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My Wolverine Floor

bslimousinranch

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I think that Haugy has kindof got the raw end of the stick on this post. He did not post this for everyone to question his ability to follow directions, He posted this so everyone would take into consideration the risks of an Epoxy job. I have yet to hear Haugy ask for a dime on this floor job. Yet if anyone should be scrambling it should be Fred, everyone is watching and waiting to see how this turns out. On a side note: you do not have a pro do a DIY job. If Haugy did not have the confidence and where with all, he would have never taken on an epoxy job to start with. Most of you know what i'm talking about, you built your garage or atleast most of it, and it not like you all own your own construction company!
 
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innate123

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

As far as forums go, I think both Fred and the OP have handled themselves well in this. Haugy seems to be a stand up guy that is sharing his experience.

This thread scared me as I did a DIY job not knowing a floor could fail "down the road." I do not think the industrial painter that sold me the supplies would reimburse me for any failure unless it was 100% clearly a product issue.

Unfortunately in this case, there is no clear cut failure reason as you have experienced guys stating so.

If I were a product supplier, I'd really make sure that the customer signs off on a DIY project when they buy the product. Otherwise I think there would be too large a liability for selling the products. I don't think I as a businessman would fly to the job and set that prescedence (sp?).

I too have never seen Haugy ask/beg/demand any type of refund. I hope it can be resolved satisfactorily by both sides - although the time spent on the project can never be brought back.

Tim
 

LegacyIndustrial

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Responding to the last post,

99% of problems with epoxy flooring occur right away.
We have many square miles of product performing everyday in the commercial marketplace with little issues. I am sure Fred and Christine have a similar log of satisfied customers.

If you haven't had any issues to date, it is unlikely you will.

Responding to the post before that:
We see newbies purchase epoxy all the time. Some are fine and some screw up royally.
Don't under estimate the power of ignorance.
 
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belvedere

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

If it is past due, well again, your fault for not checking before installing.
well again, your fault for using it... You should of called Fred to make sure that was normal for his product.

Wow...the picture of customer service.

Yes, I am a small business owner. I can't imagine talking this way to a customer. I understand that he is not your customer in this case, but you seem to suggest that this is how you'd deal with him if he were your customer.
 

Dan_inthewind

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Haugy > don't feel like your jumping on me at all. Just saying how I feel about DIY's.

My garage is small enough that any lesson learned doesnt really cost me too badly.

Next for me is a go at porcelin tiles :)

Dan
 

thegarageguy

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

you seem to suggest that this is how you'd deal with him if he were your customer.

Right, good one. A little history my friend, I learned this business almost 9 years ago in Sunny Southern Cali. I was taught to acid wash and use bondo on cracks. Needless to say all my first jobs failed in NY and NJ. I refinished them all on my dime with no questions asked. In the years past and even just recently, I've had customers damage there floors when dragging there furniture back in or when a Doctor's office's Glade Plug in exploded and stained the floor. I fixed them on my own time and at no cost, even though I and they knew I was not at fault. My customers are very happy and I usually go above and beyond to ensure client satisfaction.

It's unfortunate what happened with Haugy. It seems he dotted his i's and crossed his t's but even the well seasoned pro, doing this day in and day out with the same material goofs or gets caught fighting the environments. You see these systems are not only temperamental but we are applicating in uncontrolled environments that can wreak havoc during installation and cause problems in performance after.

I wish Haugy luck and hope he and Wolverine can work something out that they can both live with.
 

popcorn-guy

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

As I had been considering covering my new shop's floor with an epoxy product I'm glad that I came to this Board. It has been an eye opener, especially being informed that the material is tempermental and there are pros who have difficulties as well. So I wonder how is a DYI'er assured of having any success with an epoxy product. Sounds as if the percentage of success is pretty low.

I'll seal the concrete and consider perhaps one of the other styles of flooring mentioned in this thread. Having a "showcase" shop is not the most important item, imho, but having a well laid out shop that functions well and allows one to work efficiently, comfortable, and safely being most important. I was considering the epoxy as I believed it would assist in keeping a clean and neat shop, and sealing the concrete will do that as well. Yes I would like to have a spiffy looking floor, but not at the expense and risk involved with epoxy that I've read about in this thread. Again it's been an eye opener.
 

GeorgiaHybrid

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

popcorn,

There are hundreds of people that do not have a problem with DIY epoxy for every one that has issues like those encountered in this thread. Are there risks involved? Yes, but they are minimal enough that I would not hesitate to use a good epoxy as a floor covering IF it fits you needs.
 

slowtwitch

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Wow...the picture of customer service.

Yes, I am a small business owner. I can't imagine talking this way to a customer. I understand that he is not your customer in this case, but you seem to suggest that this is how you'd deal with him if he were your customer.

I agree 100% As a business owner myself, these this type of attitude really *****. Why should a customer worry about expiration dates and such. It is the business owners responsibility to provide a top notch product, not the customers. All this talk of Do it selfers should take responsibility, if that is the case, then these so called businesses should not advertise to the diy selfer or advertise that it is so easy to install a caveman can do it. Thank goodness for this forum, my do not call column is growing by the day.
 
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PaulR

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

This thread hasn't phased me one bit.


I'm still going to go with a DIY Polyaspartic Polyurea kit. :eyecrazy::eyecrazy::eyecrazy::eyecrazy:
 

BL50

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

This thread hasn't phased me one bit.


I'm still going to go with a DIY Polyaspartic Polyurea kit. :eyecrazy::eyecrazy::eyecrazy::eyecrazy:

Really? What brand? Let us know how it goes ... with pictures! :thumbup:
 

jhelrey

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

After reading all of these.... this is my opinion.

Haugy should strip the entire floor. Have his buddy out and get it back to bare concrete.

The sales/warranty person that is dealing with the floor should have someone from his company come out and put a new floor in themselves.

Little out of pocket for the company and the customer would be happy.

I am going to blame the product through from what I have seen. If it was mixed wrong, etc. All areas would be bad, not just a few here and there.
 

AlphaGarage

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

As I mentioned earlier Wolverine tracks the batch numbers of the orders, and there's no issues with the shelf life of any of the products. They go through inventory pretty quickly, so that's never a concern. Just for the record the shelf life once you receive it is at least one year if the product remains unopened. We do not expect our clients to check expiration dates and would not send out anything has a shelf life of less than 12 months.

So far I've spoken with a couple of independent experts about a 100% solids epoxy being hard but then getting soft, they've told me:
-It's possible if the ratio of part A to part B is off, in this case if it was 1:1 instead of 2:1 (resin to hardener).
-Solvent is applied to the surface of the curing epoxy.
-The concrete is wet or not 28 days cured. (not an issue here, BondTite can go on damp concrete).
Besides those situation I've been told it's simply impossible for the epoxy to go from hard to soft.

I've also contacted any my 2 DIY clients who had material from the same batch - still waiting to hear from one of them, the other's floor turned out "great" - he says even his wife loves it.

Waiting for Wolverine to review a few more picture we received.
 

rugerlady

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I am going to blame the product through from what I have seen. If it was mixed wrong, etc. All areas would be bad, not just a few here and there.

This is the problem with people that do not know about the products and what happens.
I am not trying to pick on you, but....Most people "in the business" know that if just a few spots are not good (cured) it is usually a mixing issue and the hardener was not properly mixed into the Part A. If it was the entire floor, it could either be a ratio error or a bad batch, it would have to be investigated further.
I hope this clarifies some misconceptions that some DIY'ers may have.
 
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haugy

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

So far I've spoken with a couple of independent experts about a 100% solids epoxy being hard but then getting soft, they've told me:
-It's possible if the ratio of part A to part B is off, in this case if it was 1:1 instead of 2:1 (resin to hardener).
-Solvent is applied to the surface of the curing epoxy.
-The concrete is wet or not 28 days cured. (not an issue here, BondTite can go on damp concrete).
Besides those situation I've been told it's simply impossible for the epoxy to go from hard to soft.

Thanks Fred. As for the ratio I'm pretty sure I mixed it right as kept rechecking, and my helper is just as ****. But I'm human.

As for the solvent, that I can guarantee never happened. The only thing we did out of the normal process was use Denatured alchohol (per instruction) after sanding the air-bubbles in the bond tite, but it was hours before we applied the epoxy.

And the concrete was 2 months old and had been covered the whole time.

Something I started to think about that wasn't covered was Temp and humidity. Most people this year know the insane heat that was had. When we applied it was 89 degrees out (at night) with a pretty good humidity level. I know Fred and I had talked about it, and thought we would be okay, but with these heat levels being out of the ordinary, I'm wondering if they affected it.
 
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AlphaGarage

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I've looked into the weather during the 2 days, the rel humidity was a bit high at times (up to 94% on 7/23), and did top our recommended max (80%), but the temps were with in the guidelines. Still checking, but it looks like the weather conditions aren't an issue.

One of the two DIY clients with product from the same batch number has allowed us to share pictures from his project (playing phone tag with #2); he added "...I think it is a great product. Not a member of the garage journal; just got your info from there."

p1010010f.jpg


p1010009ri.jpg


p1010008g.jpg


p1010011jp.jpg
 

Kingham

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

one thing can be agreed on is.. this is a nightmare! and it's for both parties.

Look everyone.. this type of thing does happen with all different products regardless of manufacture and installers professional or DIYer. I've had my share and I've been called upon to fix other contractors/homeowners problems.

I'm currently going through two floor application issues myself.. A customer supplied (U-Coat it) product and another Arizona polymer issue. both I would have to say installation was the issue and more attention was needed to do the job correctly. something that I personally as a business owner have to make right by my clients.. no matter the cost or loss of income.


It's real easy to play the blame game here but..we really need to take a look at this project and break down the issues to find the problem and look for the solution.


IMO there are only 5 reasons that this didn't work.
1. concrete gas/chemical/hydrostatic issues.
2. improper floor prep
3. bad batch of product. bad catalysis or base.
3. improper mixing product
4. improper application

1.) The "white" bubbles of the off gassing makes me think that there might be a possible efflorescence issue with the concrete not an epoxy off gas from bad application. plus.. installing from 65 degrees and warming is actually in my experience ideal to get a good coat down and pot life that doesn't go off to quick.. then the slowly warming air temps will help the chemical reaction cure the product and be ready for the next step

wondering if there was a chemical reaction with the salts leaching out of the concrete when the base coating was applied.

Though not typical, (except for high end commerciale installs as needed per contract), I'm thinking a core sample needs to be taken of the slab and have a petrographic examination done to determine the condition of the concrete.

this analysis will discover if is any issues with this install is due to poor concrete chemistry.


other questions:
a. How old was the concrete from the day of 1st coat?
b. did you do a vapor barrier test for hydrostatic pressure?
c. anything else you noticed about the concrete when it was poured.. temps, did they cover concrete, how did they finish or did they add more water,agents to concrete? did they runs short of concrete or was there a laps between trucks? etc. etc.

Prep questions:
a. as your grinded the floor with edco.. did you inspect for any other issues after wards?
b. You rinsed with water and let dry.. what is your water hardness level and did you just leave to air dry or did you squeegee and put a fan on it?
c. I read that you prepped a few weeks before laying down product.. did you blow out and/or do a final rinse to get all particulates off the floor before applying the base coat or did you just start laying down the epoxy?


Next..
from the pictures, the wrinkling of the base coat and bubbling of the top coat make me think the base (though hard on top) epoxy was not thoroughly cured. it seems to be a very typical reaction when placing a fast curing coat over a slower not completely dried base.

this is where there is a lot of gray area and very hard to prove what really happen.

taking the concrete out of the equation.. we can take a look at it being 1 or more of the 3 things, product, mixing or installation.

let's talk product.. the old batch issue was rebutted by the supplier. of course I'm sure the OP didn't keep all the containers the product came in.
that would help solve some of the problem as we could see the mgf date and make sure the product was out of shelf life. or do a chemical analysis of the product to make sure it was a good batch.. as much as suppliers will swear on the bible that they never sent out bad product.. it's happened and I've had issues with bad shipment of product where the epoxy never catalyzed leaving a gooy mess. after numerous calls by other installers, the supplier had to recall the batch as it was found something was wrong.

let talk mixing/installing.. 1200 square ft.. that's a pretty big floor for a DIYer..

so did you mix all the product at one time and let sweat in or did you do the floor in batches? did you mix for the proper time and mix in separate container?

if mixed in batches.. are those bad areas possibly in different batched application areas? how did you stage and time your mixing?

application:
how many people on the crew?
I noticed that there were no cut in by the bottom plates. wondering why?
how was the product applied? poured lines, in puddles, paint pan?
how was it applied? squeegeed, rolled or brushed.
How long did it take to apply each coat.
what was the temps, humidity?
what was the times between coats.


more questions later.. gotta work..
 
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haugy

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Holy ****. I'm too beat for that one. I'll answer those tomorrow.
 

mpire

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I feel bad for the OP.

I expected issues with the install. I ended up paying around a dollar a square foot for the finished floor done by a pro. He had issues too, he ended up gel coating and sanding again to make it a solid base, then he coated it again with epoxy, TWICE.

The difference is that the pro will make you happy, or you can sue him, or not pay him. In the end, I couldn't be happier with my 10 layer super floor.

A garage is much too important to chance not being able to use it!
 
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haugy

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Okay, here go. I just couldn't not answer. :bounce:

My answers are in red. I figured this might help so I don't have to type a novel.

Though not typical, (except for high end commerciale installs as needed per contract), I'm thinking a core sample needs to be taken of the slab and have a petrographic examination done to determine the condition of the concrete.
this analysis will discover if is any issues with this install is due to poor concrete chemistry.

That will NOT happen. I'm already to the point of stripping it, and getting my bud to polish it down. There's no point in breaking out core samples.

other questions:
a. How old was the concrete from the day of 1st coat? 109 days from when I paid the concrete guy to placed the order to AG

b. did you do a vapor barrier test for hydrostatic pressure? NO, the concrete was beyond dry, and the shop was at a relatively lower humidity than outside air so I assumed it was dry. No coloration or signs of moisture.

c. anything else you noticed about the concrete when it was poured.. temps, did they cover concrete, how did they finish or did they add more water,agents to concrete? did they runs short of concrete or was there a laps between trucks? etc. etc.
One continuous pour, vapor barrier underneath, they poured so late that they wanted to start the power screeder at 1 am. Since they had destroyed mine and my neighbors yard with a bobcat, I wasn't about to make my neighbors more mad. They had to hand smooth it, which sucked of course. No water was added or agents. I was present throughout the pour.

Prep questions:
a. as your grinded the floor with edco.. did you inspect for any other issues after wards? such as? I saw no cracks or coloration that would suggest a problem. It was a continous surface with a good texture, not rough, but not smooth

b. You rinsed with water and let dry.. what is your water hardness level and did you just leave to air dry or did you squeegee and put a fan on it?
As for the level, I have no clue. But we don't have hard water here. It was 94 degrees. By the time I had finished, one side was already drying. The places where water slightly collected a fan was used. And it was a high pressure rinse.

c. I read that you prepped a few weeks before laying down product.. did you blow out and/or do a final rinse to get all particulates off the floor before applying the base coat or did you just start laying down the epoxy?
Nope. I did a quick final rinse about a week before. But I blasted it with my backpack leaf blower. The day of. Nothing had been inside except me with barefeet since water washing.

let talk mixing/installing.. 1200 square ft.. that's a pretty big floor for a DIYer..
so did you mix all the product at one time and let sweat in or did you do the floor in batches? did you mix for the proper time and mix in separate container?
No I did it in sections. As you can see I left the expansion cuts in. This gave me a perfect 100 sq/ft measurement. I measured each batch in fresh buckets. I mixed for a minimum of 4 minutes (stopwatch) with a variable speed drill.

if mixed in batches.. are those bad areas possibly in different batched application areas? how did you stage and time your mixing?

Yes different batches. Time my mixing? As stated before, or I misunderstood your question on this one

application:
how many people on the crew? 2

I noticed that there were no cut in by the bottom plates. wondering why?
Are you referring to the edging/trim? If so, there will be framing and drywall going in, and the edco grinder couldn't get in there real good. So when the walls are done they will be well past where I stopped rolling.

how was the product applied? poured lines, in puddles, paint pan?
how was it applied? squeegeed, rolled or brushed.
I poured it out in ribbons. I'd pour a small line, step back and pour another, and so on. I used the squeegee that Wolverine provides with the ridges to spread it. Then I used an 18" 3/8 nap roller (lint free) to roll it out.

How long did it take to apply each coat. Each total coat or section? Hell to be honest I don't even remember. I started and didn't stop till I finished.

what was the temps, humidity? mid 90's, humidity in the 75-80 range I think

what was the times between coats.as answered above, don't know
 

roger55

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Haugy,

On your initial application, can you explain exactly how you applied the EnduraShield?

Roger
 

gabeancounter

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Haugy,
Glad to see you are keeping positive while other vendors and expert DIY's grill you. Sounds like you applied everything correctly.

Glad to hear you are removing the epoxy. Can't wait to see the concrete polished. Sorry you lost that much money. Just knock it out and get it done so you can move on.:thumbup:
 
OP
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haugy

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Just curious, has there been any resolution to this yet? Has there been any response back from the manufacturer?

Keith

Nope. And I don't expect one. As it was left last time I talked to Fred was:

"You mixed it wrong".

Maybe, maybe not, who really knows at this point. I followed the directions to the T, but I am a novice. But I know that's the position he's taken. Regardless of the "investigation".

All I know is this floor is not as durable as I was told.
 

VC-Racing

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

This thread is a gentle reminder of why I chose to use a local supplier.
I used a Dupont Corlar 2.1 Epoxy that was a 2 gal kit( pour 1 gal of activator to 1 gal of coating) and so far its done exactly what their commercial floor rep told me. The week before I went to order my coating, he asked if he could come by and see what I going to do. I told him if he wanted to drive the 60miles to look that was fine with me. 2 days before I started my project ,he called and asked if it was convenient to come by, I told him yes. He stopped in, looked and gave me a few tips and his cell #. He told me if I had any trouble to call, which I never needed to. He followed up with me that following Monday and asked if I would take pics and send them to him, that was last year and so far , I'm very satisfied .
 

strelnik

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Man, what a mess! Like ripped said above it seems like a problem with the clear top coat.
I am in the middle of using epoxy-coat on my 36x30 pole barn floor and it is going very well other than my own mistakes. christine at epoxy-coat has been very nice and easy to reach for assistance. I even called her on sunday for advice. I almost went with wolverine but the extra cost was my decision maker. Glad I went with epoxy-coat. I will only have about $1000 in my floor when I get done. I am not clear coating my floor, clear coat would have added another $400 or $500 probably. I have a thread with a few pics on here and will be adding more when I get done later this weekend.

Can you provide more info on epoxy-coat?
At a minimum, I'll be coating a 600 sq ft area where I do my service work, but I might end up doing the whole 2100 square feet, perhaps 500 sq ft at a time. Probably not til spring or summer.

This thread has been very valuable to me, regarding the coating types and the season for application. Looks like I'll have to wait until next year to do anything, including buy the product.

I understand Rust-O-Leum is getting into this market, has anyone tried their product?
 

roger55

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I wouldn't write off Wolverine because of this thread. I used the product and I thought it was absolutely great. I also used the optional EnduraShield as my top coat. It's coming up 2 years now since I put it down and it is holding up terrific. I would absolutely use it again. I found Fred to be of great help both before and after the sale. Other products I have used in the past are: U-Coat-It, Rustoleum (the water based version), Quikrete, Griot's Garage, and Epoxy Coat. Out of those, the only one wouldn't consider using again would be U-Coat-It.

Don't get me wrong, I feel real bad for haugy. Something obviously went wrong somewhere what ever it was. And, what a mess you have on your hands if something like that goes way wrong. But, there are many success stories with Wolverine. Actually, even counting a couple of very minor problems people had, every report I've seen has been positive except this one.

I would like haugy to answer the last question that I posted. I have studied his pictures very closely and the difference between what my EnduraShield looked like (right after application) and the way his looked is totally different. We had to have done it differently from each other. I measured out the amount I needed to give me a 4 mil coat for the area I was coating, poured it in an 18" roller pan, and rolled it on like paint with a new 18" roller. It went on very, very smooth.
 
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OP
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haugy

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Haugy,

On your initial application, can you explain exactly how you applied the EnduraShield?

Roger

Yeah, I made two batches. Made one, rolled it out, made another, etc. I poured it into a big paint roller pan. Apparently 18 inch roller pans aren't common down here as it took forever to find one. I then went section by section rolling it out. I would roll one direction, and then immediately cross roll it. Think of cris-cross. Then I would move to the next section.

II would like haugy to answer the last question that I posted. I have studied his pictures very closely and the difference between what my EnduraShield looked like (right after application) and the way his looked is totally different. We had to have done it differently from each other. I measured out the amount I needed to give me a 4 mil coat for the area I was coating, poured it in an 18" roller pan, and rolled it on like paint with a new 18" roller. It went on very, very smooth.

Sorry Roger, I must have scrolled right over the question. It did go on very smooth for me as well, but from start to finish, it would leave roller marks. Even when I cross rolled it. I thought I might have rolled it too thin, but at the end of the project I only had a little left, which according to Fred was how it would normally be.
 

rockchucker

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Wow! Just read through the whole thread.

Sorry for your experience with this product. You have spent more than enough time dealing with the Supplier to deal with this. Answering every question asked. You have asked for nothing. Being a high paying Customer dealing with this in such a professional manner I would really hope that this gets resolved. You should not have to ask for anything. This should be taken care of by the supplier in my opinion.

Wow...the picture of customer service.

Yes, I am a small business owner. I can't imagine talking this way to a customer. I understand that he is not your customer in this case, but you seem to suggest that this is how you'd deal with him if he were your customer.

100% Agreed.

I would never talk to any Customer of mine in this way.
 

AlphaGarage

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

Wow! Just read through the whole thread.

Sorry for your experience with this product. You have spent more than enough time dealing with the Supplier to deal with this. Answering every question asked. You have asked for nothing. Being a high paying Customer dealing with this in such a professional manner I would really hope that this gets resolved. You should not have to ask for anything. This should be taken care of by the supplier in my opinion.



100% Agreed.

I would never talk to any Customer of mine in this way.

Just to be clear - the "I would never talk to any Customer of mine in this way." does not refer to anything AlphaGarage or Wolverine posted or said, it's regarding another supplier who voiced their opinion.

We're still on this - and intend to resolve it soon.

Clearly we appreciate our past clients who have posted their experiences, and would like to point out that we have about 300 such clients from this forum alone, this is the first complaint of this nature. Considering the application guidelines of any two component coating , that stat in itself is strong testimony to the quality of our products and customer service.

We strive - hard - to give all our clients a superior experience, and with over 99% of the DIY customers being happy those efforts pay off. But we also understand that unfortunately not everyone is going to be satisfied every time. Sometimes I drop the ball, sometimes there's just a misunderstanding, sometimes some one else drops the ball. I'll reiterate - if Wolverine or Alpha Garage makes a mistake - we're honest and admit our errors - and then we take care of them!
 

Jaguar Fan

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

In conclusion, if Haugy mixed properly (the A+B part) then we can only assume, since there wasnt any reference otherwise that he, Haugy, never premixed the original pails ...

thegarageguy,

Just a quick real world question... Do pro installers typically mix each of the A, B, and then A+B with a different mixing paddle (that is, 3 separate mixing paddles?)? Do you reuse mixing paddles on drills or do you dispose of them after each application?

I'm just trying to get an idea for how sensitive the process is.

Thanks for the education.
 

AlphaGarage

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

If you have a container of A, and a container of B, and you're going to mix them together immediately go ahead and premix A and premix B with the same mixer then combine and mix together. But if there's going to be a time lapse between combining several cans of A and several cans of B then it's best to first premix all the A's, clean the mixer (denatured alcohol, MEK) then premix all the B's. You don't want and residue on the paddle to start a reaction prematurely.

Some of these chemicals are pretty sensitive and it doesn't take much to get a reaction started. I always have a gallon can with denatured alcohol just for cleaning stuff anyway, so cleaning a mix head only takes a few seconds, why take chances?

One thing I don't do is clean the mixer after the last mix of a particular layer if I have the time for it to cure, I like how the different colors build up, and it smooths out the edges so it doesn't cut into the pails, but that's just me.
 
OP
H

haugy

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

thegarageguy,

Just a quick real world question... Do pro installers typically mix each of the A, B, and then A+B with a different mixing paddle (that is, 3 separate mixing paddles?)? Do you reuse mixing paddles on drills or do you dispose of them after each application?

I'm just trying to get an idea for how sensitive the process is.

Thanks for the education.

You can use the same paddle, but you have to thoroughly, and I mean thoroughly clean the paddle off with MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) between each.

If any of A gets into B, the hardening process starts, and you're in trouble if you aren't ready.

In my case I bought two paddles. One for mixing individuals, and one for the mixing of the two.



EDIT: Too slow. :lol_hitti
 

Wanna Ride

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

When I first read your op, my ears kinda' perked when I read about the leaf blower, then I jsut read it again later in the thread. So I gotta ask...

I know this might be a crazy question, but I'm just curious... Do you think there was any possibility that the backpack leaf blower possibly contaminated the floor with exhaust? It just seems so odd that the not the entire floow was affected but certain, random areas were.

Maybe I'm just grabbing at straws.
 

AlphaGarage

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

That might be the possible culprit. Grease, lubricants, and especially silicon based products can cause trouble. We had one case where a silicon lubricant was used in the HVAC ducting, which was turned on during the cure - not good results.
 

Andy4639

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I'm not a expert but how would the exhaust peel the top coat up and not hurt the base coats? I can't see it! That is straw grabbing at it's best right there!
I've been thinking about this for awhile and have been saving money to buy this product now since last winter. I have sent Fred a couple of e-mails about this product and have been reading ever since about it. He sent me what I needed to know.
I'm sorry to say it's got me thinking other wise now! I know one customer doesn't break a company like this. Taking this long to make a decision on it has me wondering! I maybe the next one to run into a problem.
I must agree if I'm going to buy a product from a company to do myself, it's not my job to inspect the dates, that's there job! As with any product if it's out of date it's the company's fault totally not the customer's!
Also want to say that haugy should be refunded for his cost, for being a standup guy. He never asked for one but was giving his opionion of his experience with the product. Thank you! I can learn form this!
 
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AlphaGarage

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I'm not a expert but how would the exhaust peel the top coat up and not hurt the base coats? I can't see it! That is straw grabbing at it's best right there!
You are correct - it probably isn't the culprit here. The odd happening here is that a coat of 100% solid epoxy that was cured is reported to later return to a soft liquid state. I've spoken with numerous pros and none of them has heard of that ever happening - not ever. We looked at the jobs using materials from the same batches (this job had 15 gallons from around 1,500 gallons total)- and can't find any single other project with issues.

These materials are thoroughly mixed for hours and hours, it's not easy to explain how just 10 or so gallons from that huge batch would have problems. And frankly I'm not willing to concede it's a problem with the chemicals at this point.
I've been thinking about this for awhile and have been saving money to buy this product now since last winter. I have sent Fred a couple of e-mails about this product and have been reading ever since about it. He sent me what I needed to know.
I'm sorry to say it's got me thinking other wise now! I know one customer doesn't break a company like this. Taking this long to make a decision on it has me wondering! I maybe the next one to run into a problem.
We've taken to time to looks at all aspects of this. That simply is an involved process.

I doubt there's a company that has a record of 100% consumer satisfaction with a DIY product - we try but that's just tough to do.

We work with clients when they run into problems - even though the vast majority of times it's operator error. Even then we jump in and help. But we simply can't afford to hand out 100% replacement product in all cases if the problem is not our fault. No company does that. To do so we would need to increase prices to everyone else - or shut the doors.

We work very hard to please and supporty our clients, and our track record here shows that we're doing a pretty good job of it.
 
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Andy4639

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Re: My Wolverine Epoxy floor Nightmare

I don't think any company will just pay a customer because of what he say's about a product and i didn't mean it that way at all. He has never asked for a refund. Me as a customer thinking about buying a product like this it's has me wondering! This is a lot of money to me, I'm just a poor SC guy who is wanting my garage floor covered and as stated I'm saving up and almost there. I thought I had a product that I was going with but now I don't know!:headscrat
 
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