Name This Bolt

[D45]

I am restoring an older Dake 6 ton arbor press

There is a 4 bolt front cover, that holds the RAM in place. In the center of this cover is a threaded hole

Well some say that the center hole uses a brass bolt, to put pressure up against the ram. Brass is soft right and shouldn't mark or score the ram

Well after further inspection, it looks like the center bolt is a ball end thrust pressure bolt.......atleast that's what I think it's called

 

[apollo11]

 

[D45]

So its basically just a normal bolt, but the end of the thread is drilled out for a single ball bearing?

I do not think there is a spring inside the bolt, I cant get it to move

 

[cvairwerks]

Doesn't look like any of the ram covers in their books. Someone may have broken or lost the original cover and just make a plate up instead. There should be a couple of shims behind the cover. If not, suspect the cover being a home made piece.

 

[APEowner]

If it's spring loaded then it's a ball nose spring plunger. If it's a brass tip then it's a dog point.

 

[MarkG]

I'd name the bolt 'Fred'. It just sounds like a good old-fashioned bolty name.

 

[D45]

Doesn't look like any of the ram covers in their books. Someone may have broken or lost the original cover and just make a plate up instead. There should be a couple of shims behind the cover. If not, suspect the cover being a home made piece.

I have two shims that fell out when I pulled the front cover off

I really don't think the shims are needed..........

This center bolt would be used for what, to put slight pressure on the RAM to keep it from falling?

 

[Doug Arthurs]

Vlier makes them they are ball plungers as mentioned above

 

[D45]

Thanks, now I wonder what "pressure rating" I would need:

Light Pressure:
End Pressure (Start): 2.5 Lbs.
End Pressure (Full): 5.0 Lbs.

Medium Pressure:
End Pressure (Start): 5.0 Lbs.
End Pressure (Full): 10.0 Lbs.

Heavy Pressure:
End Pressure (Start): 6.0 Lbs.
End Pressure (Full): 21.0 Lbs.

 

[D45]

Expensive little suckers..........most come in a pack of 5 or 10

I did find this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Machinist-...471521&hash=item1a201225cb:g:PP0AAOSwlfxXFsTA

 

[L5wolvesf]

I'd name the bolt 'Fred'. It just sounds like a good old-fashioned bolty name.

One of us should be afraid that we think alike

 

[BillK]

I have two shims that fell out when I pulled the front cover off

I really don't think the shims are needed..........

Did the bolt press on the shims ? They are probably there to take up play and the bolt is meant to press on the shims instead of directly on the shaft. That way it spreads out he force. Several of my machines have that type of adjustment setup on them.

I would almost bet that the ball is spring loaded. Probably stuck from years of sitting. Give it a smack with a hammer and see if it breaks loose.

You should be able to glass bead the one you have and make it look like new.

 

[D45]

Nope, the shims were positioned behind the left/right side of the cover plate

I reinstalled the cover plate without the shims, and see no need to reinstall them

I would reuse the current one, but it's way too long and sticks out too far for my liking

 

[matt_i]

I would put in there a piece of bronze which is a wear-material and not a piece of brass which is a very poor wear-material.

And then trap it via a setscrew and thin jam nut to where you like the friction against down pressure. Ideally you want to be able to move the ram up and down via the handwheel without it having loose or tight spots, and being able to freewheel and crash down against the workpiece or broach, etc.

The spring detent pin seems like a good idea in some ways but the uber hard ball bearing's point contact on the ram seems like a fast way to wear a groove in it.

I believe the presses are shipped with shims in it from the factory. The idea is that when the fit between the ram & body wears out enough and gets loose, the shims can be removed and the press can have a longer life, before the body would have to be machined again.

 

[txvwnut]

I'd name the bolt 'Fred'. It just sounds like a good old-fashioned bolty name.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[PWC Repair]

One of us should be afraid that we think alike

Yep, I'd say several of us. But i was thinking it looked more like an Eddie.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

Bolty McBoltface?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[D45]

I would put in there a piece of bronze which is a wear-material and not a piece of brass which is a very poor wear-material.

And then trap it via a setscrew and thin jam nut to where you like the friction against down pressure. Ideally you want to be able to move the ram up and down via the handwheel without it having loose or tight spots, and being able to freewheel and crash down against the workpiece or broach, etc.

The spring detent pin seems like a good idea in some ways but the uber hard ball bearing's point contact on the ram seems like a fast way to wear a groove in it.

So bronze will not score the metal ram? It is soft enough the wear slowly, but strong enough the hold pressure on the ram?

Is silicon bronze the same? I cannot find a bronze bolt

 

[Lassen Forge]

I'd name the bolt 'Fred'. It just sounds like a good old-fashioned bolty name.

One of us should be afraid that we think alike

I was thinking the same thing.

Yep, I'd say several of us. But i was thinking it looked more like an Eddie.

Bolty McBoltface?

Naw, that's more of a Jake bolt.

Does this officially make it a conspiracy? If so, I'll have to bolt.

 

[Kevin54]

The shims were in it most likely due to the fact that the new plate isn't worn like the original plate was, and tightening things down too tight will result in the ram being tight. If it were me, I would just put a brass bolt in the place of the one that came out of it to minimize wear.

 

[D45]

If it were me, I would just put a brass bolt in the place of the one that came out of it to minimize wear.

Back to a previous question then, will brass be OK or should I find a bronze bolt?

 

[matt_i]

So bronze will not score the metal ram? It is soft enough the wear slowly, but strong enough the hold pressure on the ram?

Is silicon bronze the same? I cannot find a bronze bolt

Steel on bronze is a classic shaft and plain bearing combination used all over throughout history for slow-er turning shafts.

I don't think Silicon Bronze is the same alloy, imo that's more for saltwater corrosion resistance.

The alloy I would use is SAE660/CDA932. In my shop I have a few solid rods so I can custom make bushings to whatever size is necessary in an emergency (typically with standard sizes they are sold from catalogs/makers like Bunting). So I'd turn a solid piece down on the lathe to make a little round cylinder (slug, pellet) and hold it in with a regular steel setscrew.

Absent the lathe, if you can source a flat piece, it cuts and files a lot like aluminum, so shaping a piece to fit down inside the minor diameter of the threads isn't going to be terrible work. Imo it will still work just as well without being a perfect squared cylinder.

Choosing brass isn't the end of the world, its just going to be softer and wear out faster. As much as a typical arbor press gets used you can get a pretty long life from it. Lubricating the ram with oil will also help extend the life of the whole thing, but as usual an open-wet-oily surface typically attracts a lot of dust/grit/swarf that can work as a lapping compound too...so there's a yin and a yang there. Best to keep it out of a welding and grinding area if at all possible, imo.

The last piece of free advice is you now need a lathe. Maximizing use of any press requires umpteen different sized clearance holes and tubes to make sure the force is concentrated where you want it. I think there are sets of parts like those that seem to be quite costly but why bother when you can knock up what you need as you go from cheap scraps

 

[shelteredV]

You guys are all nuts

 

[larry_g]

I would put in there a piece of bronze which is a wear-material and not a piece of brass which is a very poor wear-material.
/QUOTE]

I'm going to disagree with this solution. In my mind that ball plunger is there to add a bit of friction to the ram to keep it in place and not fall. In operation the spring loaded ball will retract and allow the ram to contact the full area of the retaining plate. If you put any rigid bolt or material in there then the force of the ram will only be counteracted by the bolt. Remember there is both an X and a Y force vector in a rack gear.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[bushmechanic]

I'd name the bolt 'Fred'. It just sounds like a good old-fashioned bolty name.

That's what I was going to post: Fred.

 

[D45]

Ok, well I was ready to order something and I went to the garage, thankfully

I thought it measured it and it was 3/8-20.......NOPE

The bolt that was in the center hole is 5/16-18

Also, I put the bolt in the vise and sprayed it with WD40.......about 30 min later I tried using a punch and it would not budge

So, I got out a larger punch and the ball bearing cracked in half........no spring inside the bolt.

It appears as if the bolt was homemade and drilled out, because the hole inside the bolt was not centered and I found a smaller hole, under the area were the ball sat (like a smaller pilot hole)

 

[D45]

I am also finding that there are delrin ball plungers and stainless steel ball plungers

The ball plunger is definitely more appealing to me, rather than using a bolt to ride up against the ram

Looks like it will be trial and error...........based on the weight of the ram, I am going with a "heavy pressure" version

I like the Delrin idea, but think it might wear way too fast

 

[MikeF2316]

Bolty McBoltface?

Boy, there's lots of us nuts on this thread. That's what I was going to say!

 

[APEowner]

For what it's worth, the screws I've seen in that location in other arbor presses were nylon.

 

[matt_i]

FWIW you could call up Dake and ask them what they use, probably buy an OEM part. Or...

http://www.dakecorp.com/manuals

Interestingly they don't have a manual for the compound leverage presses #3, #4, and #5...I believe you have a #2 or #3 based on the holes at the top, I think a pin goes there for the compound action...

 

[D45]

Mine is a 6 ton, #201..........it does not currently have the compound ratcheting parts

 

[D45]

FWIW you could call up Dake and ask them what they use, probably buy an OEM part. Or...

http://www.dakecorp.com/manuals

Interestingly they don't have a manual for the compound leverage presses #3, #4, and #5...I believe you have a #2 or #3 based on the holes at the top, I think a pin goes there for the compound action...

Thanks for the link, none of these have the center hole like I have

Could it be an older model? Could it be a homemade plate cover? Unsure on both

 

[D45]

For what it's worth, the screws I've seen in that location in other arbor presses were nylon.

Now that is an interesting and CHEAP idea

I just wonder how well it would hold up........I might try this first

 

[Roberts210]

I agree that your plate looks suspiciously home made. Do you have the brake for it? What other parts are you missing?

I restored a large Famco press, and fabricated many of the missing parts, but my cover plate was with the press. Mine has two bolts to take up the slack. I just barely tightened them--just snugged 'em up. No special bolts--just semi-spherical ends, and they came with the press and looked original.

Close up of the plate on my Famco. Note it's cast iron and about 1/2" thick.

During operation, some percentage of the downward pressure would vector to horizontal force against that plate, or against the bolt(s).

 

[Roberts210]

I can't remember if there were any wear plates between the bolts and the ram... there might have been, but I am not sure right now and it's too cold to go look.

 

[Roberts210]

YES, there is a wear plate between the bolts on mine and the ram. I was just looking at a picture of the press as it was when I hauled it home. I disassembled it in the back of my truck, in order to clean and move it. Take a look at this photo. You can see the front plate lying upside down on the tailgate, you can see two screw holes for the bolts, and you can see there is room for a wear-plate. The wear-plate itself is lying on one of the legs of the press, where the daisy wheel would go.

 

[matt_i]

I agree that your plate looks suspiciously home made.

I didn't notice this until now. I think this is 100% accurate. I've had roughly 6 Dakes, Atlas and Eames (all part of the same geneaology) arbor presses in and out of the shop over the years. They all had a cast retention plate, approx 1/2" thick with text cast into the surface of it.

 

[Firebrick43]

Irony about Fred is that we have a brief case size bolt organizer at work that we use to PM roller packs/gibs on 4 Warner Swazy slat turns at work. The brief case is named and has been so for 15+ years. Even a name tag stating "my name is Fred".

D45. We have an identical dale arbor press at work, I will look at it when I get there.

 

[engineer2]

Ball-end hex bolts aren't real common, but you can get ball-end allen bolts or ball plunger studs. If you are restoring, you might be able to fabricate your own.

 

[D45]

I ended up buying a 55 cent nylon bolt.......it works and holds the heavy ram in place

The nylon color takes away from the look of the press, but it will work.......do they sell black nylon bolts? Haha