natural gas moving into the area... Need input.

[TommyK]

I would be curious if they would run a 100' and then cap it, 180' away from your house, and just leave it. Somehow I'd be surprised if they agreed to that. No idea....I could be wrong....but I'd be surprised.

You aren't wrong. They will only terminate at a meter.

 

[Fordman7795]

Natural gas is being run down our road next summer. I cant wait. We are on propane currently and it is crazy expensive.

 

[Buckgnarly]

I can not figure out how burning wood is cheaper than gas period . Any time you spend your time getting it , cutting it , cleaning up , etc ,ect can . It's way more.
Your time messing with this is something. , if you took all the time you spent doing what ever for the wood and use it for a second job or work extra for your company or business , your way ahead of the game.
I watch people around here work wk ends all summer gathering wood , splitting it , stacking it, feeding the stove , removing and cleaning the stove and stove pipe .
So let's figure it out.
Gathering the wood 2 days a wk for 4 months =. 32 days @ what at least 8 hrs a day =
256 hrs X the minimum wage of $ 10.00 an hr = $ 2560.00

That's , not your fuel , truck , clean up , repairs , chain saw , etc ,etc.

So how is wood cheaper ?

32 DAYS?!.... are these people using hand saws and mules? We fell, bucked, and hauled 5 cords on state land in about 4 days, all by chainsaw and two guys hauling it to the truck by hand, about 100' from the site.... and I thought we were being slow and lazy! That cost 50 bucks plus gas to heat a whole Winter! Too lazy to do that so.....

We burn 3-4 cords a year to heat our small salt box at 200 (went up this year from 175) delivered split at 18". Takes me about 4 hours to move and stack the old and new wood. Takes about 10 min a day to add, bring in, cleanout ash/etc.
While I was deployed it cost my wife about 200-400 a month in propane from Nov to Mar.

That's 6-800 a season for wood vs 1000 - 2000 for propane.
We do not have NG up here, but I will say no one is burning oil or propane because it's cheaper around here!

 

[Firebrick43]

I can not figure out how burning wood is cheaper than gas period . Any time you spend your time getting it , cutting it , cleaning up , etc ,ect can . It's way more.
Your time messing with this is something. , if you took all the time you spent doing what ever for the wood and use it for a second job or work extra for your company or business , your way ahead of the game.
I watch people around here work wk ends all summer gathering wood , splitting it , stacking it, feeding the stove , removing and cleaning the stove and stove pipe .
So let's figure it out.
Gathering the wood 2 days a wk for 4 months =. 32 days @ what at least 8 hrs a day =
256 hrs X the minimum wage of $ 10.00 an hr = $ 2560.00

That's , not your fuel , truck , clean up , repairs , chain saw , etc ,etc.

So how is wood cheaper ?

Do the people who "work" all summer getting a stash in "work" more at killing their case of beer than cutting? Your "assumptions" are way off. I can process every thing (for my house) for a year in about 12-16 hours though I normally break it up in three or four 4 hour stints. I would cut the wood anyways cleaning up dead fall and storm damage or thinning/culling bad trees out and keeping fence rows cut back. While I would not spend "weeks" cutting wood it's a change of pace from my day job and most of the time is working outside in nature(when the saw isn't going). Working 6-7 days a week leads to burn out.

Also I don't have to pay for a gym membership. I personally cut and split in place in the winter for the next year. Don't have to deal with heavy sweating or pesky insects and ticks. There would be a lot less obesity if more would pick up a maul, shovel, hammer, or hoe.

From your avatar it looks like you have a nice shop and a nice mustang. Wouldn't a efficientcy in town and a smart car be cheaper?

 

[TheEquineFencer]

There would be a lot less obesity if more would pick up a maul, shovel, hammer, or hoe.

From your avatar it looks like you have a nice shop and a nice mustang. Wouldn't a efficiency in town and a smart car be cheaper?

If you start picking up hoe's....you might be out of your shop if you're married....

 

[jlckmj]

You probably are not going to save with NG over your current set up, and it seems like you enjoy supplementing with the wood heat, so by all means continue on.

However, you will not save money with heating oil over NG when the price for heating oil gets up to where it has been in the past. Remember $4.25 diesel fuel about 10 years ago? I think it is going to return with the games that the oil producing nations are playing right now.

Jim

 

[M-technik-3]

You probably are not going to save with NG over your current set up, and it seems like you enjoy supplementing with the wood heat, so by all means continue on.

However, you will not save money with heating oil over NG when the price for heating oil gets up to where it has been in the past. Remember $4.25 diesel fuel about 10 years ago? I think it is going to return with the games that the oil producing nations are playing right now.

Jim

Agreed gas at local pumps here have gone up a quarter since thanksgiving even though oil is steady per a barrel and now with Saudi and Russia being chummy I think we are in for another OPEC slashing output to make some extra cash. Funny they are making plenty at 50-60 a barrel but with all more is always better.

Gas could stay right where it for a few years at $2.25 for 87 octane and I won't complain, much easier on my wallet than the $4.10 we saw for a bit. I did zilch besides work and groceries on the way home from work.

 

[ctfjr]

Use the right numbers in this:

http://www.efficiencymaine.com/at-home/home-energy-savings-program/heating-cost-comparison/

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=987&t=7

The only post in this thread that one needs to read ^^^

The internet is great but most of the posts here speak to comparing two different specific applications (two diff houses, garages, etc) or offering opinions sans facts. The links Showkey provided makes comparing different fuels easy.

To accurately compare the costs of 2 fuels ones needs to first 'normalize' the 'output' you get from them to the same numbers. I use 100,000 btus - its big, its easy. You also need to know the efficiency of each appliance. 95% is easy to obtain for gas today, oil is in the range of 80-85%. Gas is usually sold in units of 100,000 btus (a therm) so to get 100,000 btus of output you would need to burn ~1.06 therms. Multiply that by the cost of a therm of gas and you have your cost of creating 100,000 btus of usuable heat.
Do the same for oil and compare the costs - OR SIMPLY LOOK AT THE LINKS SHOWKEY REFERENCED.

 

[Firebrick43]

If you start picking up hoe's....you might be out of your shop if you're married....

Wife doesn't mind if I use and abuse my hoes. Just as long as I don't bring a dirty hoe in the house. Some times she picks up a hoe as well.

 

[mm08822]

Wife doesn't mind if I use and abuse my hoes. Just as long as I don't bring a dirty hoe in the house. Some times she picks up a hoe as well.

You lucky sob. I bet she even lets you watch when she's got that hoe gettin down and dirty.

 

[mm08822]

Usually gas co wants consumption, otherwise they charge a fee to reclaim their cost of line and meter. Consider changing your hot water heater to ng. That is about as cheap as you can get. Maybe next is a stove.

Save the furnace for later after you have some run time and real costs to compare and the heater is ready to sh*t the bed.

 

[fastbike02]

Around my parts we have the choice of NG, propane, or electric. My personal experience propane is cheaper after I bought my own tank. I use propane for heating, cooking, and water- and burn around 300 gal give or take in a year. I shop around and prebook/pay for my gas in the summer when it's the cheapest (this year I got 300 gal at 1.29 a gal).

 

[TractorJeff]

I read this whole thread and now have a few comments!
The OP stated that he goes to the Reservation to buy his HHO which incurs mileage and labor on his part. (Cost)
Agree with various posters, get them negotiate with a device (Furnace/Hot Water tank).
Agree they will not run the line 100 feet and cap it as they need to recoup cost.
The arguments on Wood processing as posted vary due to the fact that one poster said he is already cutting/trimming, he needs to add that into his wood handling hours/cost.
I grew up on Oil, in the 70's we went to wood as Oil got high in NYS (south of AKRON). As others have said, it WILL go back up as the new Oil Regimes start power playing burning up the Reserves. The current Oil price on the East Coast is based on Home Heating Oil Futures bought back in the Spring! You guys really need to understand the big picture in the Oil Industry!
I currently heat with Wood as primary and NG secondary. As the house gets Insulation/Window upgrades the Wood is slowly becoming the secondary. I get my Wood for free as far as dying, wind blown and kiln dried hardwood timbers. But there is still the labor/maintenance/summer time, winter time handling costs of processing and burning 12/14 face cords associated with this too! A persons age is a big factor also!

 

[Firebrick43]

The arguments on Wood processing as posted vary due to the fact that one poster said he is already cutting/trimming, he needs to add that into his wood handling hours/cost.

So I account for those hours, for what end?? It doesn't change the end amount I pay for heat? Should I account for the hours I spend watching a movie or participating on this forum? What about the hours maintaining my vehicle?

 

[jives]

You forgot the splitter cost.

And back pain medicine. . . and band-aids

 

[bullnerd]

I was in a similar situation about 20 yrs ago. But I didn't have to think for second, I said run it! I was tired of messing with the oil furnace and everything else being electric.

They ran the gas line up to my house and ripped out the underground service to my detatched garage in the process. This is the "call before your dig" company! Love the gas, never a problem and no more oil deliveries.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I don't think you're approaching this decision in the right way.

but it seems to me that with oil i can buy it locally on the rez, and fill my tank as needed.

If I read this correctly, you're able to buy fuel oil on an Indian reservation. Correct?

If that is the case, are you able to by it less expensively than getting from the local non-Indian fuel oil vendor? If so how much?

Do you have to pick up the fuel oil and bring it to your house? Or does your source on the reservation deliver it to your house?

plus my furnace is oil, not propane, so my conversion costs are in the range of $5,000+

Have you gone out and priced everything? What does this all include?

so far this winter, Oil heat has been cheaper than natural gas. my old house was 1400 sq ft. this house is closer to 3K sq ft (the home listing lied) but the oil heat has been cheaper, than natural gas... I was on natural gas in my old house it *****, u get a bill each month and freeze ur *** off. but it seems to me that with oil i can buy it locally on the rez, and fill my tank as needed. alot cheaper... I dunno I feel like their comparisons are flawed, and very misleading.

As another poster pointed out, trying to compare one house versus another house to compare the cost of natural gas (NG) versus fuel oil (oil) is a very flawed approach. The only way you can compare NG vs oil is to compare (1) what you're paying for energy and (2) the efficiency of the device (furnace, boiler, water heater, stove/oven, clothes dryer) that you're burning the fuel in.

British Thermal Units (BTUs) is the standard measure of energy and NG, oil, propane, and electricity can be converted into for cost comparison.

When I say cheaper, natural gas heat and water tank from October to December is $600. new house, electric hot water tank $150 a month for electric, $200 for oil

But you're comparing two different houses ... right?
You're comparing two different time period (years) and likely two different temperatures you experienced ... right?

Isn't this comparing apple to oranges?

For me, being able to heat my house on my budget is more appealing, my monthly income flucuates alot durinmg the winter, NG is a gaurranteed bill each month...

I don't understand your logic here. Most utilities will take your expected gas cost over a year and allow you to pay an average through the year. If the year is colder, you do owe the difference.

But it would seem to me that its easier to budget the same amount each month versus having to buy a load of oil when the tank runs dry.

and regardless what they say on the radio, its not your best energy value, for instance, to keep my old shop at 60F all winter costs 2500-3500/a year, yet to keep that same shop at 65-75 with a wood stove, cost $1000 a year...

Are you comparing the cost of NG versus heating with wood? For unique situations, this is true. But for most people, heating with wood is not an alternative.

i grew up with NG heat.

i plan to die in this house...

but agree the conversion will be more expensive later, but the money just isn't here right now to convert over

If you grew up with NG, what is your objection? The upfront cost to convert to NG?

As I stated above and as a number of other posters have said, its important that you compare the cost of energy of the fuels you have to choose from and the efficiency of the appliances.

I presume that you're heating hot water and powering the stove/oven/clothes dryer with electricity.

The only way that oil and electricity beats NG is if your electric rates are really low and your cost of oil is also extremely low ... likely below market.

In the end you're going to make a decision that fits your personal situation. I just hope you make your decision based on sound reasoning.