. I didn't want to get air bubbles from full on speed, but it wouldn't mix at low speed either. The cake analogy was in reference to getting all the mix on the sides and the bottom.

 

[PaulR]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Not to defend Wolverine or AG, but being a person in small business I would assume if AG issued refunds without any questions every time a person had a little problem with their floors, AG would be out of business really darn quick. Granted this seems to be a "big" problem and a chunk of change was spent, you can empathize with AG in the fact that he is going to the ends of the earth to try to figure out whose fault it is and what went wrong.

From where I'm sitting if I was Haugy yea I'd be really damn pissed but I'd also be pleased with the attention this is getting and the efforts to find what caused the problem. Those that are calling for a flat out refund of all Haugys money I think are missing the point a bit.

I think AG should still get a "B" for the effort. He could have tucked and ran.

.02

 

[graffix000]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I think AG should still get a "B" for the effort. He could have tucked and ran.

.02

If AG would have tucked and run, they would have burned many bridges with potential customers on this site.

The OP spent a hefty sum for a epoxy floor, and has little to show for it. I hope things get taken care of for him.

I myself would be very pissed.

 

[Auzivision]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I sure hope they figure this one out.

I know I'll be doing my garage sometime in the future and discussions like this can have a heavy influence on which way I decide to go.

I'm guessing I'm not the only one that feels this way.

 

[thegarageguy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

First let me start off by stating that I have never used Wolverine and don't intend to in any near future. Most who have been on this Forum know that Wolfie, Alpha and I have had our share of spats. With that said, I'd rather talk from my 9 years of installation experience. I have also been contracted to manage, consult and even inspect floors to ensure specs where followed.

To me, it's very curious to see spot areas reacting or curdling like sour milk. If all of the poly was bad, the whole floor would of reacted the same way. Instead, there are spot areas, which is usually consistent with bad mixing from batch to batch. its the same pattern as the failure.

2 things could have occured here. 1st, Either the resin and hardner where improperly mixed or before that, the original 5 gallon pails where not pre mixed. When stored, the material settles and if not pre mixed will cause major inconsistencies and failure. 2nd, Polyurethanes do not level out. They are applied paper thin. When applying it to thick, it will turn brittle, curl and fail. Also, Haugy mentioned, "leveling it out" or trying to get the roller or brush marks out...we've seen cases where people would pour or spray thinner over curing epoxy, thinking it would help level it out or remove roller marks. I can't say for sure that this was it because none of us where there but it sure as hell looks like it. Hell, I've seen cases where people would roll on hardener over resin thinking it would cure it, so this senario isn't far fetched.

IMO, this has the look of installation error. If the epoxy wasn't premixed or mixed well with the hardner, some areas will stay gooey and when the poly is applied over uncured epoxy, it will react. Cured or hardened epoxy cannot get pulled off chemically unless it's a strong thinner or an epoxy remover. If a topical thinner was used in areas of Haugy's apparent concerns, then again this would be the end result.

As for Wolfie or Alpha selling a bad batch....well, again, if it was bad, the whole floor would of reacted the same way. Also, If it was a bad batch, they would have more people jumping down there throats. I'm not sure if we would here from them here but your experience would be everyone elses with the same batch. How would we know if this was the case? I guess we'd have to rely on their honesty or hear from someone else with the same experience. Like the case that happened with Epoxy-Coat yellowing dilema.

In conclusion, if Haugy mixed properly (the A+B part) then we can only assume, since there wasnt any reference otherwise that he, Haugy, never premixed the original pails, causing the resins to be inconsistant and be mixed inconsistently or in his obvious and admitted frustration of the poly not "leveling out", he used something topical, thinking it would help "level it out. Since it's a slow cure and slow reaction, the results wouldn't be immediate but the next day.

Either way, it seems to me like installation error. Sorry Haugy, I just can't see it your way.

 

[mpire]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

This is why you should hire someone to install the floor and not pay them till you are happy with it.

 

[haugy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

F
In conclusion, if Haugy mixed properly (the A+B part) then we can only assume, since there wasnt any reference otherwise that he, Haugy, never premixed the original pails, causing the resins to be inconsistant and be mixed inconsistently or in his obvious and admitted frustration of the poly not "leveling out", he used something topical, thinking it would help "level it out. Since it's a slow cure and slow reaction, the results wouldn't be immediate but the next day.

No on both counts. I did mix beforehand. That just didn't seem real important in my original post. Frustration had gotten to me, so I'm just happy I got it that detailed. No thinners or anything added to the floor. I understand you're just trying to add information, but realistically with the size of that original post do you think I will get every detail in there?

I understand your more experienced, then let me ask you a question. How would you explain a solid floor that looked immaculate when dry, and then turned to the pictures afterwards of adding the clear coat? You can see in the pictures where the failures happened. There is no way I could walk over that much floor without noticing it was still wet. I went all over it with a scraper for the flakes, and then blowing it out.

When I talked to Fred, he said the same things. "It was mixed wrong."

And off the bat I said, fine, alright. Now what can I do to fix it? But as I was scraping off the mess, I had a lot of time to think. And that's it when it occurred to me that the floor was perfect beforehand. There was no sign of failure, no soft spots, no tacky sections. And trust me I was down on my hands and knees looking. Really I was admiring it at the time.

I still can't figure out what happened. I followed the exact same process for the mixing that I did with the rest of the floor. And one would assume, if I had failed at mixing a section, I would have done it all the time. I had a timer for 4 mintues. I can set speeds on my drill and go. I went round and round in the bucket mixing.

I see your point of view, but the two options of me not pre-mixing, or me cutting it with thinner are inaccurate.

 

[Dan_inthewind]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I did my floor and wow,was I amazed at how good it looked, Turned out to be a nice hard surface, smooth as a babies ****. Was really proud of myself,,,well till two days later. Out of no where it started to bubble up just like in the OP's pictures. It was not all over but in large erratic areas. I feel it was due to moisture even with my thinking there was no moisture problem. I scrapped my floor and in some areas I still have paint to this day, a year after. BUT I did a DIY project. I prepared to no end but in the end, I feel as DIY I enjoyed the project and will learn from my lesson or my mistake. I think DIY also means in the end you take responsibility for the Y in the project. If you want to take a chance on a large investment then take the chance. If you want a warranty then pay the pro's.

Dan

 

[thegarageguy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Moisture problems don't show there face the next day, unless its incredibly drastic and usually start seeing lumps that eventually turn to blisters that you can pop like a zit. so I'd have to rule that one out. Again, none of us where there and we have to take your word and I don't want to judge you. I'm going from your pics and they are consistent with improper application. Again, if the product was bad, it would not pick and choose where to react or curdle as it did, the whole floor would of been wrinkled. If I was brought in and without hearing anyone's side, I would automatically conclude the same way.

Now, if your material was old, then you should check the pails for the manufactured date. 12 months is the max for most unopened products. If it is past due, well again, your fault for not checking before installing. You did mention that the product was hard to mix. It could be that the material was old and or left out in the sun and damaged. Unfortunately, being this your first experience with the product it would be hard to tell if its bad. We've had material crust up or curdle in the pails because of exposure and we throw it out. Now lets say this was the case, and somehow your material showed signs of inconsistency, well again, your fault for using it. You did say it was hard to mix which is weird for a poly which is normally very viscous. You should of called Fred to make sure that was normal for his product. Unfortunately, these are the risks of DIY, your unfamiliarity with the products characteristics where your downfall.

Your best bet is to sand with 36 - 60 grit, solvent wipe and do a full broadcast to help hide the defects.

Whatever happens, I wish you luck

 

[z28toz06]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I went with the Rustoleum product, partly due to the fact that It was inexpensive, but also because I wanted to do Racedeck eventually. it was a couple hundred bucks, and was worth it.

If I had 3 or so bucks a square foot budget, I think I would have put a sealer down and went straight to the Racedeck.

Sorry for your heartbreak Haugy.

 

[haugy]

Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I did my floor and wow,was I amazed at how good it looked, Turned out to be a nice hard surface, smooth as a babies ****. Was really proud of myself,,,well till two days later. Out of no where it started to bubble up just like in the OP's pictures. It was not all over but in large erratic areas. I feel it was due to moisture even with my thinking there was no moisture problem. I scrapped my floor and in some areas I still have paint to this day, a year after. BUT I did a DIY project. I prepared to no end but in the end, I feel as DIY I enjoyed the project and will learn from my lesson or my mistake. I think DIY also means in the end you take responsibility for the Y in the project. If you want to take a chance on a large investment then take the chance. If you want a warranty then pay the pro's.

Dan

This right here is why I think people have misunderstood me. Not once have I asked for a refund. Not once have I asked for anything in return. From the first post, and day one I have known this was a DIY project, and I'm fine with that. This thread is meant to inform people. Others have been calling for refunds. Not me. I knew I was going to have to eat it on this project. Not trying to jump on ya Dan, but I don't want the wrong impression getting across.

Now, if your material was old, then you should check the pails for the manufactured date. 12 months is the max for most unopened products. If it is past due, well again, your fault for not checking before installing. You did mention that the product was hard to mix. It could be that the material was old and or left out in the sun and damaged. Unfortunately, being this your first experience with the product it would be hard to tell if its bad. We've had material crust up or curdle in the pails because of exposure and we throw it out. Now lets say this was the case, and somehow your material showed signs of inconsistency, well again, your fault for using it. You did say it was hard to mix which is weird for a poly which is normally very viscous. You should of called Fred to make sure that was normal for his product. Unfortunately, these are the risks of DIY, your unfamiliarity with the products characteristics where your downfall.

Well if that's the case, then hopefully others will garner from this. I did not check date stamps on the buckets. I had no idea I needed to. Your right, for all I know they could have been ancient. I do know that I received the buckets on a Wednesday, and by Friday I was applying. I kept them indoors, not in the garage. I don't have the buckets, so I will never know. But I assumed (oops) that they poured the product into the buckets at the time of order. I didn't know they packaged them, and then let them sit. I had never read about having to check the dates in all my research. So if that's the case, well then hopefully others will know to do that in the future.